emkay Posted August 7, 2005 Author Share Posted August 7, 2005 I like dramatic songs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
analmux Posted August 7, 2005 Share Posted August 7, 2005 Hello all, I'm just back from my summer-break-three-week-trip through europe, (sitting in an internet bar now), my adsl internet connection is gone.....but I'll be back soon, in this thread f.e. to post some new stuff in the meantime: Emkay, just keep on pushing RMT and the machine cheers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emkay Posted August 7, 2005 Author Share Posted August 7, 2005 Hello all, I'm just back from my summer-break-three-week-trip through europe, (sitting in an internet bar now), my adsl internet connection is gone.....but I'll be back soon, in this thread f.e. to post some new stuff Nice to read (let your DSL Service repair quickly ) in the meantime: Emkay, just keep on pushing RMT and the machine cheers 906075[/snapback] I'll do my very best Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emkay Posted August 8, 2005 Author Share Posted August 8, 2005 Again a version which is more fun (to me at least ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
analmux Posted August 8, 2005 Share Posted August 8, 2005 Now, hear this testrecording: it's a pokey playing triangle waves with 2 combined voices, that's all I have to say. maybe someone can guess how I did it http://www.phys.uu.nl/~bpos/mp3/triangles.mp3 ...note: the fact that I didn't just post a .xex of this can be explained by this: when I do this in the emulator it just remains plain silent 889375[/snapback] I know how it's done because I wrote this demo a while back. It's done the same way as the sawtooth, except you turn off the filter and leave both voices on. The problem is that it's very quiet (and the output has a large DC offset, which makes it "pop" when you start and stop notes, but there are ways to control that). This demo is all 60Hz Pokey programming: -Bry 893616[/snapback] Why is the DC offset that large, and how to control it?? In the "violin of doom"-testtune (where I changed the sawtooth to triangle) you clearly hear that when triangle sound is played the rest of the channels are more quiet, which is a very disturbing effect. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
analmux Posted August 8, 2005 Share Posted August 8, 2005 Okay, I've got 2 final versions here of the Sonic II tune: please take a listen to the intro part and say which of the two tunes (scheef4.xex or scheef5.xex) is most 'in tune' (it's very subtle). Me myself cannot make a decision. The problem is the 1.79 MHz filtered voice (sawtooth) that plays the fast high notes. Scheef4.xex is adjusted slightly lower than should be, but Scheef5.xex is adjusted slightly higher than should be.... !Note: this tune is written for 50hz, on 60hz it gets nervous (Maybe some like to try it on a real machine) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emkay Posted August 9, 2005 Author Share Posted August 9, 2005 The problem is the 1.79 MHz filtered voice (sawtooth) that plays the fast high notes. Scheef4.xex is adjusted slightly lower than should be, but Scheef5.xex is adjusted slightly higher than should be.... 5 is the better one (imho). BTW 1.79MHz. I tried to put a part into the Rumble tune with it, but the result even didn't fit everytime. It seems, for further projects, it is better to drop all tries with making melodies with it, until this f**king emulation-libraries are corrected. The main problem is that the 1.79MHz sounds even different inside RMT , in the A8 emulator & on the real machine. So you can waste "weeks" of time to find a proper sound. But 1.79MHz is still great for using it as "hifi" percussion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
analmux Posted August 9, 2005 Share Posted August 9, 2005 (edited) another version: schraeg I took scheef5.rmt and instead of tuning the 1.79MHz instruments a little bit up, I've tuned all other instruments a little bit down (with command 4 or 'table of pitches'), because they are 15kHz voices, the tunability has a (hopefully) higher resolution than 1.79MHz sound. It still isn't the final solution, I think I'll use scheef5.rmt for my final purposes (wink to Emkay) but you now can hear that the intro part sounds 'in tune' enough. Off course the initial tuning problem is the fault of RMT, which can't handle 1.79MHz notes correctly (there isn't an accurate enough 1.79MHz note2pitch conversion). Edited August 9, 2005 by analmux Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emkay Posted August 9, 2005 Author Share Posted August 9, 2005 (edited) another version: schraeg I took scheef5.rmt and instead of tuning the 1.79MHz instruments a little bit up, I've tuned all other instruments a little bit down (with command 4 or 'table of pitches'), because they are 15kHz voices, the tunability has a (hopefully) higher resolution than 1.79MHz sound. It still isn't the final solution, I think I'll use scheef5.rmt for my final purposes (wink to Emkay) but you now can hear that the intro part sounds 'in tune' enough. Off course the initial tuning problem is the fault of RMT, which can't handle 1.79MHz notes correctly (there isn't an accurate enough 1.79MHz note2pitch conversion). 907450[/snapback] Idea: Have you tried to play the "song" one step later? It's because the initial of a filter voice (prepare-time) takes a step too long. BTW: Do you have the time to record the latest "Turrican" the "Mayonnaise" & the "Rumble-fun" ? Would be nice, because "kohina" is wating Edited August 9, 2005 by emkay Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
analmux Posted August 9, 2005 Share Posted August 9, 2005 Idea: Have you tried to play the "song" one step later?It's because the initial of a filter voice (prepare-time) takes a step too long. I don't understand how that should help....but I could try things. BTW: Do you have the time to record the latest "Turrican" the "Mayonnaise" & the "Rumble-fun" ? Would be nice, because "kohina" is wating 907455[/snapback] Okay, I think some time this evening.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
analmux Posted August 10, 2005 Share Posted August 10, 2005 New mp3 recordings of emkay's experiments: http://www.phys.uu.nl/~bpos/mp3/emkay_rmt_turrican.mp3 http://www.phys.uu.nl/~bpos/mp3/emkay_rmt_mayonaise.mp3 http://www.phys.uu.nl/~bpos/mp3/emkay_rmt_rumble_fun.mp3 (turrican tune is updated again) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emkay Posted August 10, 2005 Author Share Posted August 10, 2005 New mp3 recordings of emkay's experiments: http://www.phys.uu.nl/~bpos/mp3/emkay_rmt_turrican.mp3 http://www.phys.uu.nl/~bpos/mp3/emkay_rmt_mayonaise.mp3 http://www.phys.uu.nl/~bpos/mp3/emkay_rmt_rumble_fun.mp3 (turrican tune is updated again) 908205[/snapback] Heck ... that "rumble fun" is like a drug if it's played on the real thing Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emkay Posted August 10, 2005 Author Share Posted August 10, 2005 Now something groovy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emkay Posted August 12, 2005 Author Share Posted August 12, 2005 OK.. Finally an update to the Giana tune. It's the last testtune from me using RMT with the actual possibilites... It doesn't even make sense to put another song in here... It's not because I'm bored or resignating... It's simply that, all RMT-possible (*) is shown now, the tunes I am doing/converting are not interesting for anyone & no software is available to do something new. * RMT & the buggy libraries are tricked out in almost every way, as far as possible, though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heaven/TQA Posted August 13, 2005 Share Posted August 13, 2005 thanks for your great efford put into RMT... hope raster has a lot of input (and of course others...not just analmux and you...) what about stressing now TMC2.0???? really? Jaskier would be glad... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heaven/TQA Posted August 13, 2005 Share Posted August 13, 2005 and thanks for giana...boy...haven't heard this song for years... i can see the title screen in front of me... (the scrolling level map writing GIANA SISTERS....) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
raster/c.p.u. Posted August 15, 2005 Share Posted August 15, 2005 thanks for your great efford put into RMT... hope raster has a lot of input (and of course others...not just analmux and you...) No, I haven't other inputs. I think RMT is now in stable and usable state and I hope no only me will use it for making music/sounds for games, demos, etc... And I want send word to all critic men: Maybe RMT isn't ideal (nobody is perfect ) and doesn't exploit all POKEY capabilities ... So, anyone can make better tracker with features at pleasure! But, personally, I believe in music capabilities of good musicians more than sound capabilities of POKEY. what about stressing now TMC2.0???? really? Jaskier would be glad... Ehm... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
miker Posted August 15, 2005 Share Posted August 15, 2005 (edited) No, I haven't other inputs. I think RMT is now in stable and usable state and I hope no only me will use it for making music/sounds for games, demos, etc... I think it's still one missed. RMT is Windows based tracker, right? It reminds me of FastTracker2.x. I would be glad if you could add the following feature: Let's say I want to change effect/volume/whatever walue. Now (in v.1.1.9 IIRC) I have to use certain key x times to put the cursor in desired place. Can't it be done with a mouse? E.g. I click at parameter "aa" and now I may change its value from "xx" to "yy" (no matter which button - may be RMB). It may sound stupid but lack of this feature refrains me from using RMT. Am I that spoilt? Edited August 15, 2005 by miker Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
raster/c.p.u. Posted August 16, 2005 Share Posted August 16, 2005 Let's say I want to change effect/volume/whatever walue. Now (in v.1.1.9 IIRC) I have to use certain key x times to put the cursor in desired place. Can't it be done with a mouse? Hmmm... Ok. I will thinking about it. It may sound stupid but lack of this feature refrains me from using RMT. Oh, It's a pity. Ok. Please, keep your patience (and compose musics in other Atari trackers meanwhile.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emkay Posted August 16, 2005 Author Share Posted August 16, 2005 Supplemental Here a "Rumble" Version with some help of Analmux plus some volume corrections. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emkay Posted August 26, 2005 Author Share Posted August 26, 2005 Seems I'm masochistic ... and did another conversion, of one of my most beloved AMIGA tunes. The only reason was, that it is a 10 minute conversion. Not perfect at all, but it shows clearly the benefits of a "full working" pokey-synth tracker. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
analmux Posted August 26, 2005 Share Posted August 26, 2005 (edited) Does anyone know these sounds ?? Edited August 26, 2005 by analmux Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emkay Posted August 26, 2005 Author Share Posted August 26, 2005 Does anyone know these sounds ?? 919094[/snapback] Particular the 3rd one is very "original" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bryan Posted August 26, 2005 Share Posted August 26, 2005 Why is the DC offset that large, and how to control it?? In the "violin of doom"-testtune (where I changed the sawtooth to triangle) you clearly hear that when triangle sound is played the rest of the channels are more quiet, which is a very disturbing effect. 906975[/snapback] Because of how the signal is generated. When you have 2 very high frequencies interacting like this, you normally would hear nothing. When the 2 signals are in phase, they are simply added and produce a 50/50% square that is too high to be heard, so it can be considered a flat PWM signal. When the 2 signals are out of phase, they cancel each other out, and also produce a 50% flat signal. The reason there is output is because Pokey uses a crude resistor ladder for volume, so the 2 out of phase signals do not cancel at 50% amplitude like the in-phase signals do, so the output ramps between 2 voltages, producing a triangle. Okay, now to the popping... With Pokey, silence is a voltage level of 0, and output always alternates between 0 and some positive voltage. Well, our triangle output moves around the 50% mark, so there's a pop when it starts, and when it stops and drops back to 0. The trick is to keep the output near 50% when the tirangle wave is off so we only have one pop at the beginning. There are 2 ways to do this: 1. Lock the volume of the voices being used to produce the triangle at around 6 between notes. 2. Set the channels to the same output frequency between notes, so the wave stops oscillating. I used the 1st method in my Pac-Man tune, but the 2nd actually works better. -Bry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
analmux Posted August 26, 2005 Share Posted August 26, 2005 @ Bry thanks for explaining. I still don't understand it all, but try to later. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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