Atari's Landfill Adventures, I now have the proof it's true.

[else]

Lets see if Discovery Channels Myth Busters will take this one on....

 

http://dsc.discovery.com/fansites/mythbust...ythbusters.html

 

If you read back in this thread, you will find that they have been emailed at least once if not many more times. They have never responded.

[Inky]

Lets see if Discovery Channels Myth Busters will take this one on....

 

http://dsc.discovery.com/fansites/mythbust...ythbusters.html

 

If you have ever seen the show, you know this isnt the sort of thing they take on.

 

How can you scientifically prove, under a controlled environment, that ET carts are buried in New Mexico?

[Dave Farquhar]

OK, I have to speak up here, as someone who has worked at a newspaper and has a journalism degree.

 

First, calling a newspaper and talking to a reporter or editor won't get you very far. Odds are the reporter who would have covered the story and the editor who would have edited it are both long gone. Journalists generally work for small town newspapers for one of two reasons: To build up a portfolio to attract the interest of a bigger paper somewhere else, or because they're related to the owner of the paper. The former is much more common.

 

The person at the paper you want to talk to is the person at the morgue. The morgue is the newspaper's library, where old clippings are kept. A lot of papers have the morgue computerized now, but something that happened in the early 1980s probably isn't in the computer system.

 

Also, on-location reporting is only necessary for television. Sometimes it's helpful to go to the scene, but that's if time and budgets permit, and if actually seeing the event will add something to the story. The rule of thumb is three sources: If you can get three people to talk to you, then you've got a story. If you talked to them on the phone, that's fine. More sources makes for a better story, but it depends on how busy you are that day. The Alamogordo reporter had a lot more time to dedicate than the NY Times business reporter did, that I'll guarantee.

 

The local account may have gone on a wire service, but when the story involves a large public company known to be in trouble, chances are the wire services (Associated Press, Reuters, and/or United Press International) will have their own reporter cover the story.

 

But here's where I'd suggest researching: http://news.google.com/archivesearch -- Google's newspaper archive. Searching there on "Atari Alamogordo NM" turned up 13 matches. That's a start. Broadening and narrowing it will help. Some of the stories are subscription-only, but some have previews. I've used it to chase down some obscure family history that happened 100 years ago.

 

If I were a journalist covering this, I'd start by digging up whatever contemporary news accounts I could find. Then I'd see if I could track down any of the sources in the original stories. The last two questions in any conversation should be these (in any order): "Is there anyone else you think I should talk to about this?" and "Is there anything you'd like to add?"

 

Talking to the people in power at that town today won't get you far. They may or may not remember, and they don't have anything to gain by talking about an old story that had nothing to do with them.

 

But at any rate, the search on Google tells me this story hit the Philadelphia Inquirer and Miami Herald. Those are two large and respected papers (and they were larger in 1983). That tells me that something happened. I wish I had time to run this down. But I'm sure someone will take this and run with it.

[moycon]

The person at the paper you want to talk to is the person at the morgue. The morgue is the newspaper's library, where old clippings are kept. A lot of papers have the morgue computerized now, but something that happened in the early 1980s probably isn't in the computer system.

 

Ironically, If they want to get with the original reporter they would want to contact the morgue as well.

Edited September 22, 2006 by moycon

[Spud]

The person at the paper you want to talk to is the person at the morgue. The morgue is the newspaper's library, where old clippings are kept. A lot of papers have the morgue computerized now, but something that happened in the early 1980s probably isn't in the computer system.

 

Ironically, If they want to get with the original reporter they would want to contact the morgue as well.

 

Yeah thats what I was thinking as I read it. I hate that she passed, I bet we would have located her by now and maybe learned more.

I know it's a huge thread, probably the biggest on the site from what I've seen. (I'm kind of proud of that ) There is some good reading and opinions scattered throughout it all, also links to pics, videos, and other stuff.

I know some of the links I posted back in the beginning of this thread are no longer good, sorry I needed my ftp space and pulled some off after Stingray hosted it.

 

Some of the ideas we are hearing from newer members have been addressed already so

for those who are newer and havent gone through the whole threadand seen the pics and newspaper storys, check out Stingrays site.

 

http://www.stingraysmadness.com/index.php?...&PAGE_id=96

 

He was kind enough to host all the gathered info we all had, and Bruce Tomlin helped with doing some text transcripts.

 

Good Job with the Google search Dave. I didn't know the story was also in the Philadelphia Inquirer and Miami Herald. We get a little more here and there.

[gdement]

Lets see if Discovery Channels Myth Busters will take this one on....

 

http://dsc.discovery.com/fansites/mythbust...ythbusters.html

 

If you have ever seen the show, you know this isnt the sort of thing they take on.

 

How can you scientifically prove, under a controlled environment, that ET carts are buried in New Mexico?

 

That show is more entertainment than science. They also tried to prove whether Jimmy Hoffa is buried at Giants' Stadium (or whatever it's called), but they didn't really have time to search thoroughly as I recall. I've seen a few episodes with a less than convincing approach and an unsatisfying conclusion - Atari Landfill wouldn't be the first. I think it's up their alley, but it wouldn't yield any meaningful outcome unless they hold up a cement-crusted cartridge at the end.

[Spud]

Ok I bought the Philly story. Very interesting. Maybe we can locate this guy Pete Block guy?

Now I really wish we had found McQuiddy.

 

Philadelphia Inquirer, The (PA)

September 29, 1983

Section: NATIONAL

Edition: FINAL

Page: A01

 

 

A VERY BRIEF VIDEO SALVAGE GAME

Roger Rapoport, Knight-Ridder News Service

 

Atari Inc. of Sunnyvale, Calif., which for about a year has had a hard time selling its video games, is learning that it isn't easy to throw them away, either.

 

In the past five days, the company has dumped about 20 truckloads of video-game cartridges in a landfill near Alamogordo, N.M. As word of the dumping got out, kids in that town of 25,000 began robbing the Atari grave, coming up with cartridges of such games as E.T., Raiders of the Lost Ark and Defender.

Company spokesmen insist they are not throwing away unsold inventory, but rather are discarding defective cartridges and those that were returned by customers. Not true, according to many in the area who say, to their delight, that they have found perfectly usable cartridges.

 

Whatever the case, the company and the operator of the dump site decided Tuesday that enough was enough. What was left of 2,000 cubic yards of cartridges and other equipment was buried under $2,500 worth of concrete.

 

Atari spokesman Bruce Entin said one reason for the dumping was that its plant in El Paso, Texas, about 90 miles from Alamogordo, recently became a center for returned and defective goods. But he said he would not be surprised if some of the dumped cartridges worked.

 

"This is product that is returned by the customer to our remanufacturing facility," he said. "Sometimes buyers erroneously return working merchandise. But the vast majority of what is being buried in New Mexico is damaged."

 

But Sherman Davis, facilities director for another company, Imagic of Los Gatos, Calif., described burying discarded video-game equipment as unusual.

 

"I've never heard of anybody doing that on a mass basis," Davis said. ''We've never done that. I assume that they're just thrown directly in the trash after they've been broken up."

 

Entin said he did not know whether any other Atari trash would be buried at the Alamogordo dump. But he indicated that the company would have to determine where to dispose of products in the future. "This is the first time we've ever used this site in New Mexico," he said.

 

Apparently, Atari chose the Alamogordo dump thinking it was a remote location that would cause few problems. But in recent days the scene assumed Keystone Cops overtones as kids tried to sell cartridges they had found, and police tried to round up the scavenged merchandise.

 

"Atari cartridges began popping up all over town last weekend," said Marian McQuiddy, a reporter for the Alamogordo Daily News who broke the story. ''There were mountains and mountains of cartridges on the floor of the town dump. Some worked and some didn't."

 

Police first became aware of the situation when youngsters began trying to sell cartridges at a local Atari outlet.

 

The police began confiscating the equipment "thinking it was hot merchandise," McQuiddy said.

 

But state law does not prohibit scavenging in New Mexico dumps, and the officers have returned the games to the players lucky enough to find them.

 

"The police have been giggling a lot about this," McQuiddy said.

 

Pete Block, marketing manager for Browning Ferris Industries, which operates the dump, said he felt that the matter was being blown out of proportion. "You're talking to a garbage man. We're quite used to having companies bury surplus material at our waste sites," he said.

 

Some people in the industry, such as Bob Goldberg, marketing manger at SKU, a major software distributor in Berkeley, Calif., indicate that product dumping is not all that unusual.

 

"Almost every company has to get rid of surplus goods from time to time," he said. "Sometimes they will discount them to liquidators at $2 to $3 apiece. Another approach is to barter for media time, (advertising) space or plane tickets. And it's not unheard of for companies to simply trash products. Sometimes that is the cheapest way to go."

[Spud]

I tracked down and emailed the writer of that story to see if maybe there was a photograph with the article. The Miami newspaper site said that photos aren't included in the purchase if there are any in the story.

We'll see what happens.

[2600lover]

Interesting

[Bruce Tomlin]

Lets see if Discovery Channels Myth Busters will take this one on....

 

http://dsc.discovery.com/fansites/mythbust...ythbusters.html

If you have ever seen the show, you know this isnt the sort of thing they take on.

History Detectives on PBS would be much more appropriate, but still unlikely to take it on.

[else]

Here's a somewhat recent snippet I found on Pete Block:

 

Pete Block, retired vice president of corporate communications at BFI and a consultant in suburban Phoenix, said, "They got themselves so extended and they were also somewhat convoluted.

 

[Reuters, 3/12/98 "Waste Mgmt, USA Waste to be scrutinized"]

 

Doing a search on P Block in Arizona turned up:

Peter Block (480) 515-0915 4728 E Melinda Ln, Phoenix, AZ 85050

 

Try not to all call him at once

Edited September 26, 2006 by else

[2600lover]

Did I miss something? Whos Peter Block? Sorry

[+batari]

But state law does not prohibit scavenging in New Mexico dumps, and the officers have returned the games to the players lucky enough to find them.

If the above is still true, the City Manager might have no authority to deny permission to look around at the dump site.

[Spud]

Here's a somewhat recent snippet I found on Pete Block:

 

Pete Block, retired vice president of corporate communications at BFI and a consultant in suburban Phoenix, said, "They got themselves so extended and they were also somewhat convoluted.

 

[Reuters, 3/12/98 "Waste Mgmt, USA Waste to be scrutinized"]

 

Doing a search on P Block in Arizona turned up:

Peter Block (480) 515-0915 4728 E Melinda Ln, Phoenix, AZ 85050

 

Try not to all call him at once

 

Probably better to mail him a letter I'd think.

[iratanam]

Lets see if Discovery Channels Myth Busters will take this one on....

 

http://dsc.discovery.com/fansites/mythbust...ythbusters.html

 

If you have ever seen the show, you know this isnt the sort of thing they take on.

 

How can you scientifically prove, under a controlled environment, that ET carts are buried in New Mexico?

 

I wouldn't say it's not the kinda stuff they take on, I remember a episode where they searched all over a football stadium looking for Jimmy Hoffa. If they'll look for Hoffa they should look for Atari Carts. We all know that finding these Atari Carts are much more important than finding Hoffa

[rbudrick]

Well trash scavenging may not have been prohibited it in 1983, but it may be now. Also, since it's technically not a dump anymore, and possibly a park, legally, then you probably can't just go there with a shovel or backhoe and start digging. Again, I say we need a lawyer to work this with us.

 

But this Peter Block dude sounds like a great source! Who's going to call him now?

 

Besides, landfills can be HUGE. There could easily be 20 feet of trash for acres piled on top of the spot the goods were buried.

 

-Rob

Edited September 27, 2006 by rbudrick

[mos6507]

2000 cubic yards of crap, not counting the concrete. If they were talking 2000 square yards then that's roughly 45 yards. So it's not a stretch to think that the dump site is at least as wide as a square football field (100x100 yards). That shouldn't be too hard to find if no buildings were built on top of it.

 

Also, if the locals got pissed off, closed the landfill, and changed the laws to prevent further corporate dumping, then it's probably just an empty lot like in the photos we're seeing.

 

So if the recent sat images have located the site, I think odds are you'd hit the Atari concrete only a few feet under the dirt if you dug right in the center.

[rbudrick]

So if the recent sat images have located the site, I think odds are you'd hit the Atari concrete only a few feet under the dirt if you dug right in the center.

 

When you consider an entire city's population dumps trash there, along with huge companies like Waste Management, there's no reason that the atari stuff isn't under 30 feet of trash by now. They just keep piling that stuff, you know. What year did they close that place? Think of how many years of trash were dumped on top of it by then. That's a deep pile for sure. I highly doubt they are near the surface, considering how damn deep most landfills are. Most go very deep indeed. Like almost quarry deep.

 

-Rob

[Spud]

I tracked down and emailed the writer of that story to see if maybe there was a photograph with the article. The Miami newspaper site said that photos aren't included in the purchase if there are any in the story.

We'll see what happens.

 

 

It's been a week and no reply at all.

[moppetkid]

Has anyone been in contact with "Atari spokesman Bruce Entin" who is referenced in the story?

 

He's easily findable (google - he still lives in Los Gatos) and I think has been willing to get involved with talking about Atari in the past. He is also an ex-Journalist.

[BigFairy321]

so any updates?

[rbudrick]

(whistles)

 

 

 

 

BUMP

 

 

 

 

(whistles)

 

 

-ROb

[Red 5]

 

Police first became aware of the situation when youngsters began trying to sell cartridges at a local Atari outlet.

 

The police began confiscating the equipment "thinking it was hot merchandise," McQuiddy said.

 

But state law does not prohibit scavenging in New Mexico dumps, and the officers have returned the games to the players lucky enough to find them.

 

"The police have been giggling a lot about this," McQuiddy said.

 

 

If this is true (which it is ) wouldn't there be a police report.

If police reports exists, then can all of us believers start with the 'told ya so's!' ?

[moycon]

 

If this is true (which it is ) wouldn't there be a police report.

If police reports exists, then can all of us believers start with the 'told ya so's!' ?

 

Let us know when you uncover the evidence, You know I won't be holding my breath.

If the police reports don't exist can the non-believers start with the "told ya so's!"?

[else]

If the police reports don't exist can the non-believers start with the "told ya so's!"?

 

Doesn't work that way. From Wikipedia's "Argument from ignorance":

 

"Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence: Not having evidence for something is not proof that something is not or cannot be true. Similarly, merely not having evidence for a particular proposition is not proof that an alternative proposition is instead the case - it is in fact simply lack of evidence, and nothing more."

 

Sorry, but a lack of evidence doesn't prove anything....

Edited October 27, 2006 by else