Atari XL/XE vs ZX Spectrum... And the winner is...

[+x=usr(1536)]

4 hours ago, carlsson said:

This was right after the price wars had begun, but before the 600XL and 800XL models were released. I've read elsewhere that while Atari announced those in the spring-summer of 1983, those models didn't reach customers until very late 1983, possibly even early 1984?

 

I have solid memories of seeing XL advertising in our local Atari retailer for about 5 months before machines came onto the open market in 1984.  Annoyingly, they had an 800XL demonstrator for pretty much that entire time.

 

3 hours ago, carlsson said:

Yes, the BBC Micro was briefly sold in the US. They had to add about 1 - 1.5 kg of metal shielding in order to get it FCC approved. Even on the Beebs sold in Germany, Acorn had to add shielding to get it certified but not quite as much as the US models. If you have both an UK and an US machine, you can actually tell which is which only by weight.

 

IIRC, a sizeable percentage of the NTSC machines were sent back to the UK where they were retrofitted to be 220V PAL machines, but with the RF shielding left in place.

 

2 hours ago, carlsson said:

No idea, perhaps BBC (the broadcasting company) required a RF modulator on UK sold machines and it would take even more work redesigning the motherboard to get rid of it than adding shielding?

 

I believe it was one of the design spec requirements from the government - SCART hadn't achieved wide use at the time it was being designed, and composite inputs were still uncommon.

[carlsson]

Regarding publication dates, I checked the Swedish magazine Min Hemdator, #3 September 1983. It says the deadline for material to the next issue would be October 1, which suggests that they were late at fixating the magazine and send it off to print. It probably came out before October was over, but certainly not before the month. Now Your Computer may have had other practices.

 

In any case, the CEO and the software manager of Vasatronic (Swedish Atari agent, which lasted until a bit into 1984) in that issue present the new 600XL and 800XL models with RRP (2995 and 4995 SEK, which could be compared with the VIC-20 at 1995 and C64 at 3995 SEK). The article doesn't say anything about availability but the new Atari models were anyway presented to the readers back in September. Now the 800XL may have been delayed until January before customers (over here) saw it, like suggested above.

 

Edit: My mistake above, Min Hemdator published every second month so #4 was November 1983 which explains the deadline October 1. In any case, in that issue they write the following (translated):

 

Atari can barely reach half the expected sales  due to delayed deliveries of the new models 600XL and 800XL. This is written during the home computer expo at the end of September, early October and by then the stores announced that the first 600XL would show up "within 2-3 weeks". The 800XL would not arrive until New Year. Now Atari gets assistance of Televerket (the Swedish state owned telephone company) which starts to sell the 600XL in their stores.

 

The major Atari reseller USR Data advertised the brand new 600XL by November but unlike Maplin in the UK didn't dare to mention the 800XL just yet.

Edited February 23, 2021 by carlsson

[youxia]

2 hours ago, carlsson said:

Here are their conclusions:

 

Saying that "Atari has the best games" in 1984 (even if it's January) was quite a claim. It was perhaps still true in early 1983, but in late 1984 both Spectrum and C64 had already some killer soft, and Atari was just starting its tumble downhill in this regard.

 

Atari 600XL was also a curious proposition:  that 159GBP price looks okay, until you realize you'd need to add extra ram to compete with C64, and would be already nearly 3x as dear as Spectrum after adding the tape deck.

[zzip]

27 minutes ago, youxia said:

Saying that "Atari has the best games" in 1984 (even if it's January) was quite a claim. It was perhaps still true in early 1983, but in late 1984 both Spectrum and C64 had already some killer soft, and Atari was just starting its tumble downhill in this regard.

Looking back at old magazines,   in 1983 you can see that nearly every computer game of note was on Atari systems.   1984 was a turning point where C64 came into it's own,  PCs/PCjr were starting to become notable platforms for gaming, but Atari was still fairly strong.

1985 was when everything was on C64 first with Apple + PC second.  If you were lucky you got an Atari port.  I think a lot of this was due to publishers uncertainty of the future of the platform under Tramiel, the situation did improve a bit after.

 

So I think saying Atari had the best games is a reasonable statement through at least the first half of 84

[carlsson]

The computer reseller Spectrum (not to be confused with the ZX Spectrum computer) advertised in March 1984 about "Coming soon: Atari 800XL for £249.95". In their April 1984 advertisement, it was available to buy at that price. It might be a worthless litmus test, assuming that Atari customers in the UK not necessarily would read Your Computer but it says something.

 

For fun, I compared some prices between October 1983 and April 1984, i.e. 6 months apart. I only included models still advertised in 1984, meaning that e.g. VIC-20 was left out.

 

ZX Spectrum 16K: £99.95 (OCT 1983), £99.95 (APR 1984)

ZX Spectrum 48K: £129.95 (OCT 1983), £129.95 (APR 1984)

Oric-1 48K: £139.95 (OCT 1983), £129.95 (APR 1984)

Atari 400: £149.99 (OCT 1983), £129.90 (JAN 1984)

Atari 600XL: £159.95 (APR 1984)

Dragon 32: £175.00 (OCT 1983), £169.95 (APR 1984)

Acorn Electron: £199.00 (OCT 1983), £199.00 (APR 1984)

Commodore 64: £229.00 (OCT 1983), £199.95 (APR 1984)

Atari 800: £299.99 (OCT 1983)

Atari 800XL: £249.95 (APR 1984)

BBC Micro Model B: £399.00 (OCT 1983), £399.00 (APR 1984)

 

To be honest I'm surprised that the listed prices didn't drop more than £30 on the C64 and £5 on the Dragon 32. Perhaps the price war in 1983 had pushed prices too far, plus that the USD was strong in 1984 and the RAM prices were high, giving little or no margins to push the prices. I am also surprised that Atari UK and the resellers managed to keep their prices relatively close to the Commodores (25-30% higher). Over here the Atari 800 and 800XL computers were 55-70% higher priced that the C64, which of course was too high to be competitive. No matter how much you love Atari, you would pay more than 50% premium to own one, or at least I suppose most people who didn't have any preference either way would.

Edited February 23, 2021 by carlsson

[youxia]

17 minutes ago, zzip said:

Looking back at old magazines,   in 1983 you can see that nearly every computer game of note was on Atari systems.   1984 was a turning point where C64 came into it's own,  PCs/PCjr were starting to become notable platforms for gaming, but Atari was still fairly strong.

1985 was when everything was on C64 first with Apple + PC second.  If you were lucky you got an Atari port.  I think a lot of this was due to publishers uncertainty of the future of the platform under Tramiel, the situation did improve a bit after.

 

So I think saying Atari had the best games is a reasonable statement through at least the first half of 84

In 1983 Spectrum already had a slew of killer exclusives such as Atic Atac, Manic Miner, Hobbit or Ant Attack, plus many other great, original games. Overall more than twice releases than Atari this year - Commodore more than thrice. That's not to say that Atari did not have a strong library, but saying it was "best' is rather questionable (nevermind that the prices indeed were quite steep, since many games were on carts).

 

Apple and PC were completely different markets anyway, what with their "serious" games, but PC was just limping along really until maybe 86/87.

[_The Doctor__]

gah the glue factory has restarted with it going way of topic... zx spectrum is the comparison topic.... not commodore... but hey any chance to spread commieism is never missed.... Tramiel vs Tramiel... who had the best computer... bleh.... meh... let's compare crap a half decade or more apart. I had no issues buying crap for any computer, be it Atari, Commodore, x86 whatever even up until 1996.

 

This is the redirected regurgitated thread that never ends, yes it goes on and on my friends, some people started posting in it, not knowing what is was, and they'll continue posting in it forever just because, this is the redirected thread that never ends, yes it goes on and on my friends, some people started posting in it, not knowing what is was, and they'll continue posting in it forever just because, this is the redirected thread that never ends, yes it goes on and on my friends, some people started posting in it, not knowing what is was, and they'll continue posting in it forever just because, this is the redirected thread that never ends, yes it goes on and on my friends, some people started posting in it, not knowing what is was, and they'll continue posting in it forever just because, this is the redirected thread that never ends, yes it goes on and on my friends, some people started posting in it, not knowing what is was, and they'll continue posting in it forever just because, this is the redirected thread that never ends, yes it goes on and on my friends, some people started posting in it, not knowing what is was, and they'll continue posting in it forever just because, this is the redirected thread that never ends, yes it goes on and on my friends, some people started posting in it, not knowing what is was, and they'll continue posting in it forever just because, this is the redirected thread that never ends....

 

Edited February 23, 2021 by _The Doctor__

[zzip]

18 minutes ago, carlsson said:

The computer reseller Spectrum (not to be confused with the ZX Spectrum computer) advertised in March 1984 about "Coming soon: Atari 800XL for £249.95". In their April 1984 advertisement, it was available to buy at that price. It might be a worthless litmus test, assuming that Atari customers in the UK not necessarily would read Your Computer but it says something.

 

For fun, I compared some prices between October 1983 and April 1984, i.e. 6 months apart. I only included models still advertised in 1984, meaning that e.g. VIC-20 was left out.

 

ZX Spectrum 16K: £99.95 (OCT 1983), £99.95 (APR 1984)

ZX Spectrum 48K: £129.95 (OCT 1983), £129.95 (APR 1984)

Oric-1 48K: £139.95 (OCT 1983), £129.95 (APR 1984)

Atari 400: £149.99 (OCT 1983), £129.90 (JAN 1984)

Atari 600XL: £159.95 (APR 1984)

Dragon 32: £175.00 (OCT 1983), £169.95 (APR 1984)

Acorn Electron: £199.00 (OCT 1983), £199.00 (APR 1984)

Commodore 64: £229.00 (OCT 1983), £199.95 (APR 1984)

Atari 800: £299.99 (OCT 1983)

Atari 800XL: £249.95 (APR 1984)

BBC Micro Model B: £399.00 (OCT 1983), £399.00 (APR 1984)

 

To be honest I'm surprised that the listed prices didn't drop more than £30 on the C64 and £5 on the Dragon 32. Perhaps the price war in 1983 had pushed prices too far, plus that the USD was strong in 1984 and the RAM prices were high, giving little or no margins to push the prices. I am also surprised that Atari UK and the resellers managed to keep their prices relatively close to the Commodores (25-30% higher). Over here the Atari 800 and 800XL computers were 55-70% higher priced that the C64, which of course was too high to be competitive. No matter how much you love Atari, you would pay more than 50% premium to own one, or at least I suppose most people who didn't have any preference either way would.

Did Commodore wage their price war as much in Europe too or mostly North America?   Supposedly Texas Instruments was their target.

 

I do remember that after Tramiel took over Atari, he did the Tramiel thing and cut the prices of 800XLs...  that was late 84 or early 85, because that's when we upgraded from a 600XL with failing keyboard to an 800XL

[youxia]

@_The Doctor__ maybe take a few deep breath or something? ?

[carlsson]

Just now, zzip said:

Did Commodore wage their price war as much in Europe too or mostly North America?

From what I can tell, the import prices were cut in Europe too. For instance the C64 dropped over night from 5995 SEK (about $850) to 3995 SEK (about $570) which may seem a bit much considering it was $399 in the USA but then you have VAT and everything else on top.

 

Even in the UK, the Computers for All reseller listed the C64 at £343.85 in August 1983 and £229.00 in October. John Menzies had the C64 at £343.85 already in June 1983, so it seems Commodore worldwide cut their prices by 30-33% in the late summer of 1983.

 

But yes, it is true that this thread begun as a comparison of the Atari XL (Foebane didn't mention if it meant the 600XL or 800XL) and the ZX Spectrum (again, not mentioned if it is the 16K or 48K model). What I pointed out is that you could get between 1.6 and 2.0 ZX Spectrums for the cost of an Atari XL system, so making a straight comparison isn't entirely fair for either brand. The flame war between Commodore and Atari indeed has been going on for years and years, but from a price point of view, it is a much closer comparison.

 

Hey, how about comparing the Atari 800XL to the 64K MSX1 computers? The January 1984 issue of Your Computer had a 20 page MSX special where we can see:

 

Goldstar MSX (64K): £230

Spectravideo SVI-728 (64K): £249 (same as 800XL in April 1984)

Toshiba HX-10 (64K): £279

JVC HC-7GB (64K, available Nov 1984): £279

Canon V-20 (64K): £280

Sanyo MPC-100 (64K): £299

Sony Hit-Bit (64K): £299

Mitsubishi ML-F 80 (64K): £299, ML-F 48 (32K): £249

Yamaha CX-5M (48K?? RAM): £600 including built-in DX synthesizer

 

I kind of think this comparison is more relevant than ZX Spectrum, and shows that despite so many manufacturers, Atari actually held a decent price compared to those.

[_The Doctor__]

The horse needs a breather more than I do.

nearly every thread ends up like this.   woo.... hoo... just rename every thread at this point.. it's always the same...seems like everytime(almost)..without fail...

 

Can't any other computer discussion or comparison happen without this? Nope, because they just cant help it. They have to insert it, no matter the topic or discussion as it will inevitably become this thread... completely sad. This has been slowly killing the forum really, it's beyond boorish, and because we only get a tiny reprieve where it doesn't happen, perhaps a shiny thing- a glimpse before it happens again... Yes finally some nice new good talk about **** blammo it's just about this again. sigh, snore.

 

rubber stamp. I gotta get that fix going in every thread. Topic be damned, just have to do it, and if you have the nerve to try to get back on topic the C-stoppo bands together to bury you in more of it or it will make some comment to keep it right where they want it. Kindly feigning concern if you are okay as the drum head continues.

Edited February 23, 2021 by _The Doctor__

[Mazzspeed]

6 hours ago, Faicuai said:

 

You will get them because for basically two (key) reasons, which make all the difference:

 

1. The kind of system you could build with the Apple/Ii's  architecture and design (introduced in 1977)  are wet dreams even with anything the BBC / Micro came out out of the box in 1981 (FOUR years later !!!). When I read about the "tube", the tiny expansions ports underneath the keyboard and then look at the MONSTER plug-and-play cards available for the Apple/II on eBay (from back in the day), I actually chuckle... :-)) The BBC/B can't compare with the space, expandability and power-handling the Apple/II offers without ever leaving its own chassis / case!

 

2. The SW library built for the Apple/II, especially for education and productivity, essentially dwarfs that of the BBC (four years of market advantage is a LOT of time). Personal computing productivity and office-computing really took-off with VISICALC, which was a masterpiece of ingenuity and development and was launched first for the Apple/II, and required 48 KB to actually run in a more productive manner. 32KB of RAM on the BBC/B did not help much, though. Networking took a very different approach in the US, mostly driven by office-computing, where a product like the BBC would hardly carve a place (unfortunately). 

 

3. From what I have seen and used today, and by reading at the Programming Guida, the best 8-bit DOS (bar-none) is SDX. But I would definitely agree that the BbC had a pretty solid OEM DOS, probably much better than Apple's. SDX file-system's limits are a key indicator (1,421 files or folders PER FOLDER, and only storage limits beyond this !!!) That is without mentioning memory management, extensibility, relocation facilities, user-interface and batch-processing facilities, you name...

 

Having said all of the above, I am actually a big fan of the BBC / Micro. From and industrial design point-of-view, it is a bit awkward and painful to look at, BUT such design very well met some key form-and-function  goals at the market it was aimed, and (internally, what matters the most) it was put together in a way that brought out uncompromised 6502-centric performance... probably better than any other out-of-the-box 6502 system. I think it would still choke with Atari demos like the Impossible and Super Boink, where the Atari's distributed architecture shows its raw strengths, but there was a TON of potential with the BBC.

 

The BBC is a SOLID piece of work and engineering (on its class and time), and the only piece of Hw I would consider adding beyond an Apple/Ii or Atari 800. I can't decide myself between the better BBC master HW or the nimbler / nicer looking BBC /B... ?

 

The Apple II was a very simple system, there is nothing advanced about it's architecture. The architecture of the BBC was, in comparison, quite impressive - Especially considering the Econet and Tube implementations. Most functionality added with the use of expensive for the time cards under the Apple IIe, was available out the box regarding the BBC.

 

SDX is good, there's no doubting that, but it's single user and doesn't allow for individual user accounts with passwords and privilege control like the BBC with Econet. In terms of memory management, a platform like the A8 with such varying configurations almost needs such a feature. The Econet networking implementation was way ahead of it's time and considering the BBC's intent of computers in schools worked unbelievably well. None of these single user stand alone systems each with it's own floppy drive rubbish, it was even possible to set up a dedicated print server each machine would print to.

 

However, it's almost pointless trying to compare both the A8 and the C64 to such machines (including the Spectrum) as the A8 and C64 had advanced for the time designs that made them vastly better suited to gaming, what developers achieved with the Spectrum is breathtaking considering it's simplicity. I had a 600XL in the 80s brand new in the box, I never used it as it was essentially useless with 16k of ram, sadly I ended up throwing it out brand new in the box when I moved out of the parents house (thankfully I got it for free as the electronics retailer couldn't sell it).

Edited February 23, 2021 by Mazzspeed

[xxl]

BBC - a great machine, it is a pity that the constructors imposed draconian restrictions on it. Buy thanks to these limitations, today we can easily port games from the BBC to Atari.

you can see clearly how programs can speed up if they do not refer to OS BBC ?

 

[Faicuai]

7 minutes ago, Mazzspeed said:

The Apple II was a very simple system, there is nothing advanced about it's architecture. The architecture of the BBC was, in comparison, quite impressive

That is the key.

 

The Apple/II (and systems-alike) was never built with the "tiny-computing" mentality that invariably governs smaller designs. Its simple and reliable floppy design and speed SMOKED its competition and brought huge margins to the company (financial health). It is all about the system you can build with it, rather than the system you get in the box. It was about freedom, creativity. And to the same extent the IBM/PC 5150 (which catapulted the industry to stardom!)

 

And history tells us which was the winning design, present even today, alive and well, even in the HP Z840 2696-v4 that is my daily driver in my line of work. The kind of system you can build with it (1.5 to 2.0 TB of RAM!, dual processor sockets, multiple GPUs, etc ) is anyone's guess or choice! 

 

In any case, the nicest thing about all the HW variety from that time is the talented people you find on each community, TODAY. !!.. And that at the end of the day, is what makes the difference, what makes things special, and I have seen such people and ingenuity spread across the Apple, Atari, Commodore, Sinclair, BBC (and others) communities.

 

 

 

 

[emkay]

2 hours ago, zzip said:

 

 

So I think saying Atari had the best games is a reasonable statement through at least the first half of 84

 

Hehe, checked some games of the years  back then.  Atarimania can be really odd by sorting games by years.

From "Lonely Atari titles, to special enhanced games by the usage of POKEY and GTIA , to the "must have played on the Atari, to still the best version , even if late  )

It's an interesting tenor. To me at least

 

 

 

1978?

 

1979  ?

3d Tic Tac Toe

Starraiders

Super Breakout

 

 

1980 (lonely atari)

House of Usher

SCRAM

Space Invaders

 

 

1981 (Different, as most games were on the Atari ... better ..;)  So here are  the best of the best)

Caverns of Mars

Centipede

Convoi

Jaw Breaker

Mouskattack

Protector

Towers of Hanoi

Twerps

 

 

1982

Bandits

Buried Bucks

Canyon Climber

Dig Dug

Frogger

Journey to the Planets

Miner 2049er

Picnic Paranaoia

Preppie

Satan's Hollow

Speedway Blast

Submarine Commander

Thrax Lair

Tumble Bugs

Wayout

 

1983

Alley Cat

Archon

Ardy the Aardvark

Arex

Astro Chase

Axis Assasin

BC's Quest for Tires

Blue Max

Capture the Flag

Diamonds

Donkey Kong jr.

Dragonriders of Pern

Drol

Encounter

Fraction Fever

Gumball

Hard Hat Mack

Hyperblast

Jet Boot Jack

Joust

Juno First

Leap Frog

Monster Smash

Moon Patrol

Mountain King

Mr. Robot and his Factory

M.U.L.E.

Oil's well

Pharaoh's Curse

Pole Position

Pooyan

Quasimodo

Rainbow Walker

Rally Speedway

River Raid

Spelunker

Star Trek

Star Wars - Return of the Jedi - Death Star Battle

Up, Up , and aways

 

1984

Ballblazer

Boulder Dash

Bruce Lee

Dimension X

Dropzone

Gyruss

Last Starfighter

Matterhorn

Montezuma's Revenge

Scrolls of Abadon

Stealth

Surf's up

Tapper

 

 

1985

 

 

Eidolon

Great American Cross Country Road Race

Koronis Rift

Master of the Lamps

Zorro (my personal taste  )

 

1986

 

 

Ninja

 

1987

 

1988

 

 

 

 

[Mazzspeed]

24 minutes ago, Faicuai said:

That is the key.

 

The Apple/II (and systems-alike) was never built with the "tiny-computing" mentality that invariably governs smaller designs. Its simple and reliable floppy design and speed SMOKED its competition and brought huge margins to the company (financial health). It is all about the system you can build with it, rather than the system you get in the box. It was about freedom, creativity. And to the same extent the IBM/PC 5150 (which catapulted the industry to stardom!)

 

And history tells us which was the winning design, present even today, alive and well, even in the HP Z840 2696-v4 that is my daily driver in my line of work. The kind of system you can build with it (1.5 to 2.0 TB of RAM!, dual processor sockets, multiple GPUs, etc ) is anyone's guess or choice! 

 

In any case, the nicest thing about all the HW variety from that time is the talented people you find on each community, TODAY. !!.. And that at the end of the day, is what makes the difference, what makes things special, and I have seen such people and ingenuity spread across the Apple, Atari, Commodore, Sinclair, BBC (and others) communities.

 

 

 

 

The fact such devices are so alive and well today with active communities still developing for them is an amazingly wonderful thing. The older machines had more soul than new Wintel boxes.

[Gury]

Valley of Rains

 

 

[xxl]

platform games... no

 

 

[Faicuai]

18 minutes ago, xxl said:

platform games... no

 

 

 

"Zilog inside"

 

???

 

Looks pretty fluid, smooth. Nice !!

[Mazzspeed]

18 minutes ago, Faicuai said:

 

"Zilog inside"

 

???

 

Looks pretty fluid, smooth. Nice !!

I agree! That is actually surprisingly smooth. In the day that would have been an awesome game if there was some actual enemies (perhaps that would kill it?).

[Faicuai]

6 hours ago, Mazzspeed said:

The Econet networking implementation was way ahead of it's time and considering the BBC's intent of computers in schools worked unbelievably well. None of these single user stand alone systems each with it's own floppy drive rubbish

 

You may want to check the not-so-well-known (but substantial) CORVUS Omninet (early 1980's), not only based on CSMA/CD @ 1 Mbit/sec years before Ethernet, but also encompassing shared, mass-storage with their shared Hard Drives. 

 

Thom is big about networking, and here he explains it with plenty of detail. I believe you will enjoy his (detailed) recount, as well as demo videos with the 800 and Corvus Hard Drive (it seems today accessible from SDX and APT, as well !!):

 

 

Get ready for a good read and watch!

 

Cheers!

Edited February 24, 2021 by Faicuai

[Mazzspeed]

57 minutes ago, Faicuai said:

 

You may want to check the not-so-well-known (but substantial) CORVUS Omninet (early 1980's), not only based on CSMA/CD @ 1 Mbit/sec years before Ethernet, but also encompassing shared, mass-storage with their shared Hard Drives. 

 

Thom is big about networking, and here he explains it with plenty of detail. I believe you will enjoy his (detailed) recount, as well as demo videos with the 800 and Corvus Hard Drive (it seems today accessible from SDX and APT, as well !!):

 

 

Get ready for a good read and watch!

 

Cheers!

I never said it was the first networking standard, I just stated it was one of the best implemented standards at the time. The things you could under Econet were simply amazing, the whole school was networked. I know about the Corvus system and I can quite honestly state that Atari DOS (even as implemented by Corvus) didn't hold a candle to BBC's implementation. I've watched that video before, I take a keen interest in all 8bit systems. The C64 had the Lt. Kernel system, which also didn't hold a candle to BBC's Econet.

 

When it comes to 8bit machines with files in kilobytes, raw network speed isn't as paramount as you may assume. Econet had no perceptible lag over standard floppy drives, the difference is every machine was connected to the same server/mass storage and everyone had their own login with their own mass storage folder. Furthermore, BBC's could talk to other BBC's on the network.

Edited February 24, 2021 by Mazzspeed

[+x=usr(1536)]

2 hours ago, Mazzspeed said:

I know about the Corvus system and I can quite honestly state that Atari DOS (even as implemented by Corvus) didn't hold a candle to BBC's implementation.

I have to agree.  Despite having had minimal exposure to the BBC Micro growing up, that was one feature of it that seriously impressed me when I did use it.  It was arguably better than what was found on any other 8-bit machine capable of disk storage with the possible exception of CP/M systems.

 

BBC BASIC was also really slick.  Procedural BASIC on a 6502?  Yup.

[Mazzspeed]

12 minutes ago, x=usr(1536) said:

I have to agree.  Despite having had minimal exposure to the BBC Micro growing up, that was one feature of it that seriously impressed me when I did use it.  It was arguably better than what was found on any other 8-bit machine capable of disk storage with the possible exception of CP/M systems.

 

BBC BASIC was also really slick.  Procedural BASIC on a 6502?  Yup.

I forgot to mention BBC basic. Agreed, it was fully featured and really nice to code with back in the days of BASIC.

 

What was that other language you used to draw shapes with? Logo? That was sorta cool but boring all at the same time.

 

Under Econet users could be assigned to groups, groups were usually sorted by year level. I worked out at the start of the year when setting up our accounts that if you used the username '.' you got root access to everyone's folder in your group - My first exploit! That was pretty cool, it was also undetectable as I didn't show up as a user in that group.

[emkay]

8 hours ago, xxl said:

platform games... no

 

 

How about some specs?