custom 2600 joysticks

[jediknight0]

Hi everyone. I'm a somewhat well-known PC modder (Millienium Falcon PC, etc.), and I've started an Atari mod based around the movie TRON.

 

As one part of the mod, I've built "custom" joysticks using the new FlashBack 2 joysticks as a base. I replaced the cable with a color-coded cable and built new fire buttons and joystick handles casted in clear blue or clear red with perl dye in it. The handles and buttons also light up.

 

I thought people here might want to take a look:

 

 

If you want to see the whole work-log, you can read it here.

 

You can also vist my webpage http://mods.xkill.net

 

Let me know what you think!

[crunchysuperman]

Nice!

[A.J. Franzman]

I think they look great.

 

I also think your dim LEDs in the fire buttons are due to a circuit error - the +5V and GND lines are the 2 middle ones in the bottom row of the connector. A standard joystick cable has no wire to the +5V line. If your LEDs use the correct power lines, in parallel, with individual limiting resistors, there's no reason why they can't be equally bright. Another possible issue is simply less light diffusion because the light travels less distance inside the fire button before exiting. To compensate for this, you could use a tad more pearl or a slight amount of white pigment to get more diffusion. Scuff-sanding the surface of the LED lens or even grinding it flat may help too.

 

BTW, the original 2600's power supply is claimed to handle about 100mA of accessory load in addition to a standard cartridge and controllers. A few cartridges use part of this (like Pitfall II, ~50mA more than a standard cart), probably some different controllers and other accessories do too. I have no idea what the FB2 supply is rated for.

Edited October 7, 2005 by A.J. Franzman

[Jacob Rose]

Let me know what you think!

943796[/snapback]

 

I really like the way the blue stick lights up - reminds me of playing Discs of Tron in the arcade - but what about the base? Are you planning to make a clear case replacement too? That would look amazing. Did you consider clear cable insulation, maybe even with EL wire in it?

 

Keep it up! I'll be watching for your finished project!

 

P.S. Sorry to hear the Falcon PC was stolen! That's awful.

Edited October 7, 2005 by Jacob Rose

[keilbaca]

Hey I know you! Nice PC mod BTW!

 

Those look great! Where did you pull the 5V from to light the LED's with?

[AtariAger]

[keilbaca]

What did you use to make the handles as well? I'm really interested now...

[A.J. Franzman]

BTW, a few casting tips, in case you want to try going back to polyester resin:

Dissolving a little paraffin wax in polyester resin before you use it is supposed to help reduce the surface tackiness. It takes a long time to dissolve, so what I do is stir in several very thin shavings as soon as I get a new container of resin. Some places even sell it pre-waxed.

 

Make sure the resin is fresh - as it gets old, it absorbs moisture from the air which makes it stickier. One thing you can do to help it last longer is get one of those "canned air" dusters, and squirt it (gently!) in the resin container each time before you close it to flush the air out. The dusters don't really use air, it's a completely dry compressed gas.

 

Also, make sure your mold is completely clean and dry just before casting. If you clean it with any kind of alcohol, it will have surface moisture for a while afterward even though it looks dry - spray the mold with the duster can to dry it too.

 

If you're using a single-part mold, after you've poured the resin in and got the bubbles out (either manually or by vacuum degassing), lay a piece of scrap plastic (don't use styrene; polyethylene or polypropylene will be easiest to remove) or even a bit of waxed paper or saran wrap on the resin on the open top of the mold. If you're using talcum powder on the mold to help keep from getting bubbles, put one of those silica gel dessicant pouches in the container of powder so it stays dry too.

Edited October 7, 2005 by A.J. Franzman

[Vic George 2K3]

"This ISN'T your father's lightsaber, Luke!"

[NightSprinter]

Heh, man. First you get featured on "CaseMod of the Month" in MaximumPC, now here. You're doing some damn nice work jedi. Can't wait to see some other classic controller mods if any.

[ATARIPITBULL]

Hi everyone.  I'm a somewhat well-known PC modder (Millienium Falcon PC, etc.), and I've started an Atari mod based around the movie TRON.

 

As one part of the mod, I've built "custom" joysticks using the new FlashBack 2 joysticks as a base.  I replaced the cable with a color-coded cable and built new fire buttons and joystick handles casted in clear blue or clear red with perl dye in it.  The handles and buttons also light up.

 

I thought people here might want to take a look:

 

 

If you want to see the whole work-log, you can read it here.

 

You can also vist my webpage http://mods.xkill.net

 

Let me know what you think!

943796[/snapback]

 

How about making some of these controllers for sale.

 

[jediknight0]

Wow, tons of responses! Thanks!

 

Let's see if I can answer them all in 1 post...

 

@A.J. Franzman: Hmmm... are you saying that the cartridge port AND the controllers share 100mA? If so, I'm in trouble here. The LEDs I'm using require 80-100mA for the stick and 20-30mA for the fire button. I use one half-watt resistor shared between them. I'm assuming the stick LED (it's 22000mcd, that's why it eats so much juice) is grabbing the majority of the current, leaving only a small amount for the fire button. Oh... I do scuff up the LEDs to diffuse the light more.

 

I've tried the max stuff in the polyester resin, but that didn't work out too well. First, the sides of the joystick still remained tacky no matter how much time I left it to cure and how much hardener I used. When using the wax, the wax (a) left the casting a little too cloudy and (b) only kept the top (i.e. the bottom of the handle) non-tacky - the sides were still tacky. I think the wax rose to the top of the casting.

 

I don't have and can't justify a vacum chamber - that would solve a lot (all?) of my problems here.

 

@Jacob Rose: Yeah, the Falcon getting stolen was a bummer. Never believe MS about security, that's all I can say! On the bright side, they were nice about it and send some money my way - I ended up buying a motorcycle rather than rebuild.

 

@keilbaca: I got the 5V directly from the joystick port. Pin 7 or 8 isn't used for joysticks typically, but has 5V on it for the paddles.

 

I've tried polyester resin and epoxy resin for the handles and ended up using epoxy resin. I prefer the hardness (and price, and clarity/color) of the polyester, but without a vacum chamber the polyester has problems. I made silicone molds from the original FB2 joystick parts.

 

@NightSprinter: One more controller mod coming up shortly. More of the same, but a different color. Care to guess?

 

@ATARIPITBULL: Never really planned to, but I wouldn't be opposed to making some for sale. I just doubt anyone would pay the price. Figure $30 for a FB2 yields 2 joystick, so $15 per. Add a $5 network cable, plus a little under $3 for a couple of LEDs, plus let's estimate $3 of epoxy resin, plus $3 for DB9 connector & hood. So we're looking at about $29 before adding anything for my time. I can't imagine anyone wanting to spend that... but I'm willing to listen if anyone disagrees with me.

[Zonie]

Wow, tons of responses!  Thanks!

 

Let's see if I can answer them all in 1 post...

 

@A.J. Franzman:  Hmmm... are you saying that the cartridge port AND the controllers share 100mA?  If so, I'm in trouble here.  The LEDs I'm using require 80-100mA for the stick and 20-30mA for the fire button.  I use one half-watt resistor shared between them.  I'm assuming the stick LED (it's 22000mcd, that's why it eats so much juice) is grabbing the majority of the current, leaving only a small amount for the fire button.  Oh... I do scuff up the LEDs to diffuse the light more.

 

I've tried the max stuff in the polyester resin, but that didn't work out too well.  First, the sides of the joystick still remained tacky no matter how much time I left it to cure and how much hardener I used.  When using the wax, the wax (a) left the casting a little too cloudy and (b) only kept the top (i.e. the bottom of the handle) non-tacky - the sides were still tacky.  I think the wax rose to the top of the casting.

 

I don't have and can't justify a vacum chamber - that would solve a lot (all?) of my problems here.

 

@Jacob Rose: Yeah, the Falcon getting stolen was a bummer.  Never believe MS about security, that's all I can say!  On the bright side, they were nice about it and send some money my way - I ended up buying a motorcycle rather than rebuild.

 

@keilbaca: I got the 5V directly from the joystick port.  Pin 7 or 8 isn't used for joysticks typically, but has 5V on it for the paddles. 

 

I've tried polyester resin and epoxy resin for the handles and ended up using epoxy resin.  I prefer the hardness (and price, and clarity/color) of the polyester, but without a vacum chamber the polyester has problems.  I made silicone molds from the original FB2 joystick parts.

 

@NightSprinter: One more controller mod coming up shortly.  More of the same, but a different color.  Care to guess? 

 

@ATARIPITBULL: Never really planned to, but I wouldn't be opposed to making some for sale.  I just doubt anyone would pay the price.  Figure $30 for a FB2 yields 2 joystick, so $15 per.  Add a $5 network cable, plus a little under $3 for a couple of LEDs, plus let's estimate $3 of epoxy resin, plus $3 for DB9 connector & hood.  So we're looking at about $29 before adding anything for my time.  I can't imagine anyone wanting to spend that... but I'm willing to listen if anyone disagrees with me. 

945472[/snapback]

 

 

You may want to try "Vacuum bagging" It's a technique that model rocket builders use to fiberglass airframes. You can find info on www.rocketryonline.com or rocketryforum.com (post a question or do a search). They suck all the air out of the bag with a shop vac and then seal the bag like one of those food bag sealers on QVC.

 

Also, a vacuum chamber need not be expensive. for small items, you may be able to get away with a coffee can and a small fish tank pump or portable tire air compressor. Some of the pumps have a hose barb on the inlet. All you need then is a wood plate or a book and a sheet of rubber to seal the can with. The vacuum will hold the seal. Put a little vaseline around the can lip.

 

There are also several larger low cost pumps available that have cooling fans. Dayton is one mfg. We use them to test wafer handling robots. They can be found used at equipment surplus dealers for less than $100.

Edited October 10, 2005 by Zonie

[jediknight0]

OK, here's my latest effort - I'm calling it my "Limited Edition TRON joystick"

 

 

The basic joystick is pearl in color (with white cable), but when power is applied the joystick handle cycles through red, green, and blue. The fire button lights up white, but flashes in sequence with the joystick handle.

 

You can view a very quick video here

[A.J. Franzman]

are you saying that the cartridge port AND the controllers share 100mA?  If so, I'm in trouble here.  The LEDs I'm using require 80-100mA for the stick and 20-30mA for the fire button.

Yes, pulling 100-130mA per stick would be a bad idea on an original 2600 console - I'm not sure about the FB2; it also uses a 7805 regulator, but with no heat sinking. However, the FB2 mainboard probably uses much less current than a 2600. Clipping a big heatsink on the 7805 would allow the circuits to pull as much as an amp, total, maybe even 1.5 or 2 amps depending on which modern version of the 7805 it is - if the wall wart can provide it! Some six-switch 2600s have a decent heatsink on the regulator that could probably handle a full amp. Later boards use a "copper pour" on the board as heatsink, which doesn't work as well. Also, the standard 2600 wall wart is only rated to 500mA (of which the board itself uses ~ 350-400mA). I don't know what the FB2 supply is rated for.

 

I use one half-watt resistor shared between them.  I'm assuming the stick LED (it's 22000mcd, that's why it eats so much juice) is grabbing the majority of the current, leaving only a small amount for the fire button.

Exactly. Only identical LEDs should be wired in parallel, sharing a resistor. Even then, the LEDs will often not be equally bright. It's much better for each LED to have its own resistor.

 

Oh... I do scuff up the LEDs to diffuse the light more.

 

I've tried the max stuff in the polyester resin, but that didn't work out too well.  First, the sides of the joystick still remained tacky no matter how much time I left it to cure and how much hardener I used.  When using the wax, the wax (a) left the casting a little too cloudy and (b) only kept the top (i.e. the bottom of the handle) non-tacky - the sides were still tacky.  I think the wax rose to the top of the casting.

945472[/snapback]

That's not just any wax, it should only be pure paraffin. And it's supposed to rise to the top - its function is to block out air from open castings. But it sounds more like you're having a reaction problem with the mold. Assuming the mold is silicone, try using a stronger solvent, such as acetone, to clean it. Also, in spite of being rubbery, silicone is actually a pretty good heatsink, and polyester needs heat to cure - try pre-heating your molds (or even post-heating). Edited November 10, 2005 by A.J. Franzman

[jediknight0]

Yes, pulling 100-130mA per stick would be a bad idea on an original 2600 console - I'm not sure about the FB2; it also uses a 7805 regulator, but with no heat sinking. However, the FB2 mainboard probably uses much less current than a 2600. Clipping a big heatsink on the 7805 would allow the circuits to pull as much as an amp, total - if the wall wart can provide it! Six-switch 2600s have a decent heatsink on the regulator that could probably handle a full amp. Later boards use the board copper as heatsink, which doesn't work as well. Also, the standard 2600 wall wart is only rated to 500mA (of which the board itself uses 350-400mA). I don't know what the FB2 supply is rated for.

 

The FB2 power supply is rated at 200mA - but the joysticks work fine with all the games I tried. I dug out an old 4-switch 2600 tonight, and the joysticks work fine there as well (played about 6 or 7 different games for a few minutes each). If anything, the joysticks were a little brighter on the real thing.

 

 

 

That's not just any wax, it should only be pure paraffin. And it's supposed to rise to the top - its function is to block out air from open castings. But it sounds more like you're having a reaction problem with the mold. Assuming the mold is silicone, try using a stronger solvent, such as acetone, to clean it. Also, in spite of being rubbery, silicone is actually a pretty good heatsink, and polyester needs heat to cure - try pre-heating your molds (or even post-heating).

 

I was using pure paraffin - it's a special surface cure agent from the same plastics store that I got the rest of my materials from. And I did try pre and post heating the molds, no difference. I don't think I'm having a reaction to the mold - instead, the slight shrinkage from the curing of the resin allows just enough air in to cause the tackiness.

 

In any case, I'm relatively happy with the epoxy resin sticks so I'll leave it at that. I've got 3 modified sticks now, plus one original so that should be enough. On with the rest of the mod...

[Clint Thompson]

THAT is friggin HOT looking!!

Great job! I would love to have a pair of blue and red for my setup!

[keilbaca]

@ATARIPITBULL: Never really planned to, but I wouldn't be opposed to making some for sale.  I just doubt anyone would pay the price.  Figure $30 for a FB2 yields 2 joystick, so $15 per.  Add a $5 network cable, plus a little under $3 for a couple of LEDs, plus let's estimate $3 of epoxy resin, plus $3 for DB9 connector & hood.  So we're looking at about $29 before adding anything for my time.  I can't imagine anyone wanting to spend that... but I'm willing to listen if anyone disagrees with me.  

 

You're talking AtariAge people here dude. Lots of them have disposable incomes, and if we can drop $50+ into a single joystick that has the original hex disc, I'm sure we can drop that much into a badass lightup controller.

The FB2 power supply is rated at 200mA - but the joysticks work fine with all the games I tried.  I dug out an old 4-switch 2600 tonight, and the joysticks work fine there as well (played about 6 or 7 different games for a few minutes each).  If anything, the joysticks were a little brighter on the real thing.

 

That's because the FB2 runs off of 4.2V and the real atari runs off of 5v.

Edited October 16, 2005 by keilbaca