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Clint Thompson

360 Backwards Compatibility List...

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Still, glad to see Crimson Skies and Halo on there.

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Oh yeah! I have Crimson Skies. That game already looks good, but going by the following post, it will look twice as nice on the 360:

 

http://www.atariage.com/forums/index.php?s...ndpost&p=963999

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Still, glad to see Crimson Skies and Halo on there.

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Oh yeah! I have Crimson Skies. That game already looks good, but going by the following post, it will look twice as nice on the 360:

 

http://www.atariage.com/forums/index.php?s...ndpost&p=963999

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So, I don't understand the HD TV or the screen resolution things at all, but are those screen shots looking better only because they're taking advantage of a better resolution that I can't get on my normal TV, or is it just plain better? I hope the games will look better on any TV, because I was already going to buy a 360, but those shots have started to make me think perhaps it's worth going a few weeks without money to get a 360 a little earlier. :lust:

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So, I don't understand the HD TV or the screen resolution things at all, but are those screen shots looking better only because they're taking advantage of a better resolution that I can't get on my normal TV, or is it just plain better?  I hope the games will look better on any TV, because I was already going to buy a 360, but those shots have started to make me think perhaps it's worth going a few weeks without money to get a 360 a little earlier.  :lust:

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Without a high-resolution screen, I don't think the enhancements will be particularly visible. Current generation games don't look particularly jaggy on a conventional screen, but they do in HD. IMHO, $400 would be better spent on a nice HDTV and/or some more current-generation games if you don't have a good screen.

 

As usual, an excellent description of the filtering technique can be found at Wikipedia:

 

Full Scene Anti- Aliasing

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FSAA <-- click for examples

In general, over-sampling is a technique of collecting data points at a greater resolution (usually by a power of two) than the final data resolution should be. These data points are then combined (down-sampled) to the desired resolution, often just by a simple average. The combined data points usually lack aliasing artifacts or moiré patterns.
Edited by Flojomojo

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Out of the 7 games I own, only two are supported. I'm actually kind of surprised that many are.

 

It's not as bad as I hoped -- and NO, you don't need to subscribe to get the compatibility updates -- it's included with the free XBOX Live Silver membership.

 

As for the XBox Live Silver providing the updates, is there a source citation for that? Everything I've read about the LIVE Silver membership which comes with the X360 is that it's merely a teaser service to get you to pay for further downloads and a sign up for LIVE Gold. Every implication I've seen so far is that you'd either have to pay for emulation signature updates either by upgrading to Gold or paying for the download.

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For those who haven't seen and are interested... here are the games (with more to be added soon so they say) the 360 will be backwards compatible with:

 

    * Airforce Delta Storm

    * Alias

    * Aliens vs. Predator: Extinction

    * All Star Baseball 2003

    * Amped: Freestyle Snowboarding

    * Army Men: Sarge's War

    * Atari Anthology

    * ATV Quad Power Racing 2

    * Baldur's Gate Dark Alliance II

    * Barbarian

    * Barbie Horse Adventure

    * Batman Begins

    * Battle Engine Aquila

    * Battlestar Galactica

    * Blinx 2

    * BMX XXX

    * Brute Force

    * Buffy the Vampire Slayer - Chaos Bleeds

    * Cabela’s Dangerous Hunts

    * Cabela’s Outdoor Adventures 06

    * Cabela's Deer Hunt 2005

    * Cabela's Deer Hunt: 2004 Season

    * Call of Cthulhu: Dark Corners of the Earth

    * Call of Duty: Finest Hour

    * Casino

    * Catwoman

    * Chicago Enforcer

    * Circus Maximus

    * Close Combat: First to Fight

    * Colin McRae 4

    * Combat Elite

    * Commandos 2

    * Conflict: Desert Storm

    * Constantine

    * Crash Bandicoot: Twinsanity

    * Crash Nitro Kart

    * Crimson Skies: High Road to Revenge

    * Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon

    * Curse – The Eye of Isis

    * Dark Angel

    * Darkwatch

    * Deathrow

    * Digimon Rumble Arena

    * Dinotopia

    * Dead or Alive 3

    * Drake

    * Egg Mania

    * ESPN MLS Extra Time 2002

    * Euro 2004

    * F1 Championship Season 2001

    * Fable

    * Fable: The Lost Chapters

    * Fairly Odd Parents: Breakin' da Rules

    * FIFA 2003

    * FIFA 2004

    * FIFA Street 2005

    * FIFA World Cup 2002

    * Fight Night 2004

    * Fight Night Round 2

    * Ford Mustang Racing

    * Ford vs. Chevy

    * Forza Motorsport

    * Freedom Fighters

    * Frogger

    * Futurama

    * Fuzion Frenzy

    * Genma Onimusha

    * Goblin Commander

    * Grabbed by the Ghoulies

    * Grand Theft Auto III

    * Grand Theft Auto Vice City

    * Grand Theft Auto: San Andreas

    * Gravity Games Bike: Street. Vert. Dirt.

    * Grooverider: Slot Car Thunder

    * Half-Life 2

    * Halo

    * Halo 2

    * Harry Potter & The Goblet of Fire

    * Harry Potter & The Sorcerer's Stone

    * He-Man: Defender of Grayskull

    * Hitman: Contracts

    * House of the Dead 3

    * IHRA Drag Racing 2005 Sportsman Edition

    * IHRA Professional Drag Racing 2005

    * Jade Empire

    * James Bond 007: Nightfire

    * Jedi Knight: Jedi Academy

    * Judge Dredd: Dredd vs. Death

    * Jurassic Park Operation Genesis

    * Kabuki Warrior

    * Kelly Slater's Pro Surfer

    * Kids Next Door: Operation VIDEOGAME

    * kill.switch

    * Legends of Wrestling

    * Lemony Snicket A Series of Unfortunate Events

    * Loons Fight for Fame

    * Lord of the Rings: Return of the King

    * Manhunt

    * Mat Hoffman's Pro BMX 2

    * Max Payne

    * Max Payne 2: The Fall of Max Payne

    * Medal of Honor 3 Rising Sun

    * Medal of Honor Frontline

    * Medal of Honor: European Assault

    * Mega Man

    * Metal Arms: Glitch in the System

    * MicroMachines Odyssey

    * Mike Tyson Heavyweight Boxing

    * Monster Garage

    * Mortal Kombat: Deception

    * MTV Music Generator 3

    * Murakumo

    * MX World Tour - featuring Jamie Little

    * Namco Museum X Next Generation

    * NBA Live 2003

    * NBA Live 2004

    * Need For Speed: Underground 2

    * NFL Blitz 2002

    * NFL Blitz 20-03

    * NFL Blitz 20-04

    * NHL 2004

    * NHL Hitz 2003

    * Ninja Gaiden

    * Ninja Gaiden Black

    * Outlaw Golf 2

    * Outlaw Volleyball

    * Pariah

    * Phantom Crash

    * Pinball Hall of Fame

    * Pitfall: The Lost Expedition

    * Predator

    * Prince of Persia 4: The Sands of Time

    * Pro Evolution Soccer 5

    * Pro Race Driver

    * PUMP IT UP

    * Pure Pinball

    * Puyo Puyo Fever

    * Quantum Redshift

    * Rayman Arena

    * Raze's Hell

    * Red Dead Revolver

    * Red Faction II

    * RedCard 2003

    * Robotech: Battle Cry

    * Rocky: Legends

    * Rogue Ops

    * Rugby 2005

    * Samurai Jack

    * Samurai Warriors

    * Scooby Doo: Night of 100 Frights

    * Scrapland

    * SeaWorld: Shamu's Deep Sea Adventures

    * Sega GT 2002

    * Shadow the Hedgehog

    * Shellshock:Nam '67

    * Sid Meier's Pirates!

    * Simpson's Road Rage

    * Simpsons: Hit and Run

    * Sneakers

    * Sniper Elite: Berlin 1945

    * Soccer Slam

    * Sonic Heroes

    * Sonic Mega Collection

    * Speed Kings

    * Sphinx and the Cursed Mummy

    * Splat Renegade Paintball

    * SpongeBob Square Pants: Battle for Bikini Bottom

    * Spy Hunter 2

    * Spyro: A Hero's Tail

    * SSX 3

    * Stake

    * Star Trek: Shattered Universe

    * Star Wars Episode III: Revenge of the Sith

    * Star Wars: Clone Wars

    * Star Wars: Jedi Starfighter

    * Star Wars: Knight of the Old Republic

    * Star Wars: Knight of the Old Republic 2

    * Street Racing Syndicate

    * Stubbs the Zombie: Rebel Without a Pulse

    * Super Bubble Pop

    * Super Monkey Ball DX

    * SX Superstar

    * Tecmo Classic Arcade

    * Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles

    * Terminator : Dawn of Fate

    * Test Drive: Eve of Destruction

    * Tetris Worlds

    * The Great Escape

    * The Incredible Hulk

    * The Incredible Hulk: Ultimate Destruction

    * The Incredibles: Rise of the Underminer

    * The Thing

    * Thief: Deadly Shadows

    * Tom Clancy's Ghost Recon

    * Tom Clancy's Ghost Recon 2

    * Tom Clancy's Rainbow Six 3

    * Tony Hawk's American Wasteland

    * Tony Hawk's Pro Skater 4

    * Tony Hawk's Underground 2

    * Tork

    * Toxic Grind

    * Ty The Tasmanian Tiger

    * Ty the Tasmanian Tiger 2

    * Ty the Tasmanian Tiger 3

    * Urban Freestyle Soccer

    * Vexx

    * Volvo: Drive for Life

    * World Series Baseball 2K

    * Worms 4: Mayhem

    * Worms Forts Under Siege

    * WWE Raw 2

    * XIII

    * Yourself!Fitness

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Awe man, no Metal Slug!!!

THANK GOD, I can still play Barbie's Horse Adventure!!

WHEW

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Out of the 7 games I own, only two are supported.  I'm actually kind of surprised that many are.

 

It's not as bad as I hoped -- and NO, you don't need to subscribe to get the compatibility updates -- it's included with the free XBOX Live Silver membership.

 

As for the XBox Live Silver providing the updates, is there a source citation for that? Everything I've read about the LIVE Silver membership which comes with the X360 is that it's merely a teaser service to get you to pay for further downloads and a sign up for LIVE Gold. Every implication I've seen so far is that you'd either have to pay for emulation signature updates either by upgrading to Gold or paying for the download.

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Not sure what I was thinking when I wrote "not as bad as I hoped," was that a Freudian slip? That I want to see M$ fail? :ponder:

 

Yes, there's a source for that. If read the referenced article, you would see it repeated several times. Here are the bits you want, straight from Microsoft.

 

What I’m really proud to tell you and your readers is that it’s easy to get the emulation software, and it’s free. We’ll give gamers a choice—you can get the latest software updates from Xbox Live, burn a CD from xbox.com or sign up on Xbox.com for a CD that can be delivered to your home at a nominal shipping and handling fee. Once you get the CD, put it in your Xbox 360 and you’re ready to go.
Everything is simple and painless. All you'll need is the Xbox 360 hard drive and the free software that we'll make available over Xbox Live and Xbox.com.
For Xbox Live members (either Gold or Silver members), just connect your Xbox 360 console to Xbox Live and insert an original Xbox game. The system will automatically check if you have the latest emulation software, download it to your Xbox 360 console as part of a system update if you don't, reboot, and start loading your original Xbox game.

 

Those who are not part of our Xbox Live network will be able to download the emulators from Xbox.com, and burn them onto a CD to insert into your Xbox 360 where it will auto-install the emulator. Or you can go to Xbox.com and simply sign up for a CD to be sent to your home for a nominal shipping and handling fee.

They're small and take up less than five megabytes.
Microsoft is currently weighing a number of delivery methods, and downloadable data placed on Xbox game discs is definitely one of our options.
All current Xbox Live accounts transfer seamlessly to Xbox 360 as Xbox Live Gold accounts. You'll keep your gamertag and the friends, stats, and reputation that you've built up over the years.

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There's a lot of good games missing on that list. And, I don't even know how much I'm going to want to play them since they've reported that:

 

"Unfortunately, saved game data and premium downloads will not be transferable from Xbox to Xbox 360."

 

I'm gonna wait and see what this is like. Backwards compatibility is not a huge issue to me, but I'd still like to be able to pop in Burnout 3 or whatever every once in a while.

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You know what confuses me? They claim you can download the emulator, burn it to CD and then put it in the 360 for installation. Does anyone think this is giving the hackers of the system a ton of information very early in the system's lifespan? I mean, the Dreamcast was severly hurt by hackers, I can't fathom just handing them a self-booting diskimage within a week of launch!

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You know what confuses me?  They claim you can download the emulator, burn it to CD and then put it in the 360 for installation.  Does anyone think this is giving the hackers of the system a ton of information very early in the system's lifespan?  I mean, the Dreamcast was severly hurt by hackers, I can't fathom just handing them a self-booting diskimage within a week of launch!

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I doubt it will be as easy as that. It's probably encrypted and will only "install" under very specific, controlled circumstances. This isn't the same as the "execute arbitrary code" exploit that allows the PSP to run unsigned programs.

 

Xbox.com: What if I put in a game that isn't backward compatible?

 

Todd: I want to clarify—if a game isn’t on the list at Xbox.com/Games, it won’t run on your Xbox 360 console. Putting in a game that’s not on the list will give you a message saying that the game is not currently supported on Xbox 360 and point you to Xbox.com/Games for more information.

 

We’re working hard to determine the next batch of backward compatible titles, and would love to get feedback directly from gamers as well.  We’ll have a place on Xbox.com where gamers can tell us their thoughts as we get closer to launch.

In other words, "if we don't want you to run it, you won't be able to run it."

Edited by Flojomojo

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You know what confuses me?  They claim you can download the emulator, burn it to CD and then put it in the 360 for installation.  Does anyone think this is giving the hackers of the system a ton of information very early in the system's lifespan?  I mean, the Dreamcast was severly hurt by hackers, I can't fathom just handing them a self-booting diskimage within a week of launch!

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I was thinking the exact same thing.

 

I would not be surprised if this is the first place hackers look for some type of buffer overflow exploit.

Edited by Shannon

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I guess backwards compatibility is officially a "non-issue" for those of us with big XBOX1 collections -- we can't count on it. We'd either need to significantly pare down our collections, or keep the old system. As much as I want the new games, yet another system under the TV is something I need to think about.

 

Do what I do: Don't keep them all hooked up. Just provide easy access to video inputs and a power plug and then you don't have to worry about crowding your entertainment center. Plus that gives you the added advantage of being able to play a video game in any room in your house without having to have a copy of that system for every room in your house...Of course, on the flip side, even with it being as easy as it is to hook one up, it's even more easy to not have to everytime you want to play it.

 

Just a thought.

 

The upconversion from 480p to 720p that that graphic showed was impressive, no doubt. But I was just complaining on another thread about how little of a difference I noticed between brothers in arms (360) and any regular x-box game. Sure doing the upconversion would make the original xbox games look better, but it'd make the advantages of the 360 games over the xbox games all that much harder to see. So I'd probably opt to disable that feature myself.

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In the wake of the end of Xbox 1 support on Xbox Live, Microsoft has removed all Xbox titles from their backwards compatibility list besides those being sold via their Games on Demand program on the 360 (Although Intellivision Lives isn't present in this list, has that been delisted from the marketplace?).

 

http://www.xbox.com/en-US/games/backwardcompatibilitygameslist.htm

 

I figured they had just eliminated all Xbox 1 content from their database besides this group of titles, with this list being a byproduct of that. But I looked up several titles just now at Xbox.com and Xbox 1 game profiles for games like PGR2 are still on their website.

 

At least it doesn't seem to impact people with those emulation profiles already downloaded.

Edited by Atariboy

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I'm not sure why they shortened the list. I just got the update for Test Drive Eve of Destruction just fine and I hadn't played it on this particular console yet.

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They may have removed the games from the list, but they still work just fine on the 360. I was playing Ninja Gaiden, Alias, and Dark Angel tonight, all original XBox games.

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Hmmm...not sure if its because some games perform horribly or not. Baldur's Gate and Justice League Heroes for example have bad slow-down issues.

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