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Atari Announces Flashback 2.0


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Curt, ahow bout a picture of the circuit board? :)

Hell, we'll put the cartridge connector on sideways if we have to, or do the raised mushroom thing (a la 32x)  :D

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Soon... Still an ugly wirewrap mess right now... last review spec'd boards should be finished for the PCB's and on hand at E3.

 

 

 

 

 

Curt

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Adding a slot doesn't affect copyright law in any way...it just voids the warrenty.

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Precisely... makes the community happy (it'll work with real carts, you'll have to disable "Gizmo" the MMU/Menu chip inside to allow for external carts, but you could also do a nice ribbon cable and cart connector inside, put a Kroc cart into it and make your own reprogrammable Flashback 2.0

 

and it makes Atari happy since it wont have a customer support nightmare to deal with people with non-work carts or erratic working carts calling for support, especially since the current Atari never made any money on the sale of those carts, so it would be like they were losing money to support cartridges out of the box. Its a win-win for both side, hence the reason for the design.

 

 

 

Curt

 

 

 

 

 

 

Curt

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Is it so hard to just release the Atari 2600 again?

 

I mean we all want it, is it cause they want to package 40 games with it?

 

Why not re-release the actual Atari 2600 and make some super cartridge with it that has 40 games?

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That's Exactly what I would do. Then they could release a new multi-cart every year at christmas time.

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I know. We could simply be done with the whole thing once and for all.

 

Just release the unit again. Make it a cosmetically different maybe but that would solve all the problems.

 

Re-release the games too. Like the Gameboys Classic NES series. Some of those are selling for $10.

 

Atari could sell the games again with replica retro-boxes and sell em for 10 or 5 bucks.

 

I like the idea of an official Atari game every christmas too...

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I really honestly cannot figure out why they aren't doing this. It seems so easy. I mean package the thing with a 40+ retrocart and people will buy it. If it plays the old games some people will think "cool, I see those games at Value Village and garage sales all the time" and they'll buy it. If people like us who still have collections know that we can have yet another real version of the 2600 we'll buy it. Then they are left with the ability to continue to sell "Super carts" all the time. Most pople will be much more likely to buy their friends a $5- 10 super cart than to pick them up a whole $30 system for Christmas.

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I would have thought Curt would have suggested that. He would be with a meeting with them and say, "Why don't you just re-release the system for heaven sake?"

 

Oh, well. Maybe version 3.0 will be the "real" thing.

 

I'll still probably get this version though, I stayed very far away from the first release.

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This topic has come up numerous times already. They probably don't want a cartridge port because if one was included, people would be getting these old carts at flea markets/garage sales that have gone through who knows what, and then try plugging them into the console which could result in a blank screen because of dirty contacts, etc. Most people don't know how to clean contacts, or opening the cartridge to reseat the ROM, or who knows how many things can go wrong with a 25 year old cartridge.

 

Infogrames doesn't want to deal with this problem of people calling them asking why a 25 year old cartridge doesn't work. Their customer service phone lines would be tied up with so many people trying to get ancient cartridges to work that they would be overwhelmed. If that happens, you bet no more Flashbacks will be released and/or it would be discontinued. They'd have to cut the losses because too much time would be spent with these people (time=money) and from people returning their Flashback 2s claiming they're defective because it doesn't work with their ancient cartridges. (Chances are, it's the cart that's the problem) Infogrames would end up sitting on a pile of 'defective' Flashback 2s that actually work fine and end up having to sell them at a lower price (=lower profits) as refurbished. Then the press and idiotic magazines like EGM will report "Flashback 2's High Defective Rate" or some other twisted headline but in reality, people are trying to get ancient broken cartridges to work with a fully functional Flashback 2. That would be a nightmare for Infogrames.

 

I certainly don't blame them for the no-front-access to the cartridge port, and I don't mind. Like many people here, I'm just happy they're including access to a cartridge port. If you can't solder, I'm sure someone here will offer a service to add a cartridge port to your Flashback 2 for a small fee (or free).

 

You all that want a cartridge port on the Flashback should put yourselves in Infogrames' customer service shoes. I'm sure you'll see why they did this.

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Here's an off topic post saying that I love this new message board! Curt Vendel posted images you could see from the moon, but it didn't ruin the whole thread like it would have before! Only that one post is wider than an elephant's ass, the rest are normal.

 

:thumbsup:

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Precisely... makes the community happy (it'll work with real carts, you'll have to disable "Gizmo" the MMU/Menu chip inside to allow for external carts, but you could also do a nice ribbon cable and cart connector inside, put a Kroc cart into it and make your own reprogrammable Flashback 2.0

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It should be possible disable for carts on-the-fly, Kevin Horton came up with this trick long time ago. You bend up one of the two cartridge connector ground pins and give it a pullup resistor to 5v. If a cart is inserted, the cart shorts the two "ground" pins together and that bent pin is at 0v, no cart it stays at 5v. Might need some additional logic after that point though.

 

since the current Atari never made any money on the sale of those carts,

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Heh, the past Atari never made a profit of some of those carts either. :P

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By the size of it, a portable Atari out of that thing should be really easy.

 

I aint worried about disabling the menu chip, that's just cutting the clock or voltage lead.

 

Wow, its small... and the fact everything is push button allows it for more options on hacking it to a portable.

 

I'll give $20 for the first person to hack this to fit inside of a nomad, making all the buttons work, and using the DB9 on the bottom as added capability!

 

:lust:

 

EDIT: Here's a question. If you disable the menu chip inside, will the difficulty switches work?

Edited by keilbaca
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its been done, BEN HECK DID IT a long time ago, but back to the subject on hand, can Jsoper please repeat what he said in the laymen terms? its not for me, i know this stuff, but Keilbaca's a little off in the head, so why not explaine it again?

(J/K Keilbaca, you probably know what it means, i DONT!)

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Easy. There are traces going to the chip. One is the clock, the speed the chip runs, and one is the power trace, with power going to it. Just cut the power trace (a trace is a thin copper wire embedded into the circuitboard), and it has no power.

 

Now, I don't know if this will tell it to say, hey, look for a cart!, or if there is more to it.

 

Meh, Ben already did everything. Give us newbies with no tools a break!

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According to earlier, it should have pre-cart solder points, so that would be easy.

 

As long as the disabling of the power works, I can easily throw a switch there to turn the menu chip on and off.

 

I plan on getting 2 myself, one to hack and one to keep. I'll post instructions (if CPUWIZ doesn't beat me to it ;)) on how to disable the chip, and how to make a switch to enable/disable it.

 

I'll even add a section to make it run off of batteries (if it doesn't already)

 

Edit: We should document all that we can do to the thing in a thread, with easy to follow instructions, so when people want to do this themselves, its easy.

 

Post edit: Hmm, no power LED. Should be easy enough ;)

Edited by keilbaca
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okay, its settled, using a gameboy Advanced Sp, we'll make a portable, but first we need the scematics to the SP to do this and know what to connect/disconnect, solder/de-solder, yadda, yadda, yadda, ya know what i mean

 

EDIT: plus the rechargable Ion(maybee) battery it has we'll be great for re-charging and not using so many batteries.

 

EDIT AGAIN: i checked the SP's hackabilities, it has those damnned nintendo screws, how the hell are we supposed to take it apart?????

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That's easy.

 

Take a pen, preferabely a bic ball point ben with the piece of plastic that seperates from the stick itself.

 

Open it up, take out the pen iteslf.

 

Put it back together, you should have what looks like a normal pen but no ink cartridge inside. Light it with a lighter till its hot, put it over the Nintendo screw, let cool, twist out.

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Clever marketing - definately not the Atari of old. :roll:

 

Although the console itself can't take carts, the re-introduction of the joysticks is clever. Those of us who still have the original machines but lack the joysticks may well be tempted to buy this machine just for those.

 

Did miss a trick by not including a cart port, though. But if I were Infotari I'd probably design a machine that took carts the size of a Gameboy ROM on a machine that small. :ponder: Extra revenue potential without having to redesign a new model every few months.

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okay, umm... i didnt really get that, a ball point pen....... you mean remove thething inside the pen thats on a spring sometimes and put the cap back on it, and heat it up and put it in?

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Exactly. Remove it, so there is nothing there, then you just light up that hole till its hot, wrap around Nintendo screw, cool, twist.

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Clever marketing - definately not the Atari of old.  :roll:

 

Although the console itself can't take carts, the re-introduction of the joysticks is clever. Those of us who still have the original machines but lack the joysticks may well be tempted to buy this machine just for those.

 

Did miss a trick by not including a cart port, though. But if I were Infotari I'd probably design a machine that took carts the size of a Gameboy ROM on a machine that small.  :ponder:  Extra revenue potential without having to redesign a new model every few months.

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Notice what he said before. The design didn't make the deadline. Expect it in 2006.

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oi, sorry for several posting of the same thing, my comp is messin up a little bit..... so i aint got a ball point pen, i just got a regular push button pen with an alluminum tip, do i do the same thing?

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If you want to try it you can but i wouldn't recommend it...

 

also needlenose pliers should work too...

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Looks like trigun finally passed out. I think I myself will pass on this system unless it has really good games(which I have been too lazy to look up). I will admit that this is a giant step in the right direction as far as classic gaming goes, but for some reason it just doesn't feel right yet. Wish they would just sell some hardware with the ability to link up to a computer for roms. Yeah, I know the legal issues, but they'd make mega-bucks with the hardware so they wouldn't have to worry about it. Well heck, it's not worth me griping about it. I'm just bitter that I can't find any working paddles around these parts.

 

Cortex

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No emulation, no porting, its a real 2600 on a chip inside running real Atari 2600 binaries direct, hence "the real McCoy"

 

Lots of old favorite games

a lot of new arcade ports never before seen on the 2600 platform

several homebrew submissions

a couple of licensed titles (Nope, don't ask, not telling you which ones)

and several hidden surprise games easter egged within the console to find.

 

 

 

Curt

 

 

I don't get it.  Why do people like this more than the original Flashback?

 

Yes, I see the marginal improvement in going for emulation vs. portage, but it's still not "the real McCoy" as Infogrames seems to want to convince people it is.  It's running on "modern hardware", most likely still an NES-on-a-chip.  There's still no cartridge slot.

 

The games that are included may or may not be more faithful than the original Flashback (I'm thinking the sounds will still probably be off, at least, because that's really dependent on the hardware), but it's not some holy grail we're looking at here.

 

The box is nice, but that's about it.  Those buttons just do not look right where the old chrome switches are supposed to be.

 

(I'll get one anyway - I got an original FB too.)

846067[/snapback]

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Current workbench tests-

 

21.5hrs straight in stable operating condition on 3 AA's

 

So if you want to hack it into a portable...

 

 

 

Curt

 

By the size of it, a portable Atari out of that thing should be really easy.

 

I aint worried about disabling the menu chip, that's just cutting the clock or voltage lead.

 

Wow, its small... and the fact everything is push button allows it for more options on hacking it to a portable.

 

I'll give $20 for the first person to hack this to fit inside of a nomad, making all the buttons work, and using the DB9 on the bottom as added capability!

 

:lust:

 

EDIT: Here's a question. If you disable the menu chip inside, will the difficulty switches work?

847251[/snapback]

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Current workbench tests-

 

21.5hrs straight in stable operating condition on 3 AA's

 

So if you want to hack it into a portable...

 

 

 

Curt

 

By the size of it, a portable Atari out of that thing should be really easy.

 

I aint worried about disabling the menu chip, that's just cutting the clock or voltage lead.

 

Wow, its small... and the fact everything is push button allows it for more options on hacking it to a portable.

 

I'll give $20 for the first person to hack this to fit inside of a nomad, making all the buttons work, and using the DB9 on the bottom as added capability!

 

:lust:

 

EDIT: Here's a question. If you disable the menu chip inside, will the difficulty switches work?

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That's exactly what I was looking for. Sounds like a portable is Very possible, and with very good battery life as well.

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Wow.

 

The original FB didn't really impress me, and the reviews even less so.

 

This ... this actually impresses me.  It's a mini sexy!  And it has DB9 ports!  And even the box looks all retro nouveau!

 

I'm going to have to see if I can get one of these in Canada.  Or get someone south of the 49 to get one for me.  :-)

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Wow this looks AWESOME. and u can use paddles/joyboards/footboards/keypads etc with it! :-) amazing! all we need is some kind of hacked cart port and we are rocking!

 

I'm glad to see all my hard work towards the beautiful big sexy 2600 is not in vain :-)

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Wow.

 

The original FB didn't really impress me, and the reviews even less so.

 

This ... this actually impresses me.  It's a mini sexy!  And it has DB9 ports!  And even the box looks all retro nouveau!

 

I'm going to have to see if I can get one of these in Canada.  Or get someone south of the 49 to get one for me.  :-)

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Wow this looks AWESOME. and u can use paddles/joyboards/footboards/keypads etc with it! :-) amazing! all we need is some kind of hacked cart port and we are rocking!

 

I'm glad to see all my hard work towards the beautiful big sexy 2600 is not in vain :-)

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As I mentioned before, once I take a look at the FB2.0 and see what I can do, and if I am able to get some cartridge ports, I'll do a few people's FB2.0's.

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So, where do we get these cartridge ports from anyways? A site of some sort? Or do we have to rip one out of an old Atari 2600? I would really like to know.

 

BTW, those are some fantastic pics Curt. :lust:

 

edit: It also would've been great to put on a USB port on that back so that we can hook up a thumb drive with all our roms. Yeah, I know. Keep dreaming. :)

Edited by compacho
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The Dreamcast was a killer system, why couldn't they keep selling that?  Because it wasn't profitable enough in the current market (and cds are a lot cheaper to make than carts).

Likewise, cart slots, and slotless ROM-based systems, are cheaper to make than CD drives. Which is why the SuperJoy type systems exist.

 

And for those of you who don't believe that Atarigrames would get tons of support calls for people trying to play a dust-encrusted Pac-Man cart, consider that Nintendo got support calls from PowerJoy users, when they weren't responsible for those at all!

Edited by Bruce Tomlin
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The Dreamcast was a killer system, why couldn't they keep selling that?  Because it wasn't profitable enough in the current market (and cds are a lot cheaper to make than carts).

Likewise, cart slots, and slotless ROM-based systems, are cheaper to make than CD drives. Which is why the SuperJoy type systems exist.

 

And for those of you who don't believe that Atarigrames would get tons of support calls for people trying to play a dust-encrusted Pac-Man cart, consider that Nintendo got support calls from PowerJoy users, when they weren't responsible for those at all!

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And no one will phone in with complaints about their broken paddle conrollers?

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No emulation, no porting, its a real 2600 on a chip inside running real Atari 2600 binaries direct, hence "the real McCoy"

 

Lots of old favorite games

a lot of new arcade ports never before seen on the 2600 platform

several homebrew submissions

a couple of licensed titles (Nope, don't ask, not telling you which ones)

and several hidden surprise games easter egged within the console to find.

 

 

 

Curt

 

 

I don't get it.  Why do people like this more than the original Flashback?

 

Yes, I see the marginal improvement in going for emulation vs. portage, but it's still not "the real McCoy" as Infogrames seems to want to convince people it is.  It's running on "modern hardware", most likely still an NES-on-a-chip.  There's still no cartridge slot.

 

The games that are included may or may not be more faithful than the original Flashback (I'm thinking the sounds will still probably be off, at least, because that's really dependent on the hardware), but it's not some holy grail we're looking at here.

 

The box is nice, but that's about it.  Those buttons just do not look right where the old chrome switches are supposed to be.

 

(I'll get one anyway - I got an original FB too.)

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Curt... did you say licensed games as well? Seems these Flashback units are getting the attention of other companies! Excellent news!

 

My question though... with the breakdown you've provided and the mention of the easter egg hidden games (What a wonderful idea by the way!) I'm curious to know if the 40 games (as the press release mentioned) includes the hidden games or are we in for a 42 or more game system with the FlashBack 2.0?

 

This system is getting better and better!

 

What kind of documentation will be provded with the units? I never bought the first one but was wondering if the manual will be similar to it? (Note - to anyone who has that info... what was the manual like for the first FlashBack? )

 

Exciting times this is!

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I think its funny with the new Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy being released, the idea of the two hidden games came about months ago and I've been referring to the total count as "Life, the universe and everything ... 42"

 

 

Curt

 

 

No emulation, no porting, its a real 2600 on a chip inside running real Atari 2600 binaries direct, hence "the real McCoy"

 

Lots of old favorite games

a lot of new arcade ports never before seen on the 2600 platform

several homebrew submissions

a couple of licensed titles (Nope, don't ask, not telling you which ones)

and several hidden surprise games easter egged within the console to find.

 

 

 

Curt

 

 

I don't get it.  Why do people like this more than the original Flashback?

 

Yes, I see the marginal improvement in going for emulation vs. portage, but it's still not "the real McCoy" as Infogrames seems to want to convince people it is.  It's running on "modern hardware", most likely still an NES-on-a-chip.  There's still no cartridge slot.

 

The games that are included may or may not be more faithful than the original Flashback (I'm thinking the sounds will still probably be off, at least, because that's really dependent on the hardware), but it's not some holy grail we're looking at here.

 

The box is nice, but that's about it.  Those buttons just do not look right where the old chrome switches are supposed to be.

 

(I'll get one anyway - I got an original FB too.)

846067[/snapback]

847355[/snapback]

 

Curt... did you say licensed games as well? Seems these Flashback units are getting the attention of other companies! Excellent news!

 

My question though... with the breakdown you've provided and the mention of the easter egg hidden games (What a wonderful idea by the way!) I'm curious to know if the 40 games (as the press release mentioned) includes the hidden games or are we in for a 42 or more game system with the FlashBack 2.0?

 

This system is getting better and better!

 

What kind of documentation will be provded with the units? I never bought the first one but was wondering if the manual will be similar to it? (Note - to anyone who has that info... what was the manual like for the first FlashBack? )

 

Exciting times this is!

847462[/snapback]

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