Do you have ghosting images on the 2600?

[Adriana]

This is something that has been bugging me for a long time. Does anyone else have image problems with certain cartridges? I'm talking about not having the cleanest looking image... you know, where the images are sort of shadowed or ghosted (especially on a black background)?

 

This problem occurs on certain cartridges of mine (most notably Double Dragon) but not on others, where the image is completely clean and beautiful. I want my images to look as snazzy as they do on an emulator!

 

Does anyone else have this problem with their 2600, or know what the possible problem/solution is? Thanks...

[Jetboot Jack]

I'm gonna guess that the problem is the RF output of the 2600 in question - some screen images just look better than others through the little 'ole modulator

 

sTeVE

 

P.S. Some collegues recognized yer band. nice one!

[Paul Slocum]

Some cartridges have better internal RF shielding than others. I notice interference most on homebrew cartridges since they generally have the shielding removed. Only certain TVs that I own have this problem. I was able to reduce the problem by getting a Phono to F adapter at Radio Shack instead of a switch box:

 

Atari Hookups

 

-Paul

[Skatepunk60]

Yep that be the problem the rf outputs kinda weak from the 2600 the phono to f cuts out all interfrernce and get to the point

[Adrian M]

Definitely an RF problem.

 

Try a new switchbox.

[Adriana]

But I've GOT the phono plug-to-F adapter from Radio Shack. And this problem still happens. The thing is, it's NOT consistant. A few cartridges have the ghosting. But most of them do not -- the images are clean and fine.

 

Did I just get a few bad cartridges, or is my unit just not friendly to these carts. Seems really weird, either way...

[Paul Slocum]

I hooked up my TV setup that has the worst ghosting problem and experimented with it. You're right -- while the Phono/F adapter helped on my big TV with a minor RF interference, it didn't help much with the ghosting on this TV. The only thing that helped was moving my 2600 Jr. aside and hooking up my heavy sixer. It didn't completely get rid of the ghosting, but it was a lot better than the Jr. I also tried better RF cables and switching channels but neither helped.

 

The odd thing is that I never have ghosting problems on my old black and white TV or my Toshiba 27".

 

Radio Shack has a few types of RF filters. I wonder if they would help?

 

-Paul

[Noble Kale]

I can get this effect if I change the darkness/brightness & some of the colour controls on my tv. The effect is most noticeable on Asteroids - with the black background, the ship, asteroids, etc... leave slight trails as they move across the screen.

I find that by making the brightness a little higher (though not so high that black becomes grey), the problem is lessened considerably (though, I don't consider it much of a problem - it looks cool sometimes). That said, I doubt its a problem with the switchbox, as I can also get a normal signal just as easily. (I can get my 2600 to work perfectly on my tv.. its just that when I'm bored I screw around with the colours...)

[CaliColts]

U sure your not playing Pac-Man???

[Joel D. Park]

Buld youself a full body armor of Aluminum foil, and put an aluminum pie plate on your head. This will protect you and the Atari from outside signals.

 

Also, you might try changing the channel on the Atari 2600, I'm not 100% sure, but all atari's may not have the Channel 2 and 3 switch on them but most have it. Maybe the signal for channel 3 it extra powerful, you may do better by switching to channel 2.

[Mister VCS]

ADRIAN: please look at my reply at the HARDWARE forum, topic 2600 picture

quality page 2

I know your problem very well!

Wich 2600 do you use? I guess it is a 2600 A (four switches, woody or black).

[satyrsfaction]

OK, this may be a stupid question, but I got the F to Phono adapter.....what do you do with it? it doesn't seem to plug in anywhere.

[Video]

That is a plug so you don't need a switchbox, which causes static, or at least can.

 

On ghosting, I think it's a limitation of hardware or something. I've noticed it on many games (and even other systems bitd) most notable, I'd say blue bleeds a lot, think the ice crystal guys on Mario bros, who have a dark border down one side, and blue eyes, despite being monochromatic light blue sprites.

 

The effect never really bothered me, but it may be different from system to system, cart to cart, and crt to crt. If it was consistent, I'd think some games would have been programmed to make use of this, er, "feature" to give more colors, or a 3d effect to games.

[satyrsfaction]

1 minute ago, Video said:

That is a plug so you don't need a switchbox, which causes static, or at least can.

 

On ghosting, I think it's a limitation of hardware or something. I've noticed it on many games (and even other systems bitd) most notable, I'd say blue bleeds a lot, think the ice crystal guys on Mario bros, who have a dark border down one side, and blue eyes, despite being monochromatic light blue sprites.

 

The effect never really bothered me, but it may be different from system to system, cart to cart, and crt to crt. If it was consistent, I'd think some games would have been programmed to make use of this, er, "feature" to give more colors, or a 3d effect to games.

I have pretty severe ghosting -- but I still don't understand where you plug it in.

[alex_79]

If you're in the US, you screw the adapter to the antenna F-connector on the back of your TV, then plug the rca cable coming from the Atari console on the adapter.

 

If you're in Europe, that adapter is useless as

1- TVs use a different connector for antenna (Belling-Lee connector)

2- The RF cable of PAL Atari already has the right connector and just plugs directly in PAL TVs. No adapter required.

 

[satyrsfaction]

22 minutes ago, alex_79 said:

If you're in the US, you screw the adapter to the antenna F-connector on the back of your TV, then plug the rca cable coming from the Atari console on the adapter.

 

If you're in Europe, that adapter is useless as

1- TVs use a different connector for antenna (Belling-Lee connector)

2- The RF cable of PAL Atari already has the right connector and just plugs directly in PAL TVs. No adapter required.

 

I don't understand. I must have the wrong thing, because what you're saying won't work. can you give me a link to what I'm supposed to have?

[alex_79]

https://atariage.com/store/index.php?l=product_detail&p=42

[Mr SQL]

On 6/21/2020 at 10:32 AM, Video said:

That is a plug so you don't need a switchbox, which causes static, or at least can.

 

On ghosting, I think it's a limitation of hardware or something. I've noticed it on many games (and even other systems bitd) most notable, I'd say blue bleeds a lot, think the ice crystal guys on Mario bros, who have a dark border down one side, and blue eyes, despite being monochromatic light blue sprites.

 

The effect never really bothered me, but it may be different from system to system, cart to cart, and crt to crt. If it was consistent, I'd think some games would have been programmed to make use of this, er, "feature" to give more colors, or a 3d effect to games.

Yes what you are describing is artifacting caused by idiosyncrasies in the NTSC color signal.

 

It is possible to leverage these artifacts to make use of it like you surmised to give more colors, texture mapping and other effects games.

 

Here is a computer art picture I drew in the 80's that is actually a black and white image:

 

I've used these effects in games in the 80's on other systems and in several Atari games like this one.

What's interesting here is we found these colors were more pronounced with "bad video" with Chroma leakage - adding a composite mod often corrects for this and reduces the effects, and the effects are not present on PAL; no color signal noise.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

   

[ubersaurus]

For what it's worth I've seen it act differently on different consoles. My four switch consoles both have the color bleed on light blue, etc. but it doesn't appear at all on my 2600 Jr. I just chalk it up to being funkiness with the video hardware circuits on different revisions.