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emkay

Hardsynth

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According to the theme from the 24h compo at ATARIAREA: "SADNESS", I did some changes on an old testtune "funeral". Only lead-in and lead-out are the same...
I named the result "synth", because the main voice is build with different filter and pokey settings, just to have different "sounding colors".
The tune is very repetivite, to show that there are no dropouts in the notes, and the bass is always stable and "deep".

a.s.o.

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[quote name='emkay' date='Wed Apr 20, 2005 11:16 AM']According to the theme from the 24h compo at ATARIAREA:  "SADNESS", I did some changes on an old testtune "funeral". Only lead-in and lead-out are the same...
I named the result "synth", because the main voice is build with different filter and pokey settings, just to have different "sounding colors".
The tune is very repetivite, to show that there are no dropouts in the notes, and the bass is always stable and "deep".

a.s.o.
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[/quote]
This one has some really cool sounds.
Maybe you (or some else) should start build up an instrument library for rmt.
Could be very usefull I guess.

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Just to have a final roundup...a more different (and last one) of "Funny Step"...

btw.... it's always one pokey at single VBI speed ...hmmm ... where have i read that already ? ;)

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....WOW, amazing.

today I downloaded the songs, and tested them on the real hardware. It's very impressive. Especially the last: imagine your at a final boss stage of a game, and you see a monstrous machine coming towards you, shooting beams and stuff like that.

emkay: is this RMT music? If yes, could you post the RMT files.

here is a recording I made today: the real hardware playing the FSR song:

[url="http://www.phys.uu.nl/~bpos/mp3/1.mp3"]http://www.phys.uu.nl/~bpos/mp3/1.mp3[/url]

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[quote name='analmux' date='Sun May 15, 2005 3:27 PM']....WOW, amazing.

today I downloaded the songs, and tested them on the real hardware. It's very impressive. Especially the last: imagine your at a final boss stage of a game, and you see a monstrous machine coming towards you, shooting beams and stuff like that.

emkay: is this RMT music? If yes, could you post the RMT files.

here is a recording I made today: the real hardware playing the FSR song:

[url="http://www.phys.uu.nl/~bpos/mp3/1.mp3"]http://www.phys.uu.nl/~bpos/mp3/1.mp3[/url]
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[/quote]


Ofcourse it's pokey music.... But, why is the MP3 so jumpy?

When listening to the tune inside RMT, you may recognize [b]why [/b]tunes like this cannot be done better in RMT itself... and, why it is very hard to do such tunes within.
I think, the tune does proof, that there are many unused "powers" of the pokey

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...by the way, thanks for the rmt files. I'm especially interested in the instrument settings. It's amazing how a simple 50 Hz programming can give you interesting sounds.

It sounds a lot different in the RMT editor (more crappy i.m.h.o.), but very promising on real hardware.

I think you can even use it for fatter sound-effects (in a game).

...another thing: It's always good to care about NTSC machines as well: will it sound comparable on 60 Hz machines?? That's very important to me.

...maybe you can emulate 60 Hz programming on a 50 Hz machine, by using DLIs that call the RMT engine, instead of VBIs. Then the DLIs should be triggered on different lines in different frames.

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[quote name='analmux' date='Sun May 15, 2005 5:27 PM']

I think you can even use it for fatter sound-effects (in a game).

[/quote]

Well... According to a shortly released game, I made some "enhanced" FX (the attachment)... they are a bit more "fat" in sounding.

[quote]...another thing: It's always good to care about NTSC machines as well: will it sound comparable on 60 Hz machines?? That's very important to me.

...maybe you can emulate 60 Hz programming on a 50 Hz machine, by using DLIs that call the RMT engine, instead of VBIs. Then the DLIs should be triggered on different lines in different frames.
[/quote]

When it comes to music, you would have to do a compromise. Combining a 50Hz Tune with a G2F Picture will never be suitable on 60Hz. The compromise will always be a faster played tune when using 60Hz. Perhaps one could do a counter to stop playing the VBI every VBI Cycle to have the runtime speed of 50Hz?



Your Recording. If is it done with a windows PC, adjusting the hardware acceleration type (no - less - more - full) in the Control Center, could help.

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On the attic I found an old vinyl with a C64 recording on it..... I could only save a small loop and it is very scratchy .....


[attachment=34319:attachment]

;)


OK... the scratch is build intentionally. The cause for this short thing ist to show the endless loop without any dropouts in the played notes...

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Different octaves need different filter offsets...
This test uses 4 different filter settings...

[attachment=34365:attachment]


Perhaps it would help to see how the filters and FX are used in SID-Trackers...

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It actually seems easier to create a song with predefined soundings, than to re-create sounds for an existing tune....

This one has a better beginning... imho

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I would say...
This one proves POKEY the ability to play every "8bit" sounding-style of the past....

EDIT: The "conversion" is done with one simple AUDCTL setting. Some of the sounds have a different "sounding-colour" due to the buggy emulation , that makes it hard to get "real" sounds, but there ist nothing not to manage ;)

And I wonder, why the response to this is rather low, because it does show sounds, that no one did before, because POKEY has some register problems, which seem not to be a problem here ...
:? ;)
Sounding abit like "NES" and a bit like "SID" with some typical SID FX, it is another "unique piece" on the A8.

Using those sounds creating "new" music will give a full "new sounding world" to A8 Musicians. Hopefully sometimes a fully POKEY-supporting Tracker with bug-free sounding will be available.... please think about that the "Demo-Scene" is still alive and people like to work on "those old machines" to prove their abilities.... But, to take any benefit to the A8, [b]the PC Tools have to work properly[/b].

Btw: Can someone imagine, some Guy is doing some very good Musik on a "A8" that may sound more interesting than on C64 to listeners of the Demoscene?
;) Edited by emkay

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This is a bit more experimental (again)... with different styles ...

A bit SID
A bit "Capcom" Style
A bit "NES"

... :ponder:

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For comparison I've made a 15kHz version of the Zelda tune.

I've used generator A instead of C for the bass notes to give a more stable sounding. A negative effect: I had to transpose the melodies of the second (weird) part a whole octave down, to avoid heavy detuning.

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[quote name='analmux' date='Thu May 26, 2005 2:34 PM']For comparison I've made a 15kHz version of the Zelda tune.

I've used generator A instead of C for the bass notes to give a more stable sounding. A negative effect: I had to transpose the melodies of the second (weird) part a whole octave down, to avoid heavy detuning.
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[/quote]


here some changes....
As you can hear, the pitch can tune itself "in & out" when using filters at 15kHz...
The biggest problem here is the final "volume-finetuning", because inside the emulation it sounds still different..... and though it's a bit experimental
:)
The RMT is included... maybe it gives you ideas :)

.... don't forget: the tune doesn't take advantage of the 1,79MHz features nor of the 16 bit... Edited by emkay

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But now the whole tune is f*cked up. I'm sorry, but you have sacrificed the purity of the music for gaining some synth.

[color=red]EDIT:[/color]
15kHz is not always the solution. Except for the unstable bass I prefer the 64kHz version of the Zelda-tune. However your Space Harrier tune seems to be very good in 15kHz.

---------------

Suppose you want to write a game which contains songs of different music styles: some suitable for 15kHz, and others suitable for 64kHz.

Then you also want to have some sound effects: maybe you can reserve 1 channel at 1.79 MHz for sfx, and the rest of the channels 15 or 64 kHz depending on the song. Edited by analmux

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[quote name='analmux' date='Fri May 27, 2005 2:01 PM']But now the whole tune is f*cked up. I'm sorry, but you have sacrificed the purity of the music for gaining some synth.

[/quote]

Sorry, but that's the goal of the thread: Using synth, optimizing it and build usable instruments...

[quote]
[color=red]EDIT:[/color]
15kHz is not always the solution. Except for the unstable bass I prefer the 64kHz version of the Zelda-tune. However your Space Harrier tune seems to be very good in 15kHz.

[/quote]

Space Harrier was intended as "Synth" and I know the original.

[quote]
Suppose you want to write a game which contains songs of different music styles: some suitable for 15kHz, and others suitable for 64kHz.

Then you also want to have some sound effects: maybe you can reserve 1 channel at 1.79 MHz for sfx, and the rest of the channels 15 or 64 kHz depending on the song.
[right][snapback]862651[/snapback][/right]
[/quote]



You might do so .... But it's not the goal of my proposal.

When it comes to tunes with your "Zelda" style, POKEY is able to do 15kHz PLUS 16 Bit (with 1,79MHz clocking)...
If RMT was supporting 16 bit, I would have done such a test-song...
So you would have the stable 15khz bass, some nice percussion and a main voice with a 16 Bit resolution at the same time....

BTW: where to listen to the original... maybe i'll do some "more fitting" sounds with the RMT[i] features[/i].

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Some work on the main voice of the Zelda tune....


BTW: When I heared first the tune here, I thought I know the notation.... Yeah, It's simple: It's the melody of one of the Dune Movie compositions. I heared it in a "Theme" on C64 either.

Just another "wining" ;) .... The VOICE, even if nothing special in POKEY usage, sounds different inside RMT.
This time it seems to be a timing problem only. So, to enhance the main voice, I tried to use Vibrato "3".... so while it sounded inside the editor better, it got even worse "outside".

EDIT:

Tune changed in the main voice again.
It's really a lucky thing, to hear the stable sounds, because: If the sounds are stable, they can be [i]threated[/i] until they sound as the musician likes them to sound ;) (keeping in mind, that emulation differs from the original).
It is possible to modify the filtered voice, and every time the complex thing is played correctly.
@raster
If you read the topic, please have a look at the filter instruments. The complex ones start with playing the highest tone possible. The offset is very low between the channels then and it is one way to avoid "not played notes" and to have complex filter-FX stable. Edited by emkay

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Well, instead of turning to 15 kHz isn't it an option to just stay in 64 kHz and use a 16-bit channel for (deeper) bass notes??

....not that RMT does support 16bit bass, but maybe this is also a very useful pokey configuration???

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