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Hunchy II

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I have asked Al to remove Hunchy II from the AtariAge store at the end of the month.

IMO you shouldn't do so. This may start a dangerous trend which I wouldn't like to see happen.

 

Also your arguments are weak, because you have to compare your game with other 4K releases. And definitely not with 32K, extra RAM, ARM-driven ones (or anything that comes even remotely close). And compared to other 4K games, Hunchy II still shines.

 

The only reason I would accept would be a better version of the game from you. :)

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Have to admit, nice tactic to boost more sales though! lol j/k

Totally agree that Hunchy II still stands on its own and is a great example of what can be squeezed out of only 4k. Slightly lower priced game maybe? Be a shame to see stuff like this completely disappear.

Or heck, include it in a multi-cart of sorts. Quality older games like this could be included in a compilation cart today. :)

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IMO you shouldn't do so. This may start a dangerous trend which I wouldn't like to see happen.

 

Also your arguments are weak, because you have to compare your game with other 4K releases. And definitely not with 32K, extra RAM, ARM-driven ones (or anything that comes even remotely close). And compared to other 4K games, Hunchy II still shines.

 

The only reason I would accept would be a better version of the game from you. :)

 

Agreed with Thomas 100%.

 

Except that I didn't know it was 4K - I thought it was 8K. Either way, it's still a rock-solid game. And at $20, it's a bargain. The store needs affordable games. Some of the new games (especially Melody games w/boxes) are expensive.

 

And even if you did a Hunchy 3, I think Hunchy 2 should still stay in the store.

 

So I guess I only mostly agree with Thomas. ;)

 

I definitely don't want to see this become a trend. Homebrews have a unique history, and it's cool being able to see the progression of them. I think it's important to preserve that, and let people discover it.

 

There should be a video of it in the store though - some of the games still don't have them (he says... knowing full well he'll be the one who ends up doing them).

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Hunchy II is at the top of my list of older homebrews I need to go back and pick up. Maybe it isn't as flashy as some of the newer games, but the gameplay is spot-on and it is absolutely a bargain.

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IMO you shouldn't do so. This may start a dangerous trend which I wouldn't like to see happen.

 

Also your arguments are weak, because you have to compare your game with other 4K releases. And definitely not with 32K, extra RAM, ARM-driven ones (or anything that comes even remotely close). And compared to other 4K games, Hunchy II still shines.

 

The only reason I would accept would be a better version of the game from you. icon_smile.gif

 

Hi Thomas,

 

Can you say more about why you see this as a dangerous trend? IMO the AA store could use some pruning of the weaker titles - I'd personally like to see it as a showcase of the best homebrew that the 2600 has to offer (quality over quantity). For Hunchy 2, the ROM is freely available, so nothing will be lost as it can still be played on Stella, using a Harmony Cart, and even on the Flashback Portable. Is your main concern that collectors will push up the prices of the unavailable carts to insane levels?

 

I agree from a technical perspective that it doesn't make sense to compare a 4K game against the latest 32K DPC+/CDF releases. However, I suspect the majority of folks purchasing homebrews are not aware of these details. All they will see is that Hunchy 2 doesn't compare favorably against titles like Stay Frosty 2? I'm concerned that someone will purchase this title based on the high reviews and come away with an unfavorable impression of the 2600 homebrew scene.

 

I would also like to purge this title for personal reasons - this was my first 2600 title and I really should have spent more time polishing it around the edges. The sound effects are poor, there are not enough levels, and the presentation is amateurish. If I had more spare time, I would produce an enhanced version to correct these flaws, but this isn't likely to happen anytime soon.

 

Chris

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No freaking way. Hunchy II is one of my favorite homebrews in my collection and I am never shy about recommending it to anyone who asks what homebrews they should look at getting. I am about to order the multi-cart that has Hunchy on it because I missed it and I love Hunchy II so much I feel that my collection is incomplete without the original.

 

I don't care how many Draconians or Scrambles come out, Hunchy II is a homebrew classic and if Albert ever ran some kind of "Greatest Hits" line of games, Hunchy II would HAVE to be on that list. I have just as much fun playing Hunchy II as I do anything that has come out since.

 

No way. I think this is a huge mistake.

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It's got 9 reviews in the AA store and a perfect 5 star rating. Absolutely no sign that it's being outflashed by the new generation of homebrews.

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Can you say more about why you see this as a dangerous trend? IMO the AA store could use some pruning of the weaker titles - I'd personally like to see it as a showcase of the best homebrew that the 2600 has to offer (quality over quantity). For Hunchy 2, the ROM is freely available, so nothing will be lost as it can still be played on Stella, using a Harmony Cart, and even on the Flashback Portable. Is your main concern that collectors will push up the prices of the unavailable carts to insane levels?

 

I agree from a technical perspective that it doesn't make sense to compare a 4K game against the latest 32K DPC+/CDF releases. However, I suspect the majority of folks purchasing homebrews are not aware of these details. All they will see is that Hunchy 2 doesn't compare favorably against titles like Stay Frosty 2? I'm concerned that someone will purchase this title based on the high reviews and come away with an unfavorable impression of the 2600 homebrew scene.

Well, that's exactly why I think this may start a trend I wouldn't like to see happen. There still should be new stock Atari 2600 games possible. If people start to withdraw their 4K titles, then no one can compare new small homebrews with other ones and many people will not even try to code within the old limits. And then the learning curve for assembler games will become even steeper as it is already.

 

I would love to see 4K games like Assembloids continue to be released in the future and not only 32k BBasic and/or ARM-driven ones. And as a programmer, I can ignore those folks who don't know what they are talking about. I am sure you can do too. :)

 

I would also like to purge this title for personal reasons - this was my first 2600 title and I really should have spent more time polishing it around the edges. The sound effects are poor, there are not enough levels, and the presentation is amateurish. If I had more spare time, I would produce an enhanced version to correct these flaws, but this isn't likely to happen anytime soon.

That would be a reason for Hunchy 2.1, then you can purge this one. But not before.

 

And there is definitely nothing to be ashamed in Hunchy II!

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I would also like to purge this title for personal reasons - this was my first 2600 title and I really should have spent more time polishing it around the edges. The sound effects are poor, there are not enough levels, and the presentation is amateurish. If I had more spare time, I would produce an enhanced version to correct these flaws, but this isn't likely to happen anytime soon.

 

That would be a reason for Hunchy 2.1, then you can purge this one. But not before.

 

And there is definitely nothing to be ashamed in Hunchy II!

 

 

I agree with Thomas here. I was purchasing some new releases on the AA store last night and while browsing through the older games, I ALMOST purchased Hunchy II. The only reason I didn't go through with it was because I had already racked up a bill of a few hundred dollars with my order. I'd like to see it remain in the store because it (and all the others) deserve to be there. I will most likely buy it in a future order. :)

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No need to dump this game, IMO. It's a great example of a 4k game. It's nice to see games of different styles. Hunchy II can hold it's head high against other games, and has a place in the homebrew pantheon!

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I agree that it would be a shame to pull this game from the store. Fair representation to the buyer - a video as Nathan suggested - is more than enough. If a game has a fun game mechanic, it's timeless. The visual flash added to new games with the help of new tech and techniques, doesn't diminish the shine of older games for some of us.

 

I'm not fond of the "new games need to visually knock my socks off more than any other previous game" mentality. It turns the programmer into a circus performer, and I suspect a good many of those just looking for that socks-knocked-off high aren't going to play the game very long. That's not an argument to not do your best with presentation, but just a recognition that game play should trump visuals.

 

If you're still feeling embarrassed to have Hunchy II in your resume, maybe Al can put up some kind of "classic brew" designation for games older than 10 years. Maybe you'd feel better if people knew it was a bit historic?

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maybe Al can put up some kind of "classic brew" designation for games older than 10 years.

 

 

An interesting idea. You may also be able to use the release date/sales/popularity ranking data somehow generate a "classic" or "AA favorite" status to certain games. You wouldn't necessarily want to confuse buyers with technical/programming information in determining their purchase but a way of designating where it fits within the Atari timeline would be cool.

 

There are two things going on here though. AtariAge is not only a store but the definitive source for the Atari scene and it's history. It would be sad to lose some of that history in favor of sales. Kind of like George Lucas trying to erase the original Star Wars from existence.

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Or heck, include it in a multi-cart of sorts. Quality older games like this could be included in a compilation cart today. :)

I think that would be cool to have a homebrew classics multicart! Sign me up for one! :D

 

I don't own it and haven't played it, but I'm not sure just because it isn't 'fancy that it should be pulled. Yes some of the new fancy attract modes are nice but after that it's all about gameplay. Maybe you could do something like a Platinum Edition and fix/add things you don't like or think it's missing?

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Good idea; I would be interested in such a 'greatest hits' cart. Even though I technically don't need it, since I have ROMs, Harmony and Stella, it's still nice to have it on a real cart with box, etc.

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Games don't have to be perfect to still be enjoyable. One of my favorites is Warlords, and that one is far from perfect - the computer players would often spontaneously kill themselves! But it is still a fun game. It sounds like this one has some fans - it makes me want to try it now. :)

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Since there's renewed interest in this game, and Stella doesn't have ROM properties for it, we should get some added. cd-w, can you provide the following info:

 

"Cartridge.Manufacturer",
"Cartridge.ModelNo",
"Cartridge.Name",
"Cartridge.Note",
"Cartridge.Rarity",

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I agree from a technical perspective that it doesn't make sense to compare a 4K game against the latest 32K DPC+/CDF releases. However, I suspect the majority of folks purchasing homebrews are not aware of these details. All they will see is that Hunchy 2 doesn't compare favorably against titles like Stay Frosty 2? I'm concerned that someone will purchase this title based on the high reviews and come away with an unfavorable impression of the 2600 homebrew scene.

 

I think you're selling people short here. Anyone who's still buying 2600 games already values gameplay over graphics and flashy title screens. And while many homebrew buyers may not understand the nuts-and-bolts differences between 32K DPC+ and 4K, they know the difference exists and they know not to expect Stay Frosty 2 from a 4K game.

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To the above point, most people know they can try out the rom & see how it compares to other games :)

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Hi Thomas,

 

Can you say more about why you see this as a dangerous trend? IMO the AA store could use some pruning of the weaker titles - I'd personally like to see it as a showcase of the best homebrew that the 2600 has to offer (quality over quantity).

 

Chris

I think this is a bad move in general. Sure homebrews get better with time as mappers and enhancement chips (Melody programming) gets more advanced. No way we have even begun to squeeze out all the potential Melody has to offer, as has been proven with Draconian for instance.

 

Older back in the day titles have a simplicity that draws people to Atari, and nobody who wants highly sophisticated gameplay experience will be interested in Atari, regardless of what impressive breakthroughs homebrew programmers achieve on it. But many great and inventive homebrews still use the same 4k or 8k ROMs that were available to Atari developers back in the day, and they can be excellent.

 

I do not believe that the existence of better or more impressive games should warrant the discontinuation of old favorites. For instance, Pacman Arcade started as a hack of Ms Pacman. As it stands, it was far superior to the Pacman we got back in the day. There was also Hack Em and Ms Hack Em, which while never released in the store, were a huge improvement. Then Debro came up with Pacman 4k, a completely new from the ground up homebrew port of Pacman. I did not see anyone calling for the removal of Pacman Arcade from the AA store simply because a superior game was released. Likewise, when "New" Pacman 8k by Dintar816 comes out, I would not expect Pacman 4k to be retired, even though the new game is superior with more accurate sound. In fact, I enjoy playing all of these games. First I'll play Pacman Arcade, then Hack Em on the Harmony, then I'll play Debro's Pacman 4k before pluggin in the Harmony again and playing the latest build of "New" Pacman, which AFAIK isn't finalized yet, but pending addition of corner cutting it will likely become the most perfect Atari port humanly possible. Until someone creates a flawless Melody version of Pacman utilizing bus stuffing or whatever.

 

Point being, you think your game is obsolete, but it is not. It stands upon it's own merits, just like every back in the day game did, long before Melody or ARM coprocessors existed.

 

An artist is often his or her worst critic, who being the creator, can point out every flaw in the piece and how it may or may not have deviated from his or her vision. A painter knows every stroke in the painting because it came from his hands; likewise a programmer who wrote every single byte of code within a ROM is painfully aware of every little bug and every tweak he desired to implement but never did. Your Hunchy II is likely an evolution of the Hunchy game featured in the 2005 mini game multicart, and likewise delisting Hunchy II from the AA store would deprive fans of the first title from experiencing the completed work.

 

Everyone starts off small. Many programmers who have been producing homebrew games for as long as you have are now creating mind blowing software, but did not start off that way. For instance SpiceWare's Draconian 2600 (port of Bosconian) literally blows away anything created prior in terms of complexity, but don't think for a minute that he would have the skill set and experience necessary to create such mind blowing games had he not created simpler games prior to creating his Magnum Opus.

 

All I am saying is I think Hunchy II should stay. It makes me sad that a programmer thinks so little of himself that his games should be removed simply because "better stuff exists." Every homebrew is unique as is every back in the day game, and games were meant to have fun. You should be happy that people still enjoy your game enough to buy the cartridge and plug in and play on the original hardware.

 

I hope you have a change in heart, but it is ultimately your decision whether your game stays or goes... :_(

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cd-w, I searched your name in the AA store and found out I already had all the other games you developed or collaborated on (Chetiry is still one of my favs), and I was gonna get Panky The Panda anyway so I threw in Hunchy II with my order. Ultimately the TIA rendition of the Bentley Bear title theme (Teddy Bear Picnic) won me over!

 

 

Your first game just made another sale! ;-)

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OK - I never expected this to generate such strong feelings! Never let it be said that I don't listen to feedback, so I have decided to keep Hunchy 2 in the store. The main reason that I wanted to remove it was my own dissatisfaction with the finished product - I'm now planning to tidy it up around the edges and release an updated version, though it may be another decade before this happens! Apologies to anyone who purchased a copy on the understanding it was being discontinued.

 

Thanks for all the feedback!

 

Chris

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OK - I never expected this to generate such strong feelings! Never let it be said that I don't listen to feedback, so I have decided to keep Hunchy 2 in the store. The main reason that I wanted to remove it was my own dissatisfaction with the finished product - I'm now planning to tidy it up around the edges and release an updated version, though it may be another decade before this happens! Apologies to anyone who purchased a copy on the understanding it was being discontinued.

 

Thanks for all the feedback!

 

Chris

YES. I LOVE HUNCHY 2.

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I promise you, no one who purchased Hunchy II under any circumstance will be looking for an apology. The game is great! Whatever deficiencies you see in the game are due to your unique perspective on the game, I see absolutely nothing wrong with it.

Thank you for keeping it available!

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Apologies to anyone who purchased a copy on the understanding it was being discontinued.

 

Thanks for all the feedback!

 

Chris

Unorthodox marketing strategy for sure, but if your goal was to spread awareness of this game, it worked. No need to appologize! ;-)

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