thinking about getting an 80's computer

[SteveW]

The TI-99/4A wasn't crippled because of cost reduction, it was crippled because it was originally designed to use a special processor that TI was designing, but the processor had so many problems, it never made it into production. So TI threw one of their other processors into it, the TMS9900, and then had to kludge everything together to work with it. The chip wasn't able to refresh RAM, but the video processor could, so all the machine's memory was tied into the video chip, and the CPU only had 256 bytes of memory, and they kludged it together to make the CPU read memory through the video processor. Then they programmed the BASIC interpreter in a second language, GPL. Every time you ran a program in BASIC, it had to be re-interpreted in GPL before the program would access the hardware. A very eccentric design for a home computer. Texas Instruments were creating a replacement for the 99/4A, called the 99/8, that would have blown the doors off the competition in 1983. But it was cancelled at the last minute, and TI got out of the market. I'd love to have a 99/8. 16-bit processor running at 10.7mhz, upgradeable to 5 megabytes! All the kinks of the 99/4A were worked out, and from what I've read, ran incredibly fast. A few die-hard (and very lucky) TI computer users have managed to get the etched circuitboards and spec sheets and build their own.

[supercat]

The TI-99/4A wasn't crippled because of cost reduction, it was crippled because it was originally designed to use a special processor that TI was designing, but the processor had so many problems, it never made it into production.

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Marketing must have also been a factor. The TI can actually do quite a lot if one has an Extended Basic cartridge, or a machine language monitor cartridge, or something, but if one doesn't have any of those things one can't even load and run an assembly-language program off tape.

 

Perhaps TI thought they'd make money on Extended Basic cartridges, but instead they shot themselves in the foot.

[Shannon]

Interesting story there about the Ti/99. I remember writing a 100 line basic program (hangman) and going into K-mart and typing it in on a Ti/99 demo unit they had there. I did this while my mom was shopping there.

 

It actually worked after I corrected a couple minor errors. This was before I owned a computer.

[Shannon]

Side note: I did not know there were adapters to use SD cards and IDE drives on a C64. Links anyone?

IDE64 homepage: http://www.volny.cz/dundera/

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Thanks for the link. Is there anyplace that actually makes the IDE64 for people and ships to the U.S.?

[carlsson]

Modernity Grp, lead by Greg Nacu, sells the IDE64 for $149.

 

In Germany, Protovision lists an IDE64 "deal" for 130 Euro (although not in their online shop) and the MMC64 (smart media only) for 49 Euro.

 

There are quite some new hardware for and around the C64. I have not even mentioned RetroReplay with RRnet, Catweasel (although connects to PC) and a number of other I can't even recall.

[carlsson]

The TI can actually do quite a lot if one has an Extended Basic cartridge, or a machine language monitor cartridge, or something, but if one doesn't have any of those things one can't even load and run an assembly-language program off tape.

I figured that a few years ago when someone had made a TI entry for the MiniGame compo and it took a while to figure out and find the neccessary bits to even load it.

 

To not being able to run a machine code program without extra software, wasn't that partly also a way for TI to have control over the software market? Does the cartridges contain part of the software the machine language monitor cartridge does, or does anything on ROM per automatic have full access to the computer, maybe because it doesn't have to go through the VRAM?

 

I have a faint memory that all the games had to be licensed, but maybe it wasn't that strict. Anyway, requiring extra hardware should be a turnoff to anyone trying to commercially sell tape software.

 

It appears the Tomy Tutor uses a 9995, the same CPU as meant for the 99/8, but divides the clock by four (to 2.7 MHz). Even this unit reads RAM via the video chip. I don't know if that per se dumbs down the system capacity. A number of years ago I stumbled across the home page of a surviving 9900 hacker, who claimed a mandelbrot written in 9900 machine code (running on TI-99, I presume) would be more efficient than one for the 80386. Maybe it was based on ideal conditions?

[SteveW]

I have a faint memory that all the games had to be licensed, but maybe it wasn't that strict. Anyway, requiring extra hardware should be a turnoff to anyone trying to commercially sell tape software.

 

It appears the Tomy Tutor uses a 9995, the same CPU as meant for the 99/8, but divides the clock by four (to 2.7 MHz). Even this unit reads RAM via the video chip. I don't know if that per se dumbs down the system capacity. A number of years ago I stumbled across the home page of a surviving 9900 hacker, who claimed a mandelbrot written in 9900 machine code (running on TI-99, I presume) would be more efficient than one for the 80386. Maybe it was based on ideal conditions?

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TI was fairly strict with cartridge licensing. The beige model TI was designed to lockout 3rd party cartridges. Some cartridges had to be loaded through the expansion port with a device called GRAM Cracker. And Tigervision bypassed the whole thing by putting their games in modules that go through the expansion port instead of cartridges that plug into the cart slot.

 

I'd love to find a Tomy Tutor. From what I've read, TI might have had a hand in developing the Tutor. There seem to be a lot of coincidences of design between the Tomy Tutor and the TI-99/8.

[Famicoman]

Interesting story there about the Ti/99.  I remember writing a 100 line basic program (hangman) and going into K-mart and typing it in on a Ti/99 demo unit they had there.  I did this while my mom was shopping there.

 

It actually worked after I corrected a couple minor errors.  This was before I owned a computer.

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How long was your mom shopping?

[Shannon]

Interesting story there about the Ti/99.  I remember writing a 100 line basic program (hangman) and going into K-mart and typing it in on a Ti/99 demo unit they had there.  I did this while my mom was shopping there.

 

It actually worked after I corrected a couple minor errors.  This was before I owned a computer.

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How long was your mom shopping?

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Long enough for me to type it in. Even though it was 100 lines they were all 1 command per line. This was before I new about command seperators, etc.

 

I used to write alot of my programs out on paper first and then type them in.

[Shannon]

Interesting story there about the Ti/99.  I remember writing a 100 line basic program (hangman) and going into K-mart and typing it in on a Ti/99 demo unit they had there.  I did this while my mom was shopping there.

 

It actually worked after I corrected a couple minor errors.  This was before I owned a computer.

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How long was your mom shopping?

900431[/snapback]

 

Long enough for me to type it in. Even though it was 100 lines they were all 1 command per line. This was before I new about command seperators, etc.

 

I used to write alot of my programs out on paper first and then type them in.

[+remowilliams]

Thanks for the link.  Is there anyplace that actually makes the IDE64 for people and ships to the U.S.?

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Get one of these bad boys - they rock!

 

MMC64 Flash card reader Commodore 64

 

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewI...item=5223916091

 

$70 and he's a US seller. Got mine (and a bunch of other stuff) from him.

[Atari-Jess]

I used to write alot of my programs out on paper first and then type them in.

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Thats what real men do.

[Shannon]

Thanks for the links. Now I have a reason to buy a "real" C64. I've already had my eye on the IDE interface for the Atari 8-bit since I have an extra drive lying around.

 

Sure beats hooking it up to a PC (which is kinda out of the way).

[carlsson]

But still, a 100 line program sounds like you brought the paper with you to type it in while you mother was away?

 

My store hacking only extended to the time I saw a grey VIC-20 with a blue and light blue start-up screen. I knew SYS 64802 to reset it, but for some reason the computer locked up. Later I realize it was no VIC-20, it was a C64.

[Shannon]

Yep...

 

Don't really remember, but probably had it in a spiral notebook.

 

My typing speed was fairly decent at the time cause I was taking typing course .

[Rockin' Kat]

Wheres Super Psycho when you need him? I would sugest a Commodore 64, and/ or any Apple 2. Commodore has great games, Apple has great capabilities. Just go to Retropuring

 

http://particles.org/forums

 

Super Psycho's Apple 2:

 

http://homepage.mac.com/superpsycho/thelab/appleiigsgal.html

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I've been reading but not really too inclined to post here.... I'm really only interested in posting when it's someone who's already got the IIgs and want's to know what they can do with it. Besides, I'm too buisy mucking with my new Amiga 2000 right now.

[Atariboy2600]

For the longest time I been using old pc as far as I can remember, the first computer I ever use was an Apple IIe in my old school and still have it in my storge along with other old PC and my very first home computer was the 1979 Atari 400 and here's just four of them from left to right are,

 

Macitosh Classc II - 1991.

IBM PS/2 with Windows 3.11 - 1991.

Atari 800XL - 1982.

Commodore 64 - 1982.

 

I have more but they are in storage

[Brad2600]

That is a very nice setup, dude! I wish I had the space and outlets to set up both my C64 and 800XL at once. I'm gonna do the next best thing and put the tower for my secondary computer on the floor of my bedroom, freeing up some space for either the 800XL or C64, depending on my mood.

 

If I had more space, I'd probably set up a lot more of my collection.