Atariage wrong place for coders?

[Heaven/TQA]

ok... here is something what i have realised the last couple of years:

 

atariage might the wrong place for sharing coding experiences on atari800...it's the only place for 2600 coding (look in the programming forum and compare the postings 800 vs 2600, same goes to the homebrew forum)...

 

most 800 guys (or 5200 if you want as well) hearing something about "new game announced"...are hot of getting the final game... "when can i buy it" etc is one of their 1st posts... maybe that'S why there is this kind of no feedback analmux described... so... on the 2600 you have plenty of interest in coding & designing games here at atariage but a lot off less contribution (except G2F) on the 800 side... this is my experience here... i have to post my enemy engine problem in the 2600 forum just to get a feedback and coding tipps because there are the 6502 cracks like thomas jentsch, manuel etc...

 

building up an 800 coding community is very very hard here at atariage...i don't know why....(maybe historical). for further feedback you can look for my posting in one of the 2600 forums (2600 coding i guess...) "Why always 2600"...

 

 

it's completly the opposite at atariarea.histeria.pl........

[Schmutzpuppe]

The 2600 just has the greater fanbase and therefore more coders (at least for me it is logical).

The good thing is that the whole Atari 8-bit line use the "same" cpu so the a8 bit guys can participate from the experience of the 2600 coders and as you saw yourself they are allways willing to help.

The Polish community is a completely different story because of the historical background.

[mos6507]

I don't think it has as much to do with popularity. Lots of people here have Atari home computers around the house.

 

It's that the Atari 8-bit has always been an open platform. The mystique isn't the same as the 2600 which has only seen an active homebrew scene develop around the late 90s. That's why you see more 5200 activity than 8-bit, so the 8-bit gets ports of 5200 homebrews (like Castle Crisis) but the main motivator is making 5200 carts.

 

I'd love to see more new games for the 8-bit including some that are diskbased instead of cartbased. I'd also like to see more tutorials on how to get started.

[carmel_andrews]

Schmutzpuppe....A8 uses 6502, 2600 uses 6507 (a cutdown version of 6502) also 6507 is used in 1050 as well (although some a8 d/d u/g's replace 6507 with 6502)

 

I'm guessing that 6507 is slightly simpler or easier to program

[classics]

I think it depends on how advanced the topic is.

 

For normal a8 programming there are tons of people here who know just about everything about the 8-bit and have always been willing to help out.

 

For some of the really advanced stuff people are doing with gfx and music, I dont think its a lack of interest so much as a lack of ability to add anything interesting to the conversation beyond 'hey, thats cool!'.

 

I'm in the latter group, I love to program my A8, but I dont write games or demos. I'm guilty of being one of those people who downloaded all the RMT files and enjoyed them, but I'm not a music guy so I cant add much to the conversation.

 

Steve

[Schmutzpuppe]

I don't think it has as much to do with popularity.  Lots of people here have Atari home computers around the house.

 

It's that the Atari 8-bit has always been an open platform.  The mystique isn't the same as the 2600 which has only seen an active homebrew scene develop around the late 90s.  That's why you see more 5200 activity than 8-bit, so the 8-bit gets ports of 5200 homebrews (like Castle Crisis) but the main motivator is making 5200 carts.

 

I'd love to see more new games for the 8-bit including some that are diskbased instead of cartbased.  I'd also like to see more tutorials on how to get started.

946045[/snapback]

Maybe right, I guess there is allways more than one reason.

 

 

Schmutzpuppe....A8 uses 6502, 2600 uses 6507 (a cutdown version of 6502) also 6507 is used in 1050 as well (although some a8 d/d u/g's replace 6507 with 6502)

 

I'm guessing that 6507 is slightly simpler or easier to program

946055[/snapback]

No, the 6502 and the 6507 are basically the same.

The main difference is that the 6507 only has a 13Bit adress bus.

[Thomas Jentzsch]

..it's the only place for 2600 coding

Uhm...

[DEBRO]

Hi there,

 

I too love the A8. I don't reply much because I usually don't have the time. Also, I sometimes don't see all the topics here on AA. This is why I like something like [stella]. I can get things in e-mail form and can respond as I get time. It's easier for me to respond via e-mail than a forum now.

 

This is what I was hoping would have happened with the Atari 8-bit mailing list that was started some years ago. Instead the list has gone silent for years and people post here instead.

 

AA covers a wide variety of machines and yes the 2600 does seem to get more attention. I would encourage all the A8 coders to continue and share what you have. But as for talking specifically about different techniques I'd recommend you use the mailing list. The e-mail gets archived and it goes directly to the inboxes of those willing to share in the conversation.

 

I haven't coded the A8 in years so I'm real rusty and probably can't even add to a conversation but I'm still interested in what this machine can do.

[Wrathchild]

I disagree, I think the AtariAge board houses the most capable bunch of developers on the A8 platforms (other than the Polish/Czech language boards - who also contribute here regularly).

 

Where else would you look? comp.sys.atari.8bit and atari.org aren't contributed to much by programmers.

 

From my perspective the A8 developers just appear to be busy with their own lives at the moment and hence little development is getting done. Most of us are in our 30s and the younger coders seem fewer on the ground. I feel a little that the 'retro' side of programming for the 2600 looks a little more attractive to newcomers than them wanted to learn how to fully push an A8. Also, if you wanted to try the A8, then you'd also consider 7800, Lynx or maybe Jaguar programming, so we would lose out on new recuits.

 

This doesn't mean to say that we don't help out when we can though

 

Regards,

Mark

Edited October 11, 2005 by Wrathchild

[TMR]

..it's the only place for 2600 coding

Uhm...

946106[/snapback]

 

i suspect Heaven was meaning to say "it's only a place for 2600 coding" there, the implication being that the bulk of what happens on AA is 2600 and not 800. Could be wrong in that interpretation, though. =-)

 

One of the things i've been considering (on a more general note) is converting my C64 programming for beginners course, the Hex Files (blame Kenz/Cosine, i didn't come up with that!) for the Atari, although i think it's going to need a little applied physical violence since sprite handling is a bit harder to get to grips with for the A8 and i seem to remember introducing it early on... perhaps i should call it The Hex Factor or something? =-)

 

The online version of Hex Files at Oldschool Gaming still lacks it's final three parts so i really need to get around to putting it all up first!

[Cybernoid]

atariage might the wrong place for sharing coding experiences on atari800...it's the only place for 2600 coding (look in the programming forum and compare the postings 800 vs 2600, same goes to the homebrew forum)...

 

[snip]

 

it's completly the opposite at atariarea.histeria.pl........

945966[/snapback]

 

Heaven, firstly, Boinxx is great!!! waiting to see more demos of this in the future!!

 

 

Okay, I see that Mux has stirred up the discussions! This is great, BTW. You will always have people that complain... either complain that the discussions are too silent or complain that there is too much angst. We may have a bit of angst, but at least there is a discussion. If we all agreed, it would be pretty darn boring around here. Besides, it is difficult for everyone to get along when there are people from 15+ different countries on here.

 

I think part of the problem with discussing technical issues on this board is that we have a mix of technical and non-technical people. Some people don't care about how a game is made, just that it is. Another problem is that some of the techincal ideas people have are being discussed in English, which may not be their native language. I think this is the case with Emkay quite a bit (he is mostly misunderstood) but at least he is pushing the techincal community. I know that when someone is not speaking their native language their sentences are terse... almost rude.

 

I, for one, love to see both technical and non-technical threads. I want to learn more about coding for the 8bit. Without the discussions here, I would not be using G2F or RMT to make my games. I also am using a version of Mux's scroller in my next game...

 

 

I am afraid that this is the most advanced English board. And, I would like to see a techincal board with people that have atari ideas no matter where they are from.

 

I am not sure where else people from Europe, North America, South America, Austrialia can get together and discuss this computer? I would like the techincal ideas to be set free on this board... there may be other boards in a different language, like Polish... hopefully those ideas will make it to here...

 

Well, again, I am sorry to see Mux go, and am I sorry to hear that people do not think this is the right forum. I guess with any board, people will come and go... just natural.

 

Anyone from Asia on here?

 

-C-

Edited October 11, 2005 by Cybernoid

[sku_u]

There's always the old newsgroup that no one seems to use anymore. That was very active at one time.

[vdub_bobby]

I am thinking about an 8bit project myself. Not one terribly ambitious, I'm afraid: I'm considering porting Go Fish! to the 8bit platform. I'd like to get into programming the 8bits and it seems like a good project to start with.

 

But I have a long list and I have yet to sort it.

[Heaven/TQA]

finally!!! vdub... a cool little game and one coming from 2600 to 800...yeah...really "activision like"... --> david kitchen, david crane...

[Goochman]

My value seems to be in play testing so i you need someone vdub let me know

[Cybernoid]

I am thinking about an 8bit project myself.  Not one terribly ambitious, I'm afraid: I'm considering porting Go Fish! to the 8bit platform.  I'd like to get into programming the 8bits and it seems like a good project to start with.

 

But I have a long list and I have yet to sort it.

946245[/snapback]

 

 

Fantastic! And, best of luck!

[TMR]

I am thinking about an 8bit project myself.  Not one terribly ambitious, I'm afraid: I'm considering porting Go Fish! to the 8bit platform.  I'd like to get into programming the 8bits and it seems like a good project to start with.

 

On the subject of the original, might be worth checking a new magazine called "Retro:Bytes" out when it materialises in November - mainly 'cos i write the PD column and gave Go Fish! a good write up. =-)

 

Very cute game, would be nice on the A8 with a cute ingame soundtrack perhaps...

[vdub_bobby]

finally!!! vdub... a cool little game and one coming from 2600 to 800...yeah...really "activision like"... --> david kitchen, david crane...

946277[/snapback]

Well, if I do port it over I will do a lot more to take advantage of the 8bit's power than Activision did with most of their ports.

 

But don't get too excited just yet; like I said, it is just one possible project on a long list of possible projects.

Very cute game, would be nice on the A8 with a cute ingame soundtrack perhaps...

My brother wrote the 2600 music, I know he would be quite pleased to rewrite it for something with more, um, expansive sonic capabilities.

Edited October 11, 2005 by vdub_bobby

[mos6507]

Schmutzpuppe....A8 uses 6502, 2600 uses 6507 (a cutdown version of 6502) also 6507 is used in 1050 as well (although some a8 d/d u/g's replace 6507 with 6502)

 

I'm guessing that 6507 is slightly simpler or easier to program

946055[/snapback]

 

Only in the sense that there are no interrupts. It's harder in the sense that you have to bank over 4K (on the 2600) or 8K (on some other theoretical platform).

[+CharlieChaplin]

 

"I think part of the problem with discussing technical issues on this board is that we have a mix of technical and non-technical people. Some people don't care about how a game is made, just that it is."

 

 

- Thats me !! But I do care if a game is finished or not (I hate unfinished games) and I also care if a game idea is relatively / completely new or not (I don`t want any more Pong, Breakout, Pacman, Tetris, Boulder Dash, ... versions, unless they have a big variation from the original release)... on the other side, I do like ports or conversions of games that were unavailable for the A8 in the past (although these game ideas are not new then, the games being ports)...

 

 

"Another problem is that some of the techincal ideas people have are being discussed in English, which may not be their native language. "

 

 

Me again, my native language is german, but still I think I am not that rude...?!?

 

 

" I think this is the case with Emkay quite a bit (he is mostly misunderstood) but at least he is pushing the techincal community. I know that when someone is not speaking their native language their sentences are terse... almost rude. "

 

 

Hmmm, maybe this is just some kind of "negative" behaviour to get the wanted positive result... meaning one says for example "oh, you are so bad, you will never make it..." and then the other one thinks "...oh, I will show you for sure, that I will make it..." and in the end we have a positive / wanted result. E.g. say 1000 times to Heaven "you will never finish Boinxx" - and maybe just because of that, he will finish the program (besides, I doubt, he ever will And now let`s say the same thing to Analmux and Sheddy "you will never finish your work..." and let`s see what happens in the end...

 

 

"I, for one, love to see both technical and non-technical threads. I want to learn more about coding for the 8bit. Without the discussions here, I would not be using G2F or RMT to make my games. I also am using a version of Mux's scroller in my next game..."

 

 

And me, I would be glad to see your (next) program !! But finished, please...

-andreas magenheimer.

[Cybernoid]

Hmmm, maybe this is just some kind of "negative" behaviour to get the wanted positive result... meaning one says for example "oh, you are so bad, you will never make it..." and then the other one thinks "...oh, I will show you for sure, that I will make it..." and in the end we have a positive / wanted result. E.g. say 1000 times to Heaven "you will never finish Boinxx" - and maybe just because of that, he will finish the program (besides, I doubt, he ever will And now let`s say the same thing to Analmux and Sheddy "you will never finish your work..." and let`s see what happens in the end...

 

946577[/snapback]

 

Andreas,

 

Good point. We are all here to have fun, right? Besides, what is a little gentle ribbing to push a few people?

 

The negative, "you will never finish", should be included with the positive, "Cool!". I think that I have seen both negative and positive comments for many of the Homebrew games started here... so I think this is okay.

[Heaven/TQA]

to be honest... i "love" people telling coders to "finish their" work esp. from non-coders... no offence here Andreas... you know my opinion on that, gelle?

[Heaven/TQA]

and... i'll give a sh... if i finish or not if i don't want to... it's MY freetime and guys telling me to FINISH will not PAY me any money or other nice things for my affords... but this time i'll finish boinxx doesn't matter how long it will take simply not because of Andreas tell me to do so...but instead i will finish the game for Retrofan, X-Ray, POV, Fox, Jaskier, and all others who have spend their freetime helping to get boinxx there where it is now... :8

[+Random Terrain]

and... i'll give a sh... if i finish or not if i don't want to... it's MY freetime and guys telling me to FINISH will not PAY me any money or other nice things for my affords... but this time i'll finish boinxx doesn't matter how long it will take simply not because of Andreas tell me to do so...but instead i will finish the game for Retrofan, X-Ray, POV, Fox, Jaskier, and all others who have spend their freetime helping to get boinxx there where it is now... :8

946983[/snapback]

No, you will do what Andreas says because he knows where you live. Are you asking to be tied up in a basement with electrodes connected to your genitals? Just slowly back away, smile, then do exactly what he says.

[Zybex]

it's completly the opposite at atariarea.histeria.pl........

945966[/snapback]

 

This site is great but an english version can be a door for users/programmers of others countries.

 

Polish is VERY VERY VERY VERY VERY VERY hard to understand, more if you speak spanish and have a poor english (like me )