Opinions about the N64

[+Omegamatrix]

I always liked Rogue Squadron, Shadows of the Empire, and of course Goldeneye for the N64. One more title I like most people don't talk about is Tetrisphere. Addicting game if you like puzzle games.

[Chickybaby]

* Nintendo's stubborness to stick with carts was the most decisive negative factor in N64's image during its days. The industry and consumers embraced and moved forward to CD technology, making the system look limited and crippled in many consumer minds.

* One of the areas carts crippled the N64 was audio. Nintendo tought people would be fine with MIDI soundtracks for its games. The Playstation raised the bar with cd-quality music. It was only understandable gamers were put off by N64's lacking music quality.

[To be fair devs eventually learned to cram music files to avoid this shortcoming. RARE did some ingenious use of dynamic midi music with Banjo Kazooie.]

*Some people didn't like the controller. The three prong approach confused many and deterred some.

I would agree with those statements. Also didn't like the design of the controller. I really don't care about intro videos - just get me to the game play!

I don't like RPGs or story type games, Mario I'm fairly ambivalent on, and play Fighting and FPS and Racing games so I'd say that the system wasn't really designed for players like me anyway.

 

I do have to add that there are still N64 games being sold for 20-40$ and that's a turn off to me considering what games cost for other systems and if you go to big name stores like Game Stop and EB they still charge a load for a lot of the games. I've seen people put 10+ $ price tags at N64 games at yard sales even, and I don't understand why at all.

 

At least for me it's hard to justify a more expensive system for just a few games. The genesis for example may have a heck of a lot more cruddy games but the cost of even the good games is much cheaper as well as liking Dreamcast games and they are cheaper as well. NES games are also fairly inexpensive. Usually when playing games I'll play one of those systems or my GBA before our N64 even though we have tons of games for it.

The N64 seems to have fallen in the cracks except when it comes to price but that can go back to carts being more expensive then CD's to make.

 

At least for me it's a forgotten system and with everything else we have there really is enough variety elsewhere to play.

Edited September 22, 2005 by Chickybaby

[Dones]

Some publishers (in an effort to reduce losses) made direct to Blockbuster releases

 

how does that work, dollars and cents wise?

 

anyways i still want to get my hands on the BB exclusive indiana jones and the infernal machine

936559[/snapback]

I am no expert but this is what I remember reading: Instead of taking a risk at retail and ordering an high amount of carts to be manufactured, publishers would order the minimum amount allowed by Nintendo and sell them all to BlockBuster at a break even price. That way they would still make some money and avoid possible losses on unsold carts.

 

The Indy cart was a direct to Blockbuster release, so it was a limited run. Lucasarts eventually sold it through their website. The game is quite good. If you like Tomb Raider-type games then this one is for you. I hear it has become a sought after title for N64 collectors.

[JB]

* One of the areas carts crippled the N64 was audio. Nintendo tought people would be fine with MIDI soundtracks for its games. The Playstation raised the bar with cd-quality music. It was only understandable gamers were put off by N64's lacking music quality.

[To be fair devs eventually learned to cram music files to avoid this shortcoming. RARE did some ingenious use of dynamic midi music with Banjo Kazooie.]

I assume your misuse of MIDI is a reference to sample-based music as opposed to streaming audio. Which the PS does too in several places, though limited sample RAM (a measly half meg) made it difficult to do with quality samples.

 

N64 should be capable of streaming(hell, they did it on the SNES), though there's no easy way to identify if a game does or doesn't stream the music.

 

As a side-note, the N64 has sound hardware with a 48KHz sample rate and can take 16- or 24-bit samples.

CD quality is 16-bit, 44.1 KHz.

The PS1 was CD-quality max, I believe. I know the sample rate is 44.1. I'm not sure on the sample size, but I THINK it was 16-bit(it certainly wasn't less, and I doubt it was more given the small RAM).

 

 

I make no statement about the actual compositions played on the system, but the N64 has the better sound hardware.

 

 

 

 

For the record, MIDI is a complete communications protocol for digital music devices, and is very commonly used in the professional field.

 

Most of your CD audio tracks are "MIDI music."

 

 

It's a somewhat simplistic standard, as it offers no way to specify what voices should be used, and consequently sounds signifigantly diffrent in diffrent hardware configurations.

This has earned it a very bad name in the consumer market, largely from improper use on PCs.

 

When used properly it offers very high audio quality while remaining extremely versatile.

 

* Some people didn't like the controller. The three prong approach confused many and deterred some. People back then were wowed by the Playstation and the dualshock. It's design is deeply ingrained in people's mind and used by comparison even to this day. (I happen to like the controller [it works extremely well for emulation] but that's me).

DualShock was post-N64.

People back then were wowed by the original digital-only PS controller.

 

I personally disliked the N64 controller. It felt a bit crowded to me when using the analog stick.

 

The 5 wasted buttons(okay button + d-pad) also bothered me, particularly when games wound up being short a button. But I've been known to be excessively nitpicky, and this is undoubtedly such a case.

 

 

 

The rest of the post I agree with whole-heartedly.

Edited September 23, 2005 by JB

[shadow460]

Wow, I figured this might turn into a "get a Gamecube" thread, but it didn't!

As a fanboy, I'm offended by any negative posts about the N64, and they may not be placed here.

Kidding, although I do see more good posted here than bad.

 

I've never wore out an analog stick on the thing--my controllers have died when the circuit card breaks due to impact. I've since quit throwing the controllers! The ones I have now are at least eight years old.

 

The cartridges are bittersweet. They don't eliminate load times completely, but they come close. The one I notice load times the worst in is Goldeneye, but it's short. Compare Goldeneye's three second load time that occurs every ten to fifteen minutes (if you're good--one to three minutes if you're not) with Unreal Tournament, which in that time could take over a full minute to load on a good PC.

I guess I'm neutral about whether a system has optical discs or cartridges. Carts are a little nicer as a collector's item, IMO.

 

I guess finding the Indiana Jones game without a "64 shield" sticker would be next to impossible.

 

Someone mentioned that they'd prefer PSX and Saturn over N64. N64 was the last system of that generation that I bought. I can't decide if it's better than Saturn, but for me they both far outshine PSX. The most used system is my 7800, followed by the N64, Saturn, PS2 (PSX titles included), Dreamcast, and then my Game Gear, which still has dust on it from 1997.

 

What's re attracted me to the N64 is the price of its games versus the quality. I feel like Nintendo had better potential with their games than Sony did. Sony was more popular, but you have to know which PSX titles are good, and which ones were crap. I found that most of the time, I could judge an N64 title by the box or some write ups about it, and I knew if I'd like or dislike it before I paid $80. Now the price contributes directly to my small collection. Back then I wasn't about to spend more than a few dollars on a game if I wasn't sure I would like it. I still won't, but it's easier to justify paying $10 than it was $70. Now with carts being $10 on average (to my knowledge anyway), it might be the time to collect for the N64.

It's odd, but I think that the carts are driving their own prices down. DVD's seem to be the way people want to go now, I think. Carts cost more to make, but people pay more for discs. Aren't we humans odd?

[Dones]

I assume your misuse of MIDI is a reference to sample-based music as opposed to streaming audio.

I didn't misuse anything you nitpick-freak. I referred to MIDI music in the general sense of the word. I have composed music in MIDI to know enough about the standard so bug off. Go correct somebody else.

Edited September 23, 2005 by Dones

[JB]

I assume your misuse of MIDI is a reference to sample-based music as opposed to streaming audio.

I didn't misuse anything you nitpick-freak. I referred to MIDI music in the general sense of the word.

As far as I'm aware of, it's not MIDI music by ANY definition if nothing complies to the MIDI standard. Which the N64 doesn't.

[Dones]

Bring the proof nerd brain.

[Cybergoth]

Hi there!

 

The N64 makes me vomit.

 

For real. No kidding. Its 3D hardware causes motion sickness and after less than 30 minutes...

 

Greetings,

Manuel

[JB]

Bring the proof nerd brain.

936901[/snapback]

 

That the term MIDI only applies to MIDI devices? It seems quite self-evident.

 

If oyu mean that the N64 adheres to the MIDI standard, I believe it falls upon you to demonstrate that out of the infinite possible ways to command a piece of hardware they chose the MIDI protocol, particularly as they had no need for the portability or interoperability that makes MIDI desirable and have been known to use features not present in any variant of the MIDI standard.

[Dones]

So you obviously don't know what you are talking about. If you can't prove what you claim, then don't go off correcting people by making stuff up.

Edited September 23, 2005 by Dones

[+Omegamatrix]

Hi there!

 

The N64 makes me vomit.

 

For real. No kidding. Its 3D hardware causes motion sickness and after less than 30 minutes...

 

Greetings,

Manuel

936907[/snapback]

LMAO that was a funny post! When I first played the very last level in Shadows of the Empire it mad me quite dizzy. It took a while to get used to the 3D motion in outer space. My boss at the time told me she threw up playing it.

[Ringman]

You wanna talk about motion sickness? Play Turok! Go running through the forest, climb up a wall, then dive into the water, jump off a cliff, after you respawn go look for an invincibility item, and if you don't feel the slightest queasy after all that, I commend you.

 

For a better challenge, do all of this in pen and ink mode!

[Flojomojo]

Hi there!

 

The N64 makes me vomit.

 

For real. No kidding. Its 3D hardware causes motion sickness and after less than 30 minutes...

 

Greetings,

Manuel

936907[/snapback]

LMAO that was a funny post! When I first played the very last level in Shadows of the Empire it mad me quite dizzy. It took a while to get used to the 3D motion in outer space. My boss at the time told me she threw up playing it.

936946[/snapback]

Really? Only the Turok games on N64 do that to me -- something about the narrow field of vision they use.

 

Shadows of the Empire and Goldeneye are among the few FPS games I have played to completion precisely *because* they don't make me sick. They're also slow enough not to make me dizzy. Halo on the XBOX is a lot like Goldeneye in that regard for me.

 

The blurry Perfect Dark however ... *heaves* I tried, I really did, but it was too difficult to take those graphics by the time it was released. It would have been better with the scaled down visuals of Goldeneye. Sometimes less is more.

 

F Zero X is one of my favorite racing games EVER. Wave Race, Tetrisphere, Blast Corps, Pilotwings, Mario, Zelda --- none of these were topped in Cube form, IMHO. Rogue Squadron II was a little better than the original, I suppose.

[Dones]

Have you seen Goldeneye and Perfect Dark through emulation? It plays a lot better. You should try it out.

 

I tought [PD] graphics were pushing the console as far as it could possibly go. It was cool RARE put in there the option to use a higher resolution, but the framerate took a considerable hit. I would have preferred they had given you an option to turn off the lightining effects in favor of a smoother framerate.

Edited September 23, 2005 by Dones

[JB]

So you obviously don't know what you are talking about. If you can't prove what you claim, then don't go off correcting people by making stuff up.

936916[/snapback]

Why not? You are. And on top of that, you're claiming that the music sucks because it uses an undocumented MIDI interface, even though MIDI has no bearing on sound quality.

 

 

BUT...

 

As far as I know, MIDI sucks for sound effect control, though I may be mistaken here.

Note that the N64 does not have seperate musici and sound effect hardware.

 

 

And MIDI does not function well when large numbers of commands have to be sent at once, and starts lagging. This is a documented flaw with the interface, not hypothesis on my part.

The N64 has a hundred independent voices. That's quite a good way to start your MIDI stream lagging.

 

 

Given MIDI's shortcomings, and that the hardware was designed to run well in excess of MIDI's limitations, I see no reason whatsoever to assume a MIDI interface to the sound hardware.

[BydoEmpire]

I got an N64 on launch day with Mario 64 and I was totally blown away. Virtually every game I had for it was pure gold. Wave Race, KI Gold (yes, I liked it), Mario Kart 64, Goldeneye, Paper Mario, Mario Tennis, Zelda... The list goes on and on. People love to bash the N64, but i had a TON of fun. Definitely my #1 console in that generation. I don't play it a lot anymore, though. My eyes too accustomed to 30 or 60 fps.

[shadow460]

Yeah, many first person N64 titles can me wanna woof if I play em' too long.

 

I watched my friend play Unreal Tournament in Glide (Voodoo 5, baby!) on my PC. Now there's a real puke maker.

 

One day I was kinda down, so I drank many,many ounces of 190 proof Everclear. I must have downed eight ounces straight, and then mixed even more with some orange pop. Was I ever siiiick...

 

...but I beat all my best scores in wipEout!

[Dones]

So you obviously don't know what you are talking about. If you can't prove what you claim, then don't go off correcting people by making stuff up.

936916[/snapback]

Why not? You are. And on top of that, you're claiming that the music sucks

Nope you are the one who's been doing the claiming and the sucking. I didn't say anything of the sort. You are just making stuff up again.

 

because it uses an undocumented MIDI interface, even though MIDI has no bearing on sound quality.

Wrong again pointdexter. N64 has documented MIDI capabilities. You just let your lips flap without knowing.

 

As far as I'm aware of, it's not MIDI music by ANY definition if nothing complies to the MIDI standard. Which the N64 doesn't.

936897[/snapback]

 

Can you prove it? I ask you before and you backpedaled. If you know so much about the subject then this should be simple for you (right?). No need to sidestep with techno-babble like you been doing. Just prove it.

Edited September 24, 2005 by Dones

[JB]

So you obviously don't know what you are talking about. If you can't prove what you claim, then don't go off correcting people by making stuff up.

936916[/snapback]

Why not? You are. And on top of that, you're claiming that the music sucks

Nope you are the one who's been doing the claiming and the sucking. I didn't say anything of the sort. You are just making stuff up again.

 

* One of the areas carts crippled the N64 was audio. Nintendo tought people would be fine with MIDI soundtracks for its games. The Playstation raised the bar with cd-quality music. It was only understandable gamers were put off by N64's lacking music quality.

You've never felt obligated to prove this.

 

because it uses an undocumented MIDI interface, even though MIDI has no bearing on sound quality.

Wrong again pointdexter. N64 has documented MIDI capabilities. You just let your lips flap without knowing.

I've never seen any such documentation. And I HAVE looked.

If you DO have proof, present it instead of just throwing a hissy fit.

 

As far as I'm aware of, it's not MIDI music by ANY definition if nothing complies to the MIDI standard. Which the N64 doesn't.

936897[/snapback]

 

Can you prove it? I ask you before and you backpedaled. If you know so much about the subject then this should be simple for you (right?). No need to sidestep with techno-babble like you been doing. Just prove it.

Yes. There's a HUGE pile of documentation that says "Sound: Not-MIDI audio"

 

 

I've seen nothing that even IMPLIES MIDI capability.

If you have something that does, then you need to show it. Otherwise, you're just as full of shit as you're accusing me of being.

 

 

 

 

And you STILL haven't dealt with the fact that the N64 uses > CD quality audio.

[Famicoman]

On the controller: I used to be awesome handling it. My thumb sick is now almost broken because of over-use. It fit my hand nicely. I played X-Box for a while, went back to N64, and my hands just felt too big for it.

 

On the Graphics: They are quite difficult to get used to. I do good with them, but have to take an advil every once in a while. Never threw up though.

[Chickybaby]

Hi there!

 

The N64 makes me vomit.

 

For real. No kidding. Its 3D hardware causes motion sickness and after less than 30 minutes...

 

Greetings,

Manuel

936907[/snapback]

 

I get Migraines and sometimes I get motion sick from certain 3d games as well. Try taking Dramamine or an anti motion sickness pill. Occasionally it helps for me.

[sukotsu9]

My family bought a N64 when I could see that PlayStation was going to win out. My sister was really bummed, cos better games were coming out for the PS. It's like spending all your funds on a 7800 when you know the NES is the way to go, but you're stuck on Atari. Nonetheless, I've recently cranked up the N64 because XG/XG-2 (as poor as the framerate is) isn't nearly as much fun on a PS/PS2. I just got Top Gear Rally off eBay; that game is loads of fun!

 

See, that's the problem: a system will have a stand-out game that begs you to hang onto the system years after it's obsolete! My NES game is "Fantasy Zone", my SNES is MK3 (plus Super GameBoy games), and there's the Ataris...

 

And about sound: I've got WWF: No Mercy for N64, and I read that the poor sound is actually highly compressed MP3 (which it sounds like). As for MIDI, I don't know.

Edited September 25, 2005 by sukotsu9

[dalton4life]

Nostaligically and as a collector I love the N64. You can find many of the games for cheap and serveral games were quite good. N64 had the very best wrestling games at the time. If I only owned an N64 as my only system when it was out I would have been pissed since the games were often double the price of PS1 games, didn't have CD quality sound (compare the sound of SoTH to anything the N64 offers) and worst of all games were few and far between. The N64 has some charm for me too because it was the last system to use cartridges but Nintendo should have made it a CD system. It would have been better for everyone and probably would have made it the top system during it's time.

Edited September 27, 2005 by dalton4life

[shadow460]

Yeah, a big reason for me buying the system was certain games.

Too bad Worldwide Soccer, Star Fox, and wipEout XL were all released on different systems.

I think I've got a hang on game for every system except the DC and Game gear. for the Saturn it's Shining the Holy Ark and Virtual On. For the 7800 it just has to be Asteroids, and Ballblazer is getting more fun, too.