Nintendo Patents Revolution Graphics Innovation

[Uber Troll]

New reports are that the big "N" will be including some patented custom displacement mapping hardware for use in the Revolution console. This basically allows the system to use far-fewer polygons to achieve the same or better results compared to other systems. -LINK-

 

Here's a visual example-

 

 

 

Thoughts?

[+Random Terrain]

If it's not B.S., it's great. Better look with fewer polygons? That means games can be more complex without becoming sluggish right? That could encourage me to buy one if they have good 3rd party games.

[JB]

I think I've heard of a similar concept being implemented before, by using low-poly models for distant objects, and redrawing them with more detailed models as you get close enough to see detail. IF the object's only 12 pixels tall, you don't need three thousand polys, or even three hundred.

 

 

The displacement map approach has a bit more flexibility to it, though, since you're just loading a low-poly model and a fancy texture map instead of loading a high poly model and then extrapolating low-poly versions.

...

Assuming my line of reasoning is precise, which isn't always the case.

 

 

 

Either way, doing it in hardware instead of software would go a long way towards universal acceptance.

And once one party starts doing it, everyone picks up on it(in both PC and console markets).

 

*predicts displacement mapping as a new feature for GeForce 8*

[shep]

The thing is, wouldn't the other companies be able to use this same sort of procedure if it catches on? That's my only concern.

[Ze_ro]

The picture in the article is not from Nintendo, it's just ripped out of this image (which is actually pretty old, as I know I've seen it before).

 

Also, displacement mapping is not a new idea, although it takes a lot of processing power to do it (which usually eliminates all of the benefits), but the patent is apparently on a hardware based displacement mapping technique (So other companies COULD still do this, just not with the same hardware). Apparently, ATI has had similar hardware in some of their more recent video cards, and I'm told Doom 3 will actually use it.

 

--Zero

[Jess Ragan]

Reminds me of the N64, which processed fewer polygons than its competitors but could enhance them with all kinds of (now commonplace) effects; stuff like gouraud shading, anti-aliasing, and the like.

 

JR

[jeepnut24]

Been going on for a long time now. MC had less polygons in Halo 2 than 1. Bump mapping made all the difference in his case.

[Uber Troll]

Bump mapping is way different from what is being discussed here. Unlike bump mapping this actual deforms geometry during the rendering process. From what I understand, the major drawback of the technology is that most current 3D design programs don't support the creation of such maps.

[JB]

The thing is, wouldn't the other companies be able to use this same sort of procedure if it catches on? That's my only concern.

982988[/snapback]

They could do it.

In software.

 

That would require them to write the routine AND find the spare processing power to run said routine. Which would reduce the benefits of it to start with.

...

Actually, they might not be able to get away with it anyways. If it's taking place outside of the video chipset, the video chipset has to be fed something it understands, IE a high-poly model built from the displacement mapping. So it would only save you main RAM and disk space.

 

 

The picture in the article is not from Nintendo, it's just ripped out of this image (which is actually pretty old, as I know I've seen it before).

 

Also, displacement mapping is not a new idea, although it takes a lot of processing power to do it (which usually eliminates all of the benefits), but the patent is apparently on a hardware based displacement mapping technique (So other companies COULD still do this, just not with the same hardware). Apparently, ATI has had similar hardware in some of their more recent video cards, and I'm told Doom 3 will actually use it.

 

--Zero

Not too surprised ATi's got it in their current hardware, given they're supplying Nintendo's video hardware.

 

I still want to make a joke about pre-emptive copycatting, though.

[sega saturn x]

This idea is really nothing new since it seems like a lot of games have used it in the current generation. I know tekken tag used a lot more polygons than tekken 4. Sadly both games sucked.

Edited December 16, 2005 by sega saturn x

[JB]

*nods*

 

There;s a lot of tricks you can use to reduce poly counts without sacrificing detail. But they're usually software implementations(with bump-mapping being a notable exception).

Adding more of it to the hardware is always a good idea.

[Ze_ro]

Also, displacement mapping is not a new idea, although it takes a lot of processing power to do it (which usually eliminates all of the benefits), but the patent is apparently on a hardware based displacement mapping technique (So other companies COULD still do this, just not with the same hardware). Apparently, ATI has had similar hardware in some of their more recent video cards, and I'm told Doom 3 will actually use it.

Not too surprised ATi's got it in their current hardware, given they're supplying Nintendo's video hardware.

The part that seems weird to me is Nintendo filing the patent though. If this were something that ATI researched and implemented for the Revolution, don't you think that THEY would be the ones patenting it, and eventually using it in their PC video cards? Either Nintendo has more expertise in 3D video technology than we know about, or something fishy is going on...

 

--Zero

[ninjarabbit]

We can expect to see this on the PS4 and X Box 720 along with the remote control controller and the sad thing is that i'm probably right.

[jeepnut24]

Bump mapping is way different from what is being discussed here. Unlike bump mapping this actual deforms geometry during the rendering process. From what I understand, the major drawback of the technology is that most current 3D design programs don't support the creation of such maps.

983039[/snapback]

 

Notice what I said in my sentence. Made on the difference in his case. As in Master Chief. Never said this was bump mapping. I REALIZE THIS ISN"T BUMP MAPPING. I was making a simple comparison.

Edited December 16, 2005 by jeepnut24

[JB]

We can expect to see this on the PS4 and X Box 720 along with the remote control controller and the sad thing is that i'm probably right.

983593[/snapback]

Nah. They won't borrow the wand.

 

They'll integrate the motion sensors into a DualShock. So in essence, the old Microsoft Freestyle Pro is the future of gaming.

[jeepnut24]

Now don't forget the bomberang...

 

As for seeing it in the 720, well there is a very similar technique used on the xbox and the 360 so I doubt they see the need to copy something they pretty much already have.

 

As for the tv remote controller, well most already seem to love the new 360 controller so I doubt that will get copied either.

[JB]

As for the tv remote controller, well most already seem to love the new 360 controller so I doubt that will get copied either.

Of course they love it. It's a white DualShock.

[Uber Troll]

No way man... Here, take a good look at the Controller for the X-Box 360 in the pic below...Doesn't really look much like a DualShock to me...

 

 

 

Oh crap...Sorry man I meant...

 

 

Edited December 17, 2005 by Uber Troll

[JB]

Ummm... color excepted, it looks a LOT closer to a DualShock than a Dreamcast pad.

Especially with the doubled trigger buttons.

[sega saturn x]

Yet it still has those terrible gummy drop buttons. Seriosuly who the hell liked those things? Microsoft there is a reason NO ONE else has curved buttons, the main reason being the dig into your thumb.

[JB]

Yet it still has those terrible gummy drop buttons.  Seriosuly who the hell liked those things?  Microsoft there is a reason NO ONE else has curved buttons, the main reason being the dig into your thumb.

984924[/snapback]

Actually, I think it's because they're more expensive to make.

 

SNES has curved buttons. A mix of concave and convex ones, and I don't think they bulge as high, but...

 

 

I've never seen a problem with the XBox buttons.

[Mr.FoodMonster]

We can expect to see this on the PS4 and X Box 720 along with the remote control controller and the sad thing is that i'm probably right.

983593[/snapback]

Well, If you'd actually read the whole article, it says that the 360 already does do this.

[Atarifever]

Ummm... color excepted, it looks a LOT closer to a DualShock than a Dreamcast pad.

Especially with the doubled trigger buttons.

984200[/snapback]

I can see where he's coming from with the DC comparison. The dual shock has the analogs in the bottom, neither one in the top left. As well, both the DC and 360 controllors have the d-pad beneath and to the right of an analog, unlike the dual shock. Also, the butttons on the 360 are more the size of the ones on the DC than the dual shock. Also, like you said, the colour scheme is similar.

I've always thought the xbox and GC controllers were far more alike than either one was close to the dual shock.

Edited December 18, 2005 by Atarifever

[JB]

Ummm... color excepted, it looks a LOT closer to a DualShock than a Dreamcast pad.

Especially with the doubled trigger buttons.

984200[/snapback]

I can see where he's coming from with the DC comparison. The dual shock has the analogs in the bottom, neither one in the top left. As well, both the DC and 360 controllors have the d-pad beneath and to the right of an analog, unlike the dual shock. Also, the butttons on the 360 are more the size of the ones on the DC than the dual shock. Also, like you said, the colour scheme is similar.

I've always thought the xbox and GC controllers were far more alike than either one was close to the dual shock.

984970[/snapback]

Yes, the left analog stick is swapped with the d-pad.

That's because it's a logical change. I still don't know why Sony hasn't done it.

 

Ignoring that one thing, the layouts are IDENTICAL.

The handle angles are pretty close, as are the lengths.

I'd bet money that even the spacing across the button diamond is tuned to PS tolerances.