CV Super Expansion Module "reservation" list

[Bill Brasky]

On a side note I know that alot has been said about the similarities between the MSX and the coleco so I was wondering.  Scrolling seems to be better on the MSX.  Is that just my imagination?  Or is there a reason.

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There was much more game development done on the MSX, longer lifespan.

[Shannon]

So your saying as the software developers got better they found ways around this limitation in the hardware?

[Bill Brasky]

So your saying as the software developers got better they found ways around this limitation in the hardware?

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Yes. The CV was only around from 1982 to 84-ish(CRASH of 84). There was no development done after that point(not counting modern homebrews) so most of what you're seeing are first attempts at programming the system. The MSX was around for much longer and has waaay more games/software/homebrew stuff, had tons more developers big and small. Some CV games scroll fine, Nova Blast, Defender, Moon Patrol etc.. Games that scroll vertically don't seem to have any problems. It isn't that the CV can't scroll, it can only shift a limited amount of data at a time. If you have very detailed backgrounds and colorful graphics and try to scroll it, as in Zaxxon, it won't be as smooth. If you simplify the detail and backgrounds like in Defender or Nova Blast it'll scroll smoothly. I don't understand why everytime the CV comes up someone has to say "but it can't scroll" , yet they have no problem with the Atari 2600's shitty graphics and sound. Every system has it's limitations.

[Shannon]

Not sure why. To be honest I never expected much from the 2600 as far as scrolling. But I do remember a couple games like zaxxon where the scrolling is real jerky.

 

Anyways I always considered the colecovision more in the arena of the atari 8-bit computers at the time and the atari computers had very smooth hardware scrolling. So I guess it was just more obvious to me.

 

But after seeing a few MSX titles I noticed they handled scrolling pretty well so I thought maybe they had a little more than the colecovision (hardware wise).

 

In other words I was really comparing the colecovision to the atari computers (as opposed to the 2600) because I feel it's titles were more on par with the C64 and atari computers.

[+opcode]

So your saying as the software developers got better they found ways around this limitation in the hardware?

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I suppose we are talking about the MSX1 here, right?

Well, the only practical way to create fine scroll with the TMS9928 is to have all necessary characters already shifted and loaded in VRAM, because the interface between the VDP and the CPU is very slow. It means it will need 8 characters for each original character (or maybe 4, if you use 2 pixels increments). Of course I am considering horizontal scroll, since vertical smooth scroll would be far more complicated. Anyway, since the VDP is just able to store 256 characters for each screen third, your game will be severely limited in graphic variety and colors. Several Atarisoft games use this method, like Moon Patrol, Defender and Jungle Hunt, and you can see what I mean.

Almost all Japanese MSX games use course scroll, due to the limitations I explained above. The real diference is that most MSX games use screen buffers, to generate a complete screen map on memory before transfering it to the VDP. It means faster and smoother (in the sense one can't spot the screen "redraw") scroll (beside allowing more complex backgrounds). For example, Road Fighter is one of the fastest scrolling games ever for the MSX (soon coming for the CV), in fact faster than any existing CV game (and Road Fighter uses a screen buffer). The problem with video buffers is that they require RAM space, which is very limited in the CV (a full buffer takes 768 bytes, and the CV has just 1KB of RAM).

I hope the SEM will solve it in the same way the Supercharger solved it for the 2600. And of course the SEM video chip will allow hardware scroll even when using a legacy screen mode (it means, the screen modes used with legacy CV games).

 

Eduardo

[+opcode]

But after seeing a few MSX titles I noticed they handled scrolling pretty well so I thought maybe they had a little more than the colecovision (hardware wise).

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Which MSX titles are you considering? I don't remember any MSX1 title with fine scroll. Remember that MSX2/2+ computers use a different video IC with built-in hardware scroll...

 

Eduardo

[Shannon]

It very well coulda been an MSX2 title and I was unaware. I was running an MSX emulator and I'm not real familar with MSX's.

 

1k of RAM? Well that explains alot right there, so in a way hardware limitations is the cause. In the sense that lack of RAM limits the use of screen buffers.

[NightSprinter]

Well, having read about what can be done about this, I'd have to say you've got my vote on this one, Ed. *patiently waits for a refund check from school for the semester*

[MattG/Snyper2099]

I can honestly say that I wouldn't buy it. Sounds really cool but $200 for both units to play 3 enhanced games??? Maybe if the games were included with the setup I might buy it. As it stands, it's just not that appealing yet. I'm a fairly big colecovision junkie too for what it's woth.

[frax]

Hell yes, im in!

[dgob123]

I'm in