Why no improvement on 8-bit vs. 5200?

[Sully70]

I know that the Atari 8-bits are essentially the same hardware as a 5200. However, it's amusing that some 8-bit games are identical to the 5200 versions. Why didn't they at least make some improvements? On a side note, has anybody converted or played a conversion of Donkey Kong on a 5200, and if so, was it exactly like the 800 version? If the 5200 had Donkey Kong it would almost overtake the CV for having the best arcade port library. Of course, Ladybug, Mousetrap, Tapper and Spy Hunter will always give the CV a slight edge in completeness. Now I've got a thread that belongs in 3 different forums, so I'll stop there.

[Gunstar]

Most of those games were out on the 8-bit computers BEFORE the 5200 was released, so the 5200 got direct ports of the 8-bit computer originals or in a couple of cases inproved versions already. Some of the Atari XE cartridge games are remakes of earlier versions though, that are improved some. Remember that Atari 800 owners were playing these superior arcade translations on their 8-bits long before the Colecovision and 5200 even existed.

[jetset]

I know that the Atari 8-bits are essentially the same hardware as a 5200. However, it's amusing that some 8-bit games are identical to the 5200 versions. Why didn't they at least make some improvements? On a side note, has anybody converted or played a conversion of Donkey Kong on a 5200, and if so, was it exactly like the 800 version? If the 5200 had Donkey Kong it would almost overtake the CV for having the best arcade port library. Of course, Ladybug, Mousetrap, Tapper and Spy Hunter will always give the CV a slight edge in completeness. Now I've got a thread that belongs in 3 different forums, so I'll stop there.

906293[/snapback]

 

Actually, the 5200 has a pretty complete arcade library. It pretty much has Ladybug and Mousetrap, they just call it "PacMan" on the 5200.

Donkey Kong, Spy Hunter and Tapper were made available more or less for the 5200 as well. Search and ye shall find.

[ZylonBane]

I know that the Atari 8-bits are essentially the same hardware as a 5200. However, it's amusing that some 8-bit games are identical to the 5200 versions.

The word you're fumbling for is "obvious", not "amusing". Since the graphics and sound hardware is 100% identical, there's absolutely nothing surprising about the decision to port some games over unchanged.

 

Why didn't they at least make some improvements?

They did. Qix, Centipede, Space Invaders, and Dig Dug were completely rewritten. Pac-Man had the arcade intermissions added. Star Raiders gained analog control.

[jetset]

I know that the Atari 8-bits are essentially the same hardware as a 5200. However, it's amusing that some 8-bit games are identical to the 5200 versions.

The word you're fumbling for is "obvious", not "amusing". Since the graphics and sound hardware is 100% identical, there's absolutely nothing surprising about the decision to port some games over unchanged.

 

Why didn't they at least make some improvements?

They did. Qix, Centipede, Space Invaders, and Dig Dug were completely rewritten. Pac-Man had the arcade intermissions added. Star Raiders gained analog control.

906348[/snapback]

 

What is amusing to me is that how there are some games that are better on the 800, such as Zaxxon (and a few others for some reason I cant remember offhand...brainfart I 'spose)

[+Cafeman]

Some 5200 games were hamstrung by small ROM cartridge allocations. Zaxxon -- I think it was only 16K. The 8bit version that is either24K or 32K (Can't accurately remember which one) was MUCH closer to the coin-op. And I also believe the CV Zaxxon was more than 16K too, in fact I remember checking the sizes of CV games in general and they were often over 16K. So the bottom line is, had Atari not been so cheap (and how much more expensive could 32K been over 16K anyway?), the 5200 could have had even more rockin' games on par with the A8's.

[Sully70]

Thanks... Zylon had some good points about improvements, Pac-Man the most obvious one that I overlooked. I've yet to buy any homebrew carts, by DK may be worth getting. Tapper also.

[ZylonBane]

how much more expensive could 32K been over 16K anyway?

Hmmm. Twice as expensive?

[supercat]

how much more expensive could 32K been over 16K anyway?

Hmmm. Twice as expensive?

906473[/snapback]

 

I believe 32Kx8 ROMs have been out for quite awhile; the incremental cost of a larger ROM is actually fairly small if there's no requirement for extra logic to go with it. On the 2600, 4K emerged as a ubiquitous cartridge size early on because going to an 8K cartridge typically required adding 2-4 extra chips in addition to using a larger ROM. I would not expect such an issue going from 16K to 32K on a 5200 cart, though I'll admit I don't know how the system was designed.

[NE146]

When you say 5200, 400 or 800.. to me you're talking about exactly the same thing. So it's kind of futile to make comparisons really... beyond minutiae game differences.

[emkay]

What is amusing to me is that how there are some games that are better on the 800, such as Zaxxon (and a few others for some reason I cant remember offhand...brainfart I 'spose)

906375[/snapback]

 

In the start, HW was too expensive to have a "megacart" to put all gamedata in, and 16K was the max. for modules.

And, while the HW got cheaper & cheaper, the question has to be: Why no improvement at all.

What the A8 really missed was some kind of "coding experience" in the early years. It seems (most of) all coders of the past were using the A8 only for learning to code. And for better results, they bought better machines.

As Demos of today show, the A8 had much more possibilites for games even in graphics, sound & gameplay.

 

The worsed hoax (for me) of ATARI was the release of Food Fight in 1987...

 

http://www.atarimania.com/detail_soft.php?...VERSION_ID=2036

 

It looks like a coder-trainee tried to make a game in 1979.

[mos6507]

I know that the Atari 8-bits are essentially the same hardware as a 5200. However, it's amusing that some 8-bit games are identical to the 5200 versions.

The word you're fumbling for is "obvious", not "amusing". Since the graphics and sound hardware is 100% identical, there's absolutely nothing surprising about the decision to port some games over unchanged.

 

Why didn't they at least make some improvements?

They did. Qix, Centipede, Space Invaders, and Dig Dug were completely rewritten. Pac-Man had the arcade intermissions added. Star Raiders gained analog control.

906348[/snapback]

 

Is Star Raiders really analog? the harder you push on the stick the faster you turn?

[Lord Helmet]

You mentioned Donkey Kong. It has been converted to the 5200. I have it, and it plays exactly like the 8-bit version. It kicks the CV versions ass. The controlls suck, but I use a Wicco stick instead of the stock 5200 stick so that's not an issue for me.

[krupkaj]

Is Star Raiders really analog?  the harder you push on the stick the faster you turn?

906568[/snapback]

hmm it should be nice to have analog control for A800 either. So is possible to backport it?

 

BTW Has 5200 version of Rescue on Fractalus analog control too?

[Sully70]

Yes, the Atari 8-bit Donkey kong is virtually identical to the arcade game. Even the subtle way he jumps, it's got that floating and springing feel to it. So much more fluid than the CV version. The CV version I only play when I've got the CV hooked up and don't feel like changing over to the other system.

[Lord Helmet]

Yes, the Atari 8-bit Donkey kong is virtually identical to the arcade game. Even the subtle way he jumps, it's got that floating and springing feel to it. So much more fluid than the CV version. The CV version I only play when I've got the CV hooked up and don't feel like changing over to the other system.

908178[/snapback]

 

I remember being really blown away with the CV version back in the day. Playing it now, after playing the 5200 version, it seems soooo inferior. Actually sad since an arcade perfect version of DV would be possible on the CV. It would be nice to see a CV programer do DK right.

[NE146]

Yes, the Atari 8-bit Donkey kong is virtually identical to the arcade game.

 

Well.... I wouldn't exactly say THAT. It's pretty far from the arcade game in many ways, but it's fun and excellent enough in it's own right.

[Goochman]

It wasnt until I got that I realize the difference in DK between the 8bit and arcade - however, I think the 8bit version is more 'arcadey' in play than the original - I like the speed and smoothness of the character movement vs the arcade version which feels like Mario is running against a wind storm

[Gunstar]

Is Star Raiders really analog?  the harder you push on the stick the faster you turn?

906568[/snapback]

hmm it should be nice to have analog control for A800 either. So is possible to backport it?

 

BTW Has 5200 version of Rescue on Fractalus analog control too?

907464[/snapback]

 

Yes to both. although I gave my 5200 away a year ago, I definately know that SR is TRUE analog, and IIRC, so is Rescue, but don't set my word in stone on Rescue, you can with SR though...

[CaptainCaputo]

most 5200 games were direct ports from the 8-bit