Why is the real hardware better than emulation?

[Dones]

wtf I like boobs a *LOT* better than either coke or pepsi. What kind of dumb ass test is THAT?

879722[/snapback]

You really need to improve your reading comprehension.

 

slow down!

 

If you probably cant tell then all thats saying about you is that your in a rush

Ofcourse you can tell the difference 

879703[/snapback]

Are you sure I am the one needing slowing down? You are giving out too much personal info about yourself there.

 

Of course you don't suffer from those, erm, problems.

Edited June 23, 2005 by Dones

[+Omegamatrix]

I love emulation and will always continue to use emulation, but it doesn't ever give the same feeling as does to use the actual hardware. It lacks the nostalgia and pride that an owner gets from showing off their collection. It just feels more fun to fire up an old 2600 than to open up a rom on my computer. Emulation is great for trying games before you buy them, but I still prefer to own the real thing.

[LocalH]

Both emulation and original hardware kick ass, and both have their advantages and disadvantages.

 

Emulation advantages:

Economy of space - you can store thousands of ROMs, plus an emulator, on a hard drive that's pretty much roughly the size of two NES carts.

Display clarity - barring special filters, the display is pixel-accurate to the original.

Development - it is much easier to do build-test cycles with an emulator than it is to either do an EPROM burn-test-erase cycle, or even to download the test binary to a cart like the KK. Many emulators (but not all) also offer debuggers that are "external" to the emulated system, as opposed to the more limited debugging that you can do directly on the real hardware.

 

Emulation disadvantages:

Accuracy - some mature emulators are quite accurate (look at CCS64 and VICE with regards to the C64 - there is very little code that doesn't work on the emulators, and they use very obscure hardware quirks). Despite this, no emulator is currently 100% accurate, and there is ALWAYS going to be some little piece of code that will cause the emulator to puke.

Experience - it's just not the original hardware. There's something to be said for plugging up a real VCS (especially a heavy sixer), attaching the original joystick, inserting a real cart, and getting the REAL 2600 experience. Especially if you play it on a TV of the same vintage.

Legality - the only way to play classic games legally is to own the carts. Of course, if you do buy the carts, this opens the door to 100% legal emulation, but for most people (including myself), several of the games that you emulate were undoubtedly acquired illegally.

 

That's why I am a big fan of emulation, and I'm also a big fan of classic hardware. That's also why, if I ever hit the lottery, I will make sure that my emulation is 100% legal, even if it means amassing a monstrous collection of original software and arcade cabs. I will also build a 100% legal MAME cab, with the original machines kept in a nice climate-controlled warehouse (thus, I can even charge for use of the MAME cab, since I'm not using my originals and the emulated copies at the same time).

[Lord Thag]

wtf I like boobs a *LOT* better than either coke or pepsi. What kind of dumb ass test is THAT?

 

I'll second that. They didn't offer any at the coke/pepsi test, though the lady giving me soda was awful, umm, test-worthy Too bad. I'm sure I could have told the difference given enough time

 

Seriously though, I love the hardware for playing at home, and emulation for on the go. I think the emulation scene has really kept the interest in old gaming alive. I often wonder if we'd have huge sites like AA and DP if emulation had never taken off. Probably, but I wonder if the interest would be as high.

[danwinslow]

wtf I like boobs a *LOT* better than either coke or pepsi. What kind of dumb ass test is THAT?

 

 

You really need to improve your reading comprehension.

 

 

And you, my friend, need to get your Humor module tuned up. I was joking.

Edited June 24, 2005 by danwinslow

[ATARIeric]

Hands over the humor module

[danwinslow]

LOL

 

Thats like the essence of the late 70's early 80's experience! needs boobies, though, for perfection.

Edited June 24, 2005 by danwinslow

[Stingray]

Actually in order to keep the experience as authentic as possible, I prefer to hook my classic systems up to a little woodgrain 13 inch TV that I have in my gameroom rather than to the big TV in the living room.

 

-S

879449[/snapback]

 

Did you notice any artifact or any other problem in the modern TV that didn't happen in the old tv?

879737[/snapback]

 

Oh no, I wasn't trying to imply anything like that. I just used a little TV with woodgrain on it for my video games when I was a kid. It's just a personal preference thing. I expect that people who had thier first console hooked up to a big screen TV would think they look totally wrong on my little retrovision.

 

-S

[Famicoman]

Its like you have the real thing. Some are used, and you know kids were playing on it 30 years ago. Emulators are different.

[DracIsBack]

I'm in agreement that things just aren't quite right when emulated. Something always feels "off" ... either the control, the speed of the game, the graphics or the sound. The graphics usually bug me on emulated games as they (IMO) usually look better on the real system.

[Flojomojo]

I remember why emulation is better than the real hardware. Here are six reasons:

 

1. EBgames sent me MagMax instead of Mad Max.

2. I phoned them so they could fix it and they sent me another copy. Of Magmax, not Mad Max.

3. My "new" Zapper stopped working two days after I got it.

4. It and the NES Max that came with it REEKED of cigarette smoke when I got it.

5. The dickbag I ordered 5 cartridges from on Ebay charged a total of $14.99 for shipping and handling -- then threw everything into a bubble envelope and shipped it for $3.85. One of the cartridges doesn't work so I'll see how he fixes that before leaving feedback.

6. The Neo Fami doesn't seem to play Rolling Thunder, one of my favorite games. I now have 2 copies (thanks to EBgames, see #1 and 2) and neither one loads up.

7. The Neo Fami is kinda cheap and hangs onto cartridges too tightly, but I don't want a front-loading NES since I know how flaky they can be. Maybe I'll spring for a Messiah console when they begin shipping but before Nintendo sues their butts off.

 

I should just stick to faking it! Old dodgy hardware sucks.

[Shannon]

I think there are advantages and disadvantages.

 

In some case an emulator makes up for crappy controls (like the colecovision, 7800, 5200). Not that the coleco and 7800 controls are REAL bad but they are certainly hard on my hands.

 

On the other hand I've yet to see an emulator that can make a paddle game enjoyable to play.

 

Plus you dont have to worry about dirty carts (NES), bad floppies (any computer based systems), fuzzy tv signals, etc. No swapping discs on multi-disc games.

 

Emulators have save states which can be a life saver in a busy household.

 

Still there is something to be said about the original thing. So I'm probably 70/30 on this one.

[JB]

I think there are advantages and disadvantages.

 

In some case an emulator makes up for crappy controls (like the colecovision, 7800, 5200).  Not that the coleco and 7800 controls are REAL bad but they are certainly hard on my hands.

The 5200 emulators that offer even passable control are few and far between.

 

It's one of the systems I simply don't consider emulation a viable option for in general, due largely to half-assed kludgy controller interfaces.

 

 

On the other hand I've yet to see an emulator that can make a paddle game enjoyable to play.

Get a good trackball and they're reasonably fun, IMO.

Not perfect, but good.

 

Plus you dont have to worry about dirty carts (NES), bad floppies (any computer based systems), fuzzy tv signals, etc.  No swapping discs on multi-disc games.

 

Emulators have save states which can be a life saver in a busy household.

True.

 

Though you gotta watch out with state saves. Screwed myself occasionally with an ill-timed one.

...

But I was using it to cheat anyways.

[Shannon]

I've never had problems with any 5200 emulators. Since they typically use digital as opposed to analog control usually it is simply a matter of circling the joystick in all directions. (Not unlike using the redemption adapter).

 

But it certainly beats fooling around with those finicky controllers.

 

I also forgot to mention it's kinda cool to take my dual analog pad and play games like robotron.

 

I noticed the SNES version of arkanoid had a pretty good solution to analog control. If you hold a button down the paddle moves faster.

 

Also to me an emu is appreciated even more when one understands the internal workings of the machine being emulated. Which in my case I have a fairly good understanding of them.

[JB]

I've never had problems with any 5200 emulators.  Since they typically use digital as opposed to analog control usually it is simply a matter of circling the joystick in all directions.  (Not unlike using the redemption adapter).

I've had problems with dorked phone pads, a messed up reset, and in one particularly offensive case, even the second fire button.

Basically all the symptoms of a Atari computer emulator that had 5200 support pinned on as an afterthought so they could claim they supported it without anything really working.

 

Also had problems with emus emulating a pot range that goes down to 0. Which causes strange and interesting bugs in some games, not unlike a Masterplay.

 

 

The ONLY 5200 emu I've ever been happy with was the Dreamcast port of Atari800.

It doesn't have proper reset behavior, but other than that is quite functional.

 

But it certainly beats fooling around with those finicky controllers.

Not for me.

 

 

I also forgot to mention it's kinda cool to take my dual analog pad and play games like robotron.

Better done on MAME either way.

 

I noticed the SNES version of arkanoid had a pretty good solution to analog control.  If you hold a button down the paddle moves faster.

Better way: SNES mouse.

Arkanoid is pr'ly the only SNES game that supports dual mice, too.

 

Also to me an emu is appreciated even more when one understands the internal workings of the machine being emulated.  Which in my case I have a fairly good understanding of them.

884647[/snapback]

*nods*

 

I don't have the best knowledge of them.

I understand the whys in a lot of cases, but not the hows.

[Shannon]

I'll have to see if I can get my hands on an SNES mouse.

 

Yeah alot of atari emulators do seem to include the 5200 as an afterthought. The xbox one has to configured weird just to get the usual 5200 buttons to work correctly.

 

I'm pretty sure that someone released a stripped down version of the atari800win emulator that works better for 5200 fans.

 

Yeah I really like the dreamcast port of the atari800 emulator. The GP32 one is really nice as well. I'm hoping the guy who did the ST and 800 emulator for the GP32 will do one for the PSP as well.

[+Cobra Kai]

So I take it those of you that prefer emulation, also prefer a blow-up doll instead of a real girl?

[danwinslow]

Well, the controllers on real girls aren't very responsive. They eventually, sometimes, do what I command, if they feel like it, and if it was all their idea in the first place.

[Shannon]

So I take it those of you that prefer emulation, also prefer a blow-up doll instead of a real girl?

884963[/snapback]

 

Rather strange comparison...

 

Did you have something you wanted to tell us?

[shadow460]

I play Virtual On with my older than dirt Saturn and a twin stick that got shipped all the way from Japan.

 

I tried emulationg the arcade on my PC, and even if I get it running right, you just don't see a Twin Stick in every game store--let alone for a PC.

 

Games like The Vindicators, any Star Wars arcade game (Racer, namely), and Virtual On just do not play like they should when emulated.

The worst of that bunch for porting/emulation has to be Episode 1 Racer. Sega just destroyed the Lucas game with their coin op. Too bad they never produced it for DC--it would have rocked.

 

Point is that you can usually get controls that imitate the arcade's for your console (unless you are playing CBS's Omega Race), but with an emulator you're stuck with whatever's offered. Try finding an old school Atari Joystick Controller for something like the Activision Decathlon.

 

Actual hardware is the best, hands down.

[JB]

Point is that you can usually get controls that imitate the arcade's for your console (unless you are playing CBS's Omega Race), but with an emulator you're stuck with whatever's offered.  Try finding an old school Atari Joystick Controller for something like the Activision Decathlon.

885219[/snapback]

As far as imitating the arcades goes...

http://arcadecontrols.com/arcade.htm

 

 

As far as using something similar to console controllers...

A. There's adapters available for damn near everything. Heck, taking your 2600 example and lobbing it back at you, there's THIS. 5$ for a 2600-style USB controller(if I recall from when it originally showed up, the construction is actually a recreation of a Gemini Gemstick, which was a pretty close knockoff of the 2600 stick).

 

 

B. One of the things I LIKE about emulators is that I'm not constrained to what's available for the native system. I hate NES pads, dislike 2600 sticks, and vehemently and passionately loathe Playstation controllers with the burning heat of a thousand suns.

Being able to use a PC gamepad that I genuinely like for all of them(and on the 2600 I gain the bonus of not having to lean over to yank select and reset on top of it) is one of the best reasons I can think of TO use an emulator.

[eric_ruck]

I prefer the real thing for a number of reasons:

 

1) I work lots of hours in front of a computer and spending any more time there than necessary (present company excepted) is too much time, feels too much like work.

 

2) The TV hums, the images artifact and bleed, the sound is a little staticy, the real controllers feel a certain way -- it's like listening to digital remasters of jazz classics, it lacks warmth.

 

3) Collecting is about touching the stuff. Carts, labels, power cords everywhere, the thrill of bringing a dead yard sale system back to life.

 

4) Seeing your homebrew running on an emulator is good, but you know it's not 100% done until it runs on hardware.

 

Eric

[Shannon]

I have to admit that it helps to be familar with what the "original" controllers were to appreciate the game. Like alot of people said some games are just not quite the same.

 

But there are a fair amount of adapters available to get around that.

 

As for working on a PC all day I can understand. That's why my emu machine has a tv out on it as well as a cordless keyboard. I'd like to get a mame cab someda.

 

Unfortunately my TV pc also is my multimedia machine (slide show I'm working on), RCT 3 machine, burning machine, TV series recording machine, movie watching machine....

 

So emu's tend to get short thrifted on it. If it had a bigger hard drive I probably would not have to worry.

[JB]

I have to admit that it helps to be familar with what the "original" controllers were to appreciate the game.  Like alot of people said some games are just not quite the same.

Yah. Particularly when going from joystick to gamepad.

I prefer my PC gamepad over stock 2600 sticks, but I don't do near as well.

 

Fortunately, I have some 3rd-party 2600 sticks I like, so it's not near as big a deal as I made it sound(exaggeration to make a point).

[MaximRecoil]

I use both emulation and the real hardware. I like emulation because I can try out most any game. I like the hardware because everything is exactly the way it is suppose to be; plus you have cool stuff. There is a lot of nostalgia associated with that stuff for me, the console itself, the cartridges, the controllers; everything. A few other points:

 

- Classic consoles tended to be silent while PC's tend not to be.

- Classic consoles boot up instantly; PC's do not.

- You never have to mess around with stuff trying to figure out which key is assigned to what function. For example, the difficulty switch on an Atari is simply, the difficulty switch; it is not hidden in a menu somewhere or assigned to some random key on a keyboard.

- Classic games are low resolution; classic TV's are low resolution and can display the games' resolution natively and fullscreen, while keeping the overscan areas of the game right where they are supposed to be; i.e. offscreen; they are a perfect match and the one was specifically designed to work with the other. Barring special hardware and/or software, a typical PC's video card can not output those "weird" resolutions so you get either artifact-laced hardware stretching if you want fullscreen or the exact resolution, but smaller than your screen with black borders all around it. Plus, the PC monitor's high resolution capabilities make edges which appear smooth on a TV, look sharp and jagged. Plus, where are the scan lines?

 

BTW, Coke and Pepsi taste nothing alike.

Edited July 28, 2005 by MaximRecoil