Why buy homebrew?

[MattyXB]

I love Atari 2600 VCS games and have buy me too some homebrew games, becasue they look great and have a good gameplay.

I own these:

 

Crazy Valet (ebay.de)

Merlin's Walls (ebay.de)

Multi-Cart (ebay.de)

Pesco (ebay.de)

Warring Worms #28 (from the author)

 

And I hope to get some more soon.

[jahfish]

my homebrew collection ....

 

ebivision pesco with small card (limited)

ebivision merlin walls

 

hozer Alphanumeric Madness with own text (2)

hozer Console Wars

hozer Thrifting Simulator

hozer Rescue Bira Bira

hozer Boing Amiga Demo

hozer Fat Albert

HozerQuest: Thrifting Simulator (now with new label)

Hozer Video Demo Cart

hozer Tetris26

hozer Edtris 2600

hozer Thrust (hopefully will be signed soon)

hozer Alphanumeric Madness

hozer Kamikaze Saucers

hozer Tazer

hozer Elk Attack

hozer this planet sucks

hozer mondo pong

hozer pac-invader

hozer okie dokie

hozer high bid

hozer cubis

Video Simon (now with new label)

 

17 different Label Variations from the FLC2, all on original carts

 

Crazy Vallet #48

QB #71

SynthCart #18

 

SCSide

Smart patrols test cart

 

7800 High Score Cartridge by Curt Vendel (signed)

7800 ntsc KLAX

 

2600 Secret Agent

2600 Combat 2

2600 Bugs Bunny (soon)

 

sean kelly multicart (with dipswitches)

sean kelly multicart (new with menue)

 

and i am sure i forgot something

 

 

i tried to get as much as possible from the original makers, paying or trading for it, and it was interesting to "meet" all these people ...

 

when the bitrod theory becomes true, i will still be able to play those games another 20 years ....

 

so it's isn't about real or unreal homebrews, it's about supporting the author and the gaming community ... and about thinkig for the future

 

 

maybe my family in 598 years will still have my console and play from time to time ... this will be THE atari year ....

 

budisths i'm comming! another 9 or 10 lives and it's party time

 

 

 

the atari game collecting isn't something generated by the media hype, so after all .... isn't this collecting community also a "homebrew" kinda thing?

 

AA, welcome to the planet of the homebrew apes!

 

haha ... AtariApes

 

(sorry for trying to be funny again and again, i just got overbidden on mangia for a ridiculous ammount when my internet connection dropped and needed 10 minutes to get me a clean connection again ... aaaarrrrgh!)

[ubersaurus]

My homebrews:

Vault Assault (from Author)

NTSC Sentinel (7800)

NTSC Klax (7800)

Cuttle Cart

Intellicart

its a start!

[Joel D. Park]

I've got quite a pile of homebrews myself. I've been really happy with most of the games I've gotten. I can't say enough good things about This Planet Sucks, I believe it's only 16 bucks at Hozer.

 

Thrust is incredible, Oystron awesome. Folks make a very small amount from their homebrews, the cost is in the materials to make them. I doubt anyone makes enough money to make up for the time they spend making the carts.

 

I've definately not given all the credit for the homebrews I've played like they deserve. And heck, at the point where my atari collection is now, any games I buy are going to be over 20 bucks anyhow, might as well buy the cheaper homebrews instead.

[kingpong]

While I have a bunch of respect for the skill demonstrated and the effort put forth by homebrew authors, I simply do not like the idea of homebrew carts. For some reason, they seem to cheapen the image of the non-homebrews. It is only partially a quality thing, as there are certainly several homebrews that can hold their own among the better original carts. We do seem to be doing better now than at first, when most of what we were getting were little more than text scrolling demos and such (Edtris was good, but it was a while after that until something else decent came about).

 

I think more than anything it is that the romantic memory of the classic era is shattered by the modern homebrews. Once upon a time there were very few people who could write 2600 games, closed systems with very limited tools and such. At a younger age, it seemed almost miraculous that these games could be made. Now today your average Joe is writing a 2600 game. We have 25 years of knowledge, sophisticated development environments and tools, and so on. No longer is the 2600 a closed, mystical system, eliminating part of that thing that has always made console gaming something special when compared to computer gaming. All the wonder is gone... it is kind of like knowing how a magic trick is done - after that, it is just never the same.

 

Of course, I am being somewhat hypocritical here. You can probably find some old newsgroup or IRC posts from me talking about doing some 5200 homebrews (I wanted to port the stuff that was on the Atari 8 bits but didn't make it to the 5200, like a bunch of Sega stuff. Would have probably done 2 games per cart, with woodgrain labels), and I do own 1 homebrew, Kevtris. But now when I see talk of homebrews, or even limited releases of lost prototypes, I groan and think that the classics just became a little less special.

[ubersaurus]

Uh,, average Joe? You make the atari seem like the easiest thing to program for. You have to know assembly, particularly a type of assembly no one uses nowadays. You have to be good enough to work within the extreme constraints. And finally, new tools? There aren't any real tools that make this any easier, other then the fact you no longer need to burn to a cart, thanks to emulators, just to test your program. Trust me-it takes a very talented programmer to be able to program for the 2600, and get something fun to come out.

[Big Player]

Less special? I don't see how they debase the classics. They remain unchanged, no matter what new games are created for the system.

 

There are a lot more bad carts for the Atari than classics. It would be nice if these homebrews would erase my memory of Laser Blast, Earthworld, etc. If they could, I would buy ten of each.

[liveinabin]

I like laser blast! There are loads worse games than that, but otherwise I agree with the sentiment.

[Snider-man]

I view homebrews in the same way I view if they brought a favorite TV show back from cancellation. Let's use Star Trek for example. I enjoyed TOS, and when they announced ST:TNG, I was thrilled to be watching NEW episodes of a childhood favorite. It was like rekindling my childhood, but at the same time, seeing something new in the genre.

 

Then, later, we got DS9. That same "rebirth" of a hobby thrill. Then Voyager, and now Enterprise. Each new series rekindled the fire by offering me something "old" (the ST myth and story) and something "new" (new characters, locales, and times).

 

If all we ever got were TOS reruns, there would be fans, sure. However, who wants to watch "Trouble With Tribbles" or "Amok Time" for the zillionth time?

 

Homebrews are like that too. I get to fire up my old, classic, beloved game system but I get to enjoy an experience never seen in 30 some-odd years. A brand-new game for Pete's sake!

 

And, if we were to get back in the WayBack Machine and go back to the "classic days" of the Atari, who's to say these new homebrews wouldn't have been created in someone's garage or by a fledgling company? You could now be playing games manufactered by the modern-day equivalent to Apollo, Avalon Hill, or Mystique (not the best examples, but...). These ARE the new classics, my friend!

 

The point is, why say these aren't as "viable" as games made 20-30 years ago? Because they're not years on their way to bit rot? Because they don't have Actiplaque? Because you can't get them for .50 at the Salvation Army? Wow. I'm assuming you don't watch The Simpsons either. That show's getting old and isn't as good as the Tracy Ullman shorts. You probably won't buy a car manufactured before 1986. You proably still listen solely to your Rush and Toto albums (and on 8-track or vinyl as well).

 

Embrace change. Embrace the future. Hug a homebrewer.

 

(P.S. - At CGE 2001, Joe Decuir - the designer who helped create the freakin' 2600 and programmer of that stalwart, "Combat," actually praised and THANKED the homebrew community for keeping the system alive and viable for years. If HE finds intrinsict value in what these new programmers are doing/creating, what can't you?)

 

[ 04-12-2002: Message edited by: Snider-man ]

[Nukey Shay]

Look at it this way...

If the 2600 market was still alive in the mainstream, the homebrew authors would have been programming for some big corporation and just getting a royalty for their efforts. Trying out new ideas never diminishes or spoils classic games' image. If that were true, we would all have stopped playing the 2600 years ago in favor of the latest platform we own.

[DEBRO]

If you don't like homebrew titles how do you feel about Solaris?

 

Doug programmed that game for years on his own before Atari picked it up. If he wouldn't have done that you would have been looking at a watered down version. Instead he had the time to experiment and make the game better.

 

A homebrew project belongs to the programmer and not some corporation. So the project is done when the programmer says it's done. This makes for some very interesting titles.

[kingpong]

quote:

---

Originally posted by ubersaurus:

Uh,, average Joe? You make the atari seem like the easiest thing to program for. You have to know assembly, particularly a type of assembly no one uses nowadays. You have to be good enough to work within the extreme constraints. And finally, new tools? There aren't any real tools that make this any easier, other then the fact you no longer need to burn to a cart, thanks to emulators, just to test your program.

---

 

Compared to what it must have taken to code for the thing 20 years ago, we're much better off today. Emulators save a bunch of time, provide some debugging aids, etc. My gripe here is more with other classic systems than with the 2600. For other systems we're seeing C compilers and such, and while these tools don't make it easy to develop for these systems, they make it easier than it once was. It sure beats punch cards.

 

As for the average Joe, compared to 20 years ago, Joe 2600 Coder is much more the average guy. It used to be a very small, specialized pool of people who coded for these systems. Now there are dozens of coders out of a relatively small community of classic gaming enthusiasts. I don't think it is simple coincidence that there are so many people who happen to be able to write something for classic consoles.

[kingpong]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Snider-man:

I view homebrews in the same way I view if they brought a favorite TV show back from cancellation. Let's use Star Trek for example. I enjoyed TOS, and when they announced ST:TNG, I was thrilled to be watching NEW episodes of a childhood favorite. It was like rekindling my childhood, but at the same time, seeing something new in the genre.

 

Then, later, we got DS9. That same "rebirth" of a hobby thrill. Then Voyager, and now Enterprise. Each new series rekindled the fire by offering me something "old" (the ST myth and story) and something "new" (new characters, locales, and times).

---

 

I basically feel the exact opposite. Not with Star Trek however - I despise it across the board. Look at the Star Wars franchise. Everybody loved the original trilogy, with those movies having a certain aura about them and a special place in everyone's memory. Then along came The Phantom Menace. From the day it was announced, there was great excitement, but also a bit of trepidation. Another Star Wars movies sounded wonderful, but what if it didn't live up to our expectations? So finally the movie came about, and as was feared, it didn't live up to the unrealistically high standards that we had. With that, the Star Wars franchise lost a bit of its luster. It wasn't that TPM was so bad, as it was certainly better then those post-ROJ Ewok movies, yet it tarnished the franchise more.

 

Homebrews are like KISS when the lineup isn't Gene, Paul, Ace, and Peter; the Brady Bunch Variety Hour without Eve Plumb; the Spice Girls without Geri; "Classic Coke" after the New Coke fiasco (it isn't quite the original formula, as they now use a different kind of sugar) - all with their merits, but not that special thing they once were.

[mos6507]

>>

Homebrews are like KISS when the lineup isn't Gene, Paul, Ace, and Peter; the Brady Bunch Variety Hour without Eve Plumb; the Spice Girls without Geri; "Classic Coke" after the New Coke fiasco (it isn't quite the original formula, as they now use a different kind of sugar) - all with their merits, but not that special thing they once were.

<<

 

Special? First of all, not all of the original 2600 games are worthy of this level of respect. There was a lot of crap in the original 2600 catalog. And there are thousands of original games, but only a handful of homebrew games. What's more "special" within that context?

 

You've really got to judge these games on their own merit AS GAMES, not just the context of them being written now rather than 20 years ago.

 

Secondly, what this really is is NOT a "New Coke" type of deal. The examples you are giving are corprate sell outs and corporate strategic mixups. This is a case of the original CONSUMERS of these games becoming the DEVELOPERS a generation later, as an homage.

 

So for music analogies, think of acts like Lenny Kravitz or the Black Crowes who extend upon the musical forms they listend to in their youth.

 

And as for the choice of platform, ONLY older platforms are simple enough to create a game yourself as a lone programmer that people won't be criticizing up and down for not having graphics that maximizes the power of the platform.

 

Imagine if in the music business, every 5 years the number of bandmembers and engineers you needed to produce an album doubled. Moore's law increases hardware capacity which in turn increases the human demands to push that hardware. That's what we've got with videogames. Can you blame people for wanting to strip things back down to the basics?

[DuckandCover]

I can certainly understand having a special place for the classics. It was my love of many of those classic titles that inspired me to start collecting 2600 carts, after years of not even laying eyes on a 2600 console. But, I have to admit that since getiing involved in the hobby, it's been pretty thrilling to have the chance to play brand new games on the old box! I'd have to argue that games such as Gunfight and Thrust would stand up very well in comparison to the better carts of Stella's heyday. I don't think such fine programming efforts diminish the legacy of the classics. I actually think that the existence of new 2600 games may draw more gamers, young and old, to the 2600 and help to insure continued interest in the console. That's gotta be positive.

[Adriana]

I can't believe this is even a question or discussion! It's pretty ridiculous. I mean, let's face it -- most casual fans of the Atari 2600 probably don't even realize that homebrews exist. They're just happy to find a few old games from their childhood at a flea market and fire the thing up. Most people aren't obsessive about collecting or playing like we all are.

 

As far as mainstream awareness of the Atari 2600 goes, homebrews do NOTHING to "tarnish" the specialness of whatever nostalgic value it might have -- simply because most people in the general populance have no awareness of it.

 

For the rest of us, I think homebrews are great -- I'm not a big fan of hacks, but original homebrew games are pretty kick-ass, for both collectors AND players. For collectors, there's always something new coming out to pick up. For players, it's great to play a NEW game on an OLD system.

 

So I ask, what's the problem with homebrews? There isn't one, except in the perception of someone's nostalgia trip being ****ed with.