IGN's Ignorant NEX Review

[Great Hierophant]

You can't deny though, that the inflated claims of the IGN review of the NEX are a little out of line, claiming things like "NES games don't support S-Video." Hell, if an Atari 2600 can use an S-Video connector, anything can.

 

Yes, anything can, the question becomes is it feasible to do. The Atari can support S-Video with reasonable ease but the NES cannot. The reason is because the Atari outputs chroma and luma signals on separate pins of its Stella chip and combines then outside the chip. The NES combines the signals inside its 2C03 PPU and outputs the combined signal. S-Video's advantage is that it separates the chroma and luma signals, so the advantage is lost in the NES. Upconversion would be difficult and not lead to any appreciable video improvement.

[Jagasian]

You can't deny though, that the inflated claims of the IGN review of the NEX are a little out of line, claiming things like "NES games don't support S-Video." Hell, if an Atari 2600 can use an S-Video connector, anything can.

 

Yes, anything can, the question becomes is it feasible to do.  The Atari can support S-Video with reasonable ease but the NES cannot.  The reason is because the Atari outputs chroma and luma signals on separate pins of its Stella chip and combines then outside the chip.  The NES combines the signals inside its 2C03 PPU and outputs the combined signal.  S-Video's advantage is that it separates the chroma and luma signals, so the advantage is lost in the NES.  Upconversion would be difficult and not lead to any appreciable video improvement.

990034[/snapback]

 

I think that he was refering to the claim that the games don't support s-video. As kevtris demonstrated, if you made a clone from scratch, i.e. not based on a NOAC, you can have S-video or even RGB video output and it does look better. Modding existing NES systems, however, or adding s-video to a NOAC based clone, will not improve the video quality at all.

[JB]

I'm sure a puff review of an IntelliVision game-in-controller review at IGN wouldn't have the usual suspects beating it into the ground like the NEX gets over and over and over. It gets special treatment from a select few.

It would've gotten bashed.

 

The diffrences are that

1. it only would've come up once or twice, because it was a low-profile release as far as the classic gaming community is concerned,

2. no one would've leapt to its defense(hard to have a fight when everyone's on the same side), and

3. The creators of the INTV pad delivered on their promises and implied promises. They put out a gamepad with a bunch of INTV-ish games built-in. They didn't market it as a replacement for an existing INTV, make vague references to how great it was, and hype up compatibility and accuracy in the classic gaming community while actively avoiding offering any real information.

 

 

 

3 is where the NEX earned most of it's enmity. There were promises made and implied that were thoroughly broken. Messiah had a product that they knew couldn't deliver on those promises, and hid it behind obtuse language and omissions.

The community that they were counting on for their initial sales was, in my opinion, intentionally shafted.

 

The initial preorders were based on promises, implicit if not explicit(I don't care to rummage through everything to double-check EXACTLY what they put in print and what they merely implied), of a device that, if not 100% perfect, was better than anything else available(excepting a genuine Nintendo product).

What was delivered was a product that was identical to everything else silicon-wise, and inferior to other options electrically.

 

 

 

Their primary market NOW is the average consumer that doesn't know it's the same as every other NOAC or understand that all the FamiClones out there aren't Nintendo-licensed products.

They don't particularly care about accuracy, and I've got little concern for them anyways(IMO, most of them will shelve and forget it a year later, so it's 60$ down the hole either way).

 

But the initial market was the classic gaming community, and those people were actively and deliberately misled in an attempt to shaft them.

 

 

 

 

 

And before you bring it up... Yes, they DID offer a return for people that weren't satisfied.

The consumer's still out shipping costs both ways, unless I'm very mistaken.

And it's a large hassle that shouldn't be necessary. There's only one reason I can think of to not be up front about it, and that's the fact that a lot of people just won't deal with it. That's why mail-in rebates have replaced REAL sales.

 

It's also quite telling that(as far as I know) the money-back guarantee didn't come up until AFTER the backlash started getting out of hand. They had a product they knew wasn't coming close to meeting expectations and wasn't worth the price they were asking, but they didn't expect the massive glut of negative PR that they ACTUALLY received over it.

 

 

 

 

But what should I expect from a company that markets custom AV cables as a requirement for proper behavior?

They're no strangers to obfuscation and confusion. The NEX was really more of the same.

[Flojomojo]

The creators of the INTV pad delivered on their promises and implied promises. They put out a gamepad with a bunch of INTV-ish games built-in. They didn't market it as a replacement for an existing INTV, make vague references to how great it was, and hype up compatibility and accuracy in the classic gaming community while actively avoiding offering any real information.

990157[/snapback]

[NEX stuff snipped, I think we all understand the issue ]

Am I imagining things, or did the Blue Sky Rangers (Intellivision alumni) speak out in a web forum or other public place about the Intellivision plug and play game (paraphrasing) "not really being for the fans, just an Intellivision-like experience" and that "real fans should get the collections for PC, Mac, and consoles"?

 

I distinctly recall something like this being said. Am I right?

[Jagasian]

Do all NEX's have problems working with non-Messiah AV cables? What exactly is the problem with the NEX? That sounds like a serious defect. You'd figure implementing NTSC RCA composite AV would be something that any electrical engineer could do in his/her sleep. Even the Neo Fami (aka Yobo) clone doesn't have that problem. Also, as Great Hierophant mentioned, the Neo Fami is also compatible with more games than the NEX.

 

Considering that the Neo Fami costs roughly $30 and the NEX costs $60, yet the NEX is less compatible game-wise than the Neo Fami and is also less compatible AV-wise than the Neo Fami... well, that really does mean that the NEX is a flop.

[Great Hierophant]

What possible difficulties could there be with different RCA cables? RCA cables are cheap to make and easy to understand, they simply send a signal and a ground wire.

 

The fact that the Yobo can play Aladdin Deck Enhancer games suggests that the NEX can also play them, as the Aladdin is not a particularly sophisticated piece of hardware. I think maybe the PCB may be too thick or have the wrong pitch, which is preventing proper contact with the NEX's cartridge connector. There are two versions of the Aladdin, one with the lockout switch and one without, and I have the version without a lockout switch.

Edited December 28, 2005 by Great Hierophant

[n8littlefield]

I don't think there's a problem with RCA cables. I think what JB is referring to is that Messiah sells an "NES AV Cable". It doesn't really say it's required, but is packaged to look like there's something NES specific about it...

[JB]

I don't think there's a problem with RCA cables.  I think what JB is referring to is that Messiah sells an "NES AV Cable".  It doesn't really say it's required, but is packaged to look like there's something NES specific about it...

990404[/snapback]

That was indeed what I was referring to, and I apologize for the confusion(in point of fact the NEX's "stereo" connectors exist so that you "can use" standard AV cables).

 

 

And actually, they ARE unique. The audio lead is forked, so that the NES audio goes to both left and right channels.

 

And they imply that the use of "wrong" audio cables makes the NES only put sound out of one channel.

That makes a portion of people with properly-connected decks buy it because they think they did something wrong when they used standard RCA cables, and that they NEED a special set of wires.

...

And people that hooked their systems up wrong to start with buy it due to stupidity, but there's just no helping them.

[Dr. Morbis]

Considering that the Neo Fami costs roughly $30 and the NEX costs $60, yet the NEX is less compatible game-wise than the Neo Fami and is also less compatible AV-wise than the Neo Fami... well, that really does mean that the NEX is a flop.

990296[/snapback]

Are you going to keep this up until all of the next employees are physically crucified?

 

I think every single retrogamer in our little "community" is acutely aware of the NEX's shortcomings by now.

 

These threads are like travelling to a deserted island and finding an old Vietnam Vet in full camo carrying a machine gun who thinks the war is still on 35 years later.

 

The war is over :!:

[Jagasian]

As the IGN "review" and the Slashdot article demonstrate, the information vs misinformation war is not over, no matter how many times people like you claim it is.

[Flojomojo]

Every time someone buys a Generation NEX, one of Jagasian's pubes falls out. Other than that, I fail to see why anyone should care.

[Jagasian]

For not caring, you sure do post allot in NEX threads

[omne]

He must look like a nine year old boy now.

[MaDDuck]

I bit my tungue so hard it's bleeding!!!!

mmmmmmmmmm taste of blood.................

 

 

I just bought a nex and it works fine for the 30-40 NES/FC/FDS games that I own.

 

My original NES was in okay shape considering I'm the original owner and I don't abuse my stuff. I also clean the connector, etc... Once I find someone to do a SVHS mod to the NEX, the NES will still hold it's place of glory next to my TV.

BTW the NEX uses the same Monster video 3 cables like everybody else.

 

 

I like the NEX, it's a modern retake on the NES.

It works well enough, with a few flake-outs. It's no worse than running Nintendo's Gameboy Player!! It seems to be a well engeneered console.

 

I am *NOT* the target audience for this unit, but I love it! (37YO F, single, gaming addict, Mac user,jogger, etc...)

 

When I come to work every morning, 2 of the 7 sites I hit every day are both AA and IGN. I swore off www.spong.com about a year ago because they suck, lie and then suck some more)

 

IGN has their issues, I hated the NEX review too, but I like the way they cover the new stuff. And until the NEX, they handled most other retro-friendly things well. Read the ATARI anniversary, NAMCO museum, INTELLIVISION lives, ACTIVISION anthology, TAITO legends, and KONAMI collection reviews to see. Their forums aren't as good as AA's (of course ) but I usually just hit PS2, GBA, DS, REV, GCN, and gear anyway.

 

Sorry guys, I just had to vent!!!

Edited January 5, 2006 by MaDDuck

[JB]

BTW the NEX uses the same Monster video 3 cables like everybody else.

I'm mildly curious what Monster has to do with RCA jacks...

 

 

 

Interestingly, it seems a lot of the sound issues on the NEX(and other NOACs) is due to a simple reversed pair of bits controlling the square wave channels... might could fix it with a small external logic "patch" that swapped the 2 bits on the way in.

[MaDDuck]

BTW the NEX uses the same Monster video 3 cables like everybody else.

I'm mildly curious what Monster has to do with RCA jacks...

 

 

 

Interestingly, it seems a lot of the sound issues on the NEX(and other NOACs) is due to a simple reversed pair of bits controlling the square wave channels... might could fix it with a small external logic "patch" that swapped the 2 bits on the way in.

994903[/snapback]

 

 

Good question!

Monster Cable makes cables. Some of the best consumer grade cables on the planet!!!

They are over shielded, no RF interferience, and the video 2 and 3 series have VERY secure tight connections that will NOT accidently come unplugged.

Every system that can use them, has them!

My modded Neo-Geo AES has video 3 going from the S-VHS connection into the switchbox, etc.

The PS2 has the Monster Game component cable going directly into the TV.

The GCN has the Monster Game S-VHS cable going into the swithbox.

All of the way down to the NEX which has video 2 cables going into a different switchbox which in turn goes into the TV.

 

Trust me, once you go monster, you NEVER go back!!! Even my PSONE with LCD screen's input has a Monster video cable hooked upto it when I need to use the monitor!

 

 

Monster cable is GOOD!!!

[MegaManFan]

Monster cables are big, heavy, expensive, and provide no better picture on my HDTV than regular cables do. Why sink money into them for no good reason? It's like the cable guy who told me all those gold plated connectors were actually worse for cable boxes because once you got past the nickel's worth of gold on them the actual wiring was THINNER than the stuff the cable company uses standard.

[MaDDuck]

Monster cables are big, heavy, expensive, and provide no better picture on my HDTV than regular cables do.  Why sink money into them for no good reason?  It's like the cable guy who told me all those gold plated connectors were actually worse for cable boxes because once you got past the nickel's worth of gold on them the actual wiring was THINNER than the stuff the cable company uses standard.

995295[/snapback]

 

 

 

Intresting points.

Hmmmmmmmmmm.................

 

 

I like the turbine connectors that STAY CONNECTED no matter what.

I love the warrenty service on them

AND the excessive shielding prevente ESD which means my cats aren't chewing on cables anymore.

 

Besides, I can afford them.

[Jagasian]

Once I find someone to do a SVHS mod to the NEX, the NES will still hold it's place of glory next to my TV.

...

I like the NEX, it's a modern retake on the NES.

 

It isn't possible to mod the NEX with S-video, as the NEX's NES-on-a-chip (NOAC) directly spits out composite video as opposed to RGB, which is exactly why the NEX is not a modern retake on the NES. The NEX is an early to mid 1990s retake on the NES, which is when the first NOACs started to appear. A modern retake on the NES would have created a new custom NOAC that directly spit out RGB video.

[JB]

BTW the NEX uses the same Monster video 3 cables like everybody else.

I'm mildly curious what Monster has to do with RCA jacks...

 

 

 

Interestingly, it seems a lot of the sound issues on the NEX(and other NOACs) is due to a simple reversed pair of bits controlling the square wave channels... might could fix it with a small external logic "patch" that swapped the 2 bits on the way in.

994903[/snapback]

 

 

Good question!

Monster Cable makes cables. Some of the best consumer grade cables on the planet!!!

They are over shielded, no RF interferience, and the video 2 and 3 series have VERY secure tight connections that will NOT accidently come unplugged.

Every system that can use them, has them!

My modded Neo-Geo AES has video 3 going from the S-VHS connection into the switchbox, etc.

The PS2 has the Monster Game component cable going directly into the TV.

The GCN has the Monster Game S-VHS cable going into the swithbox.

All of the way down to the NEX which has video 2 cables going into a different switchbox which in turn goes into the TV.

 

Trust me, once you go monster, you NEVER go back!!! Even my PSONE with LCD screen's input has a Monster video cable hooked upto it when I need to use the monitor!

 

 

Monster cable is GOOD!!!

995172[/snapback]

Thank you for copy/pasting an ad.

And you still haven't answered my actual question. Your previous post implied Monster cables were ALL it could use, as opposed to RCA cables.

 

 

BTW, Monster is well known as over-hyped, over-priced, and covered with bald-faced lies to confuse the gullible.

[MaDDuck]

BTW the NEX uses the same Monster video 3 cables like everybody else.

I'm mildly curious what Monster has to do with RCA jacks...

 

 

 

Interestingly, it seems a lot of the sound issues on the NEX(and other NOACs) is due to a simple reversed pair of bits controlling the square wave channels... might could fix it with a small external logic "patch" that swapped the 2 bits on the way in.

994903[/snapback]

 

 

Good question!

Monster Cable makes cables. Some of the best consumer grade cables on the planet!!!

They are over shielded, no RF interferience, and the video 2 and 3 series have VERY secure tight connections that will NOT accidently come unplugged.

Every system that can use them, has them!

My modded Neo-Geo AES has video 3 going from the S-VHS connection into the switchbox, etc.

The PS2 has the Monster Game component cable going directly into the TV.

The GCN has the Monster Game S-VHS cable going into the swithbox.

All of the way down to the NEX which has video 2 cables going into a different switchbox which in turn goes into the TV.

 

Trust me, once you go monster, you NEVER go back!!! Even my PSONE with LCD screen's input has a Monster video cable hooked upto it when I need to use the monitor!

 

 

Monster cable is GOOD!!!

995172[/snapback]

Thank you for copy/pasting an ad.

And you still haven't answered my actual question. Your previous post implied Monster cables were ALL it could use, as opposed to RCA cables.

 

 

BTW, Monster is well known as over-hyped, over-priced, and covered with bald-faced lies to confuse the gullible.

995383[/snapback]

 

 

 

copy/pasted an ad!?!? YES my evil plan is almost complete!! {cue evil laugh!}

 

It was not an implication, it was a requirement for ME. I have high standards, lots of expensive toys (my collection is insured at $32,000)

 

I used to live in a condo almost directly under a big power tower thingy. When I lived there, I got RF interferience out the yin yang. While going to college I was working part time for a (then) giant retail store. Our MC rep gave me a set of V2 cables (I'm cute, BTW!) and my VLD player had no sparklies after that!

From that point on, I replaced all of my cabling with the good stuff, and a Monster Power line conditioner for my plasma TV.

 

Should I of thrown out $300 of cables and bout the cheap ones when I moved?

I don't think so.

 

 

Are they over hyped?

Of course, what isn't...

 

Do they lie?

See above!

 

Are they necessary for everybody?

No, but they were for me.

 

Are they worth it?

Depends on your needs/equipment/budget.

 

Is life too short?

No, so everyone should smoke/drink/and play as many video games as possible to shorten it!

[JB]

There ARE spaces between "generic no-name that came with my old VCR" and "ZOMG MONSTAR!111".

 

There are also products that WORK BETTER and COST LESS in every market Monster's in.

 

 

 

And they do lie. Blatantly. Check out the buzzwords on their packages sometime.

Especially check out their digital cables. "Highest-quality HDTV picture and sound" my ass. IT'S DIGITAL. A DECADE-OLD PILE OF RUSTY WIRES WORKS JUST AS WELL.

 

Hell, they sell an extension cable for PS2 controllers that promises your gamepad will respond faster if you use it. Because, you know, they have secret MonsterPower technology to speed up electrons and overclock your game machine.

 

 

 

 

So in conclusion... Monster lies. They don't have the best products on the market, just the most expensive.

They thrive on ignorance to keep them in business.

[MaDDuck]

There ARE spaces between "generic no-name that came with my old VCR" and "ZOMG MONSTAR!111".

 

There are also products that WORK BETTER and COST LESS in every market Monster's in.

 

 

 

And they do lie. Blatantly. Check out the buzzwords on their packages sometime.

Especially check out their digital cables.  "Highest-quality HDTV picture and sound" my ass. IT'S DIGITAL. A DECADE-OLD PILE OF RUSTY WIRES WORKS JUST AS WELL.

 

Hell, they sell an extension cable for PS2 controllers that promises your gamepad will respond faster if you use it. Because, you know, they have secret MonsterPower technology to speed up electrons and overclock your game machine.

 

 

 

 

So in conclusion... Monster lies. They don't have the best products on the market, just the most expensive.

They thrive on ignorance to keep them in business.

995453[/snapback]

 

 

As far as being normal CONSUMER grade cables, they are 'espensive!

But this is BAD!:

http://www.audiocubes2.com/category/Cables...udio_Cable.html

 

It's $800 for a 3M length of AUDIO cables!!

[JB]

Haw.

I think they're as full of it as Monster is(even ignoring the gold-plated connectors, which EVERYONE misrepresents).

 

 

Since you emphasize that they're audio cables, I must point out that those could also be mono video cables(perfect for NES use!). Or even chroma/luma cables, perfect for connecting a modded Atari to a Commodore monitor.

Despite what SOME companies claim, there's not really a diffrence between diffrent kinds of signals aside from video being more susceptable to interference.

[MaDDuck]

Haw.

I think they're as full of it as Monster is(even ignoring the gold-plated connectors, which EVERYONE misrepresents).

 

 

Since you emphasize that they're audio cables, I must point out that those could also be mono video cables(perfect for NES use!). Or even chroma/luma cables, perfect for connecting a modded Atari to a Commodore monitor.

Despite what SOME companies claim, there's not really a diffrence between diffrent kinds of signals aside from video being more susceptable to interference.

995885[/snapback]

 

 

Of course if you want to get technical for analog outputs, silver is better for audio anyway!!!!!