Tempest rotary controller available soon!

[SwinginDick]

Hi folks,

 

I'm a recent devotee to the Jag and an enormous Tempest fan. I found out that a backdoor was written into the code for a rotary encoder, did a bit of research and discovered that it is quite a simple matter to do. So, I bought a bunch of encoders and some brand new controllers and I'm about to get busy making them up for sale. The hard part at this point is finding a suitable knob. I have some options but I want to keep the cost fairly low while maintaining a good feel.

 

Now, before Tyrant or anyone else who also makes these same types of controllers gets all up and angry, I just want to make it clear that this was something that I figured out pretty much on my own after reading many of the homebrew "on the cheap" controller mods. Let's be honest folks, this isn't rocket science. Anyone with a passing familiarity with digital electronics and who is handy with a soldering iron and a few tools can do this. I saw a lengthy thread from back in November 2004 where Tyrant and others were debating the "fairness" or whatever of other people somehow "ripping" off Tyrant's idea. This isn't really a fair statement - anyone who understands this mod knows that it practically makes itself. There is no secret that this capacity is built into the game and the input spec is pretty clear (Gray code). To be honest, I was really surprised by the tone struck by those who have made these controllers, like there is some kind of ownership ... shouldn't Jeff (Minter) or Atari take that same attitude? It was their idea to include the option in the cart - should we wait around for them to make us proper controllers? C'mon, no one is getting rich selling these things. The tent is big enough for all of us.

 

And, on the contrary, the more of us making essentially the same thing, the better for all the Jag/Tempest fans out there, right? Given the limited production capacity of any of us alone, we will NEVER fill the demand for these things. So lighten up and enjoy the fact that we are (collectively) bringing joy to all these Tempest fans who clearly know what they are missing. That's how I got here - by being a huge fan and wanting to contribute to the cause in a way that I can.

 

Besides, isn't a little competition a GOOD thing? :-)

 

For those that are interested, I attached a zip of some pics of my prototypes. The knob that you see on there is not the final choice as I said above. Just enough to test with my son (gotta get them into the game early!)

rotarycontrollerpics.zip

[jaysmith2000]

Actually Jedi Jeff I believe produced the first rotary and sold it. I think the Tyrant thread in the past was due to a production of a controller VERY similar to what Tyrant had produced. In the end, I think the conversation turned friendly and all was well, but I'd have to look it up again to be sure.

 

Glad to hear you're working on your own, I look forward to seeing your finished product....

[jaysmith2000]

Just checked out the pics, looks great. One thing that I think made Jedi Jeff's controller so unique is it was built into it's own case. Since this controller has already been "done" by both Tyrant and Jonathan you may want to consider doing something different? Just a suggestion, either way it's great to see anything coming out for the Jaggy....

[sega saturn x]

How much were you thinking about charging for one?

Edited May 16, 2005 by sega saturn x

[cobracon]

Lways good to see another person making hardware for the Jag. Good Luck.

[K3V]

Hey Swingin -

 

Are these optical encoders or mechanical? From what I've read, Tyrants have a "clicky" feel to them which I would prefer not to have, since the original Tempest didn't have that. I built an arcade stick and have the old 2600 driving controller in it. If you've got extra encoders I'd like to replace the one I've got if you wouldn't mind selling one separately. Let me know.

 

BTW, these guys sell reproduction Tempest rotary knobs:

 

http://www.oscarcontrols.com/index_knobs.htm

 

$16 each is kind of cost-prohibitive for resale, but maybe you could buy in bulk and get a discount?

 

Good luck with the project!

[SwinginDick]

K3V - no, I looked around for a "proper" encoder with no detents, so the action is smooth. I carefully considered the optical vs. mechanical debate and settled on a mechanical encoder for simplicity's sake. I've worked with optical encoders in the past using them to replace volume potentiometers on high-end preamps - another life! :-) so I'm quite familiar with all of the benefits of using them. However, the Jag doesn't supply enough current to power an encoder, plus I would've had to add a bunch of combinational logic to make the output compatible with the Jag's keyboard strobing. This means adding a power supply to the controller, or stealing power from tht Jag wall wart (which has been done by someone out there) and it just gets ugly real fast. So, I will save that mod for another day - I have a pretty clear idea about how to do it, just gotta get the time.

 

The mechanical encoder doesn't have the inertial feel like the original arcade controller and this is a function of the bearing as well as the fact that there is no practical way to build a flywheel into the controller without significant alterations. However, my initial testing proves that you can certainly get by without that feel. Since there are no detents, the control is smooth and it seems that the T2K "webs" are somewhat smaller anyway - I find that you really don't have to really spin the control wildly to get from one side to another. One thing that is missing in T2K, though, is the high-pitch "chirp" that the arcade machine generates when the shooter moves between lanes. Ahh, well, we can't have everything.

 

Thanks for the tip for Oscar Controls - already contacted them and they don't discount very deeply in bulk. I'm not sure if the replica knob is the right way to go anyway. I'm finding that a narrower barrel on the knob allows for better control and faster movements when necessary especially since I have no flywheel. The larger the diameter, finer the control but it becomes more difficult to get around the web quickly. Only testing (and a lot of research) will get me to the right knob.

 

sega - I'm thinking about charging $40 - $50 per controller, including shipping within the US. The final price is going to depend on the cost of the knob.

 

jaysmith - Yes, I am considering a separate stand-alone controller with a heavy flywheel optical encoder. The truth is, it would be pretty expensive and I'm not sure if it would really be any better than this one. Something to think about though.

 

 

Thanks to all of you, by the way, for the words of encouragement. I appreciate it! :-)

[Iron Draggon]

Well I have to agree, if any controller that's essentially a standard Jag controller or Jag Pro controller with a rotary knob built into it is gonna be called a foul ball because it's already been done before, then the people who've already done controllers like that are being very selfish. Number one most people want a rotary controller that looks like it was made by Atari themselves, and number two the people who have already made these types of controllers are never gonna fill the demand for them all by themselves. I don't even keep up with the Jag scene very much, and yet even I know that these controllers are typically only made "if enough people request them" and the rest of the time it's "tough luck, try ebay". Well you know, they cost way too much on ebay. There will always be people like me who don't keep up with the Jag scene at all who will find these things on ebay and bid them out of sight because they have no clue what's going on in the Jag world. And those who make them to sell them on ebay are never gonna turn down obscene amounts of money for them.

 

So there does seem to be alot of selfish greed amongst those who have already made these controllers, arrogantly denouncing any and all of their competitors as imposters invading their turf. Hey, you know what? Unless you patent your design, you don't own the rights to it. And you're never gonna get a patent for a design that uses any official Atari parts without their express consent to do so, which you will never get from them. So just get over it already. So you were the first to do it, hooray for you. So you think you did it better, hooray for you again. But lose the attitude that you own all rights to all controllers that look just like yours do, because you don't. You're just a modder, and in the world of software us modders know that we don't own the rights to anything. That's why we can't even sell our mods, we can only give them away for free. So if you have found a way to actually make a small profit from your hardware mods, just enjoy it while it lasts and get over it when it's all over for you, or start making more of your own designs instead of just complaining that now someone else is doing it too. If you were filling the demand for them all by yourself, there wouldn't be anyone else doing it too. You'd have the market all to yourself like you want. So stop whining about it and just do it, and just shut up about your competition. They have just as much of a right to make their own mods as you do, and if they look just like yours, so what? They can't get a patent on them anymore than you can either.

[jonathan ascough]

well I make rotary controllers for the jag both a standard and a pro rotary and I wish you all the best. Some people did complain that It was a bit of a waste using a pro but these controllers are not as rare as people might think are a bit more comfortable to use and all the buttons are used. The dispute between myself and Tyrant ended well and I think it is a shame that he is not making them as well. Sogood luck to you and I wish you all the best :wink:

[Serblander]

Hi SwinginDick

 

I wish you the best in making something new(ish) for the Jag. From the point of view of a Jag collector who already has a Rotary-controller (Jonathans), i would primarily be interested in purchasing one of yours if it were somewhat different to the ones that are already available. While the one i have/use is EXCELLENT!!!!, i have no need to buy another - Unless - it is different and therefore more collectible (for me at least)! Just my AU .02 cents worth from a random Jaggy lover.

 

Either way, all the best with your project(s).

[justclaws]

Hello,

I'm a recent devotee to the Jag and an enormous Tempest fan. I found out that a backdoor was written into the code for a rotary encoder, did a bit of research and discovered that it is quite a simple matter to do. So, I bought a bunch of encoders and some brand new controllers and I'm about to get busy making them up for sale. The hard part at this point is finding a suitable knob. I have some options but I want to keep the cost fairly low while maintaining a good feel.

Sounds good.

I recently bought one of Jonathan's Pro controller rotaries, (same price

as his regular rotary, so I thought I might as well) and it's very nice. It

is also the type which gives feedback "click" as it rotates, which is fine.

Good luck, and the more Jag projects the better!

Cheers,

JustClaws.

[K3V]

SwinginDick was kind enough to send me one of his rotary encoders to use in the controller I built, and I think you guys will be happy with its performance. Nice and smooth, more responsive than the Atari 2600 driving controller, but not overly sensitive like some optical encoders are with T2K. Nice selection.

[atarilovesyou]

...now what I'd like to know is if it's possible for someone to mod a rotary controller for the PS2, to use with their Atari Anthology Tempest...I'm pretty sure it can't be done, but what do you think?

[jesusc]

I'd definetly be interested in one of these.

[sega saturn x]

40 or 50? Thats to rich for my blood.

[Atari_Jaguar]

I will buy one as soon as it's available. I want my Tempest time to be quality time.

[SwinginDick]

Well folks, they are available (and have been for some time, actually). There are two still available on eBay (look for "Jaguar rotary controller") but the auction ends in a couple of hours. After that, you will be able to get them from Dan at The GOAT Store (http://www.goatstore.com/).

 

I'm also in the process of setting up a website (http://www.chaosreins.com) which will detail this controller as well as others I hope to make available later this year (a NUON spinner for Tempest 3000, a more "arcade-quality" spinner for the Jag not based on a modified Jag controller and ultimately a dedicated MAME controller). But first I have to fight with HTML and get the site up. Arrghh! Dammit Jim, I'm a EE not a webmaster!

 

Meantime, for those of you who have extra Jag controllers hanging around, I am going to be starting a program where you send me a Jag controller and $35, and I will modify it with the encoder and knob and send it back to you USPS Priority Mail. If you are interested in this option, drop me a line at [email protected]

 

Thanks folks!

 

-SwinginDick

www.chaosreins.com

[Clint Thompson]

Where d'pics where d'pics?

[SwinginDick]

Pics attached.

 

Pretty standard in appearance. Worthy of note is that the encoder is "detentless" so the spin is smooth, not notchy.

 

Enjoy.

 

-SwinginDick

www.chaosreins.com

Controller_Pics.zip

[Clint Thompson]

Thanks... looks good btw!

[geosteve]

This looks cool,

 

Hey let me know about that NUON spinner for T3K :!: I'll get one! I'm even located in central New England so that's gotta be somewhere near Quaint

[SwinginDick]

I'm even located in central New England so that's gotta be somewhere near Quaint

 

My friend, its all quaint!

 

Check my site periodically for the availability of the controller.

[Goochman]

What else besides T2K makes use of this?

 

Any option to get a 'dented' knob?

[SwinginDick]

Not useful for anything else, just T2K.

 

In theory, I could get a similar encoder, but with the detent option. It would be a "special order" in that I don't have any on hand and I have to purchase a small quantity. It would be a little more money because I have to buy a different encoder. Another option is to buy one of Jon Ascough's controllers - I think he uses a detented encoder; you can find them on eBay. If you don't want to buy one of his and you are really hell-bent on this, drop me a line at [email protected] and we can work something out.

 

-Rick

www.chaosreins.com

[Tyrant]

Im rather late chiming in on this thread, since I've been kinda out of the proverbial loop for a while, but I'd just like to defend myself on the argument I had with Jonathan Ascough, and its resolution, as it seems some people are rather misinformed.

 

When he started making his rotaries, he was not a member here, and the only contact I (or afaik anyone else in the jag community) had with him was via eBay. His eBay history showed that he had bought one of my controllers second hand from someone else, and only a week or two later began selling his own, which looked externally identical, in quite surprising numbers. I was therefore quite rightly concerned that he had taken a design I put significant effort into (locating parts, working out how to attach the encoder into a large void in the front of the case, etc), and was mass producing it for significant proffit without so much as even letting me know.

 

Please also remember that at the same time, people external to the Jag scene were buying prototype disks of Soul Star and selling badly copied cdr's of them on ebay for several hundred pounds each. Which caused significant reaction in the community since apart from being illegal, it is quite immoral and could have hurt us all, since the copyright owners of Soul Star are very protective, and I believe, the person who leaked the original prototype disks could still get in legal hot water from it.

 

After Jonathan Ascough joined AtariAge and we had a discussion on the subject, partly on the forum, partly by email, I learnt that he was not infact a cruel heartless pirate external to the community out to rip us all off, and that his design was developed independantly, based on a different revision of the Jag controller, with its own unique challenges and solutions. Because of that I issued a full formal appology, and have no hard feelings towards him at all.

 

My issue was not that he created something similar to me, my issue was that it looked like he was somebody who had taken something I created, and mass produced it for proffit. Once it became clear that that was not the case, the issue melted away and I have the same fondness and respect for him that I do for everyone here.