Ladybug - 2600

[Thomas Jentzsch]

Here are the addresses where the colors are:

 

Color of maze (should be pink):

 

$1368

 

Color of doors (should be green):

 

$1395

From brief looking at the disassembled code, it seems that I might not be allowed to choose from all color luminances. Right?

 

What are the values of $ed?

Edited August 5, 2006 by Thomas Jentzsch

[+johnnywc]

Here are the addresses where the colors are:

 

Color of maze (should be pink):

 

$1368

 

Color of doors (should be green):

 

$1395

From brief looking at the disassembled code, it seems that I might not be allowed to choose from all color luminances. Right?

 

What are the values of $ed?

 

Hi Thomas,

 

The value of $ed is based on the difficulty switches:

 

B B = 0

A B = 2

B A = 4

A A = 6

 

This value is added to the color of the doors; for the maze, it's either 0 or 2. This is done so the player can brighten up the maze if their tv or monitor can handle the flicker. (that's why the base colors are so dark)

 

Hope this helps and thanks!!

[Thomas Jentzsch]

The value of $ed is based on the difficulty switches:

 

B B = 0

A B = 2

B A = 4

A A = 6

Hm, looks like you confused A and B.

 

This value is added to the color of the doors; for the maze, it's either 0 or 2. This is done so the player can brighten up the maze if their tv or monitor can handle the flicker. (that's why the base colors are so dark)

 

Hope this helps and thanks!!

I see.

 

Grey looks rock solid when both luminances are equal. The best combination seems to be $8x and $3x (with $5x only a fraction behind). The differenct handling of the added values for the maze and the doors causes a lot of flicker in combinations AB and BB (I wonder why you made a difference here). IMO the base colors shouldn't be selected too dark. $x2 or $x4 seems good.

[Thomas Jentzsch]

BTW: I just rechecked your original PAL-60 version. With right difficulty A grey looks good and flickerfree.

[Cybergoth]

On my TV all switch combinations look almost equally good. I prefered to have it look purple instead of grey though, so I mostly played with AB. Seems like a good idea to have it adjustable like that, so everyone may find a good combination for his TV

[Thomas Jentzsch]

On my TV all switch combinations look almost equally good. I prefered to have it look purple instead of grey though, so I mostly played with AB.

And it doesn't flicker?

[Cybergoth]

On my TV all switch combinations look almost equally good. I prefered to have it look purple instead of grey though, so I mostly played with AB.

And it doesn't flicker?

 

Not in a way I'd consider disturbing. It pretty much just looks like in Z26, only instead of all being purple shades, the brighter selections turn grey.

[Thomas Jentzsch]

Not in a way I'd consider disturbing.

Maybe because I am more sensible to flicker?

 

I know people who work with CRTs displaying with 70Hz or less, where I need at least 80Hz to notice no flicker anymore. And I love working with LCDs where others still prefer CRTs.

[+SpiceWare]

could be. I used to run my Amiga in PAL mode for the extra resolution. My roommate couldn't stand to look at it, while I only noticed the flicker if I looked somewhere else and the monitor was in my peripheral vision.

[Cybergoth]

Not in a way I'd consider disturbing.

Maybe because I am more sensible to flicker?

 

I know people who work with CRTs displaying with 70Hz or less, where I need at least 80Hz to notice no flicker anymore. And I love working with LCDs where others still prefer CRTs.

 

Well, I do notice on most combinations that they are no solid color, I just don't find it disturbing. It's way better than a normal 96 pixel text display flicker for example or the Homestar / Boulder Dash kernels

[Thomas Jentzsch]

could be. I used to run my Amiga in PAL mode for the extra resolution. My roommate couldn't stand to look at it, while I only noticed the flicker if I looked somewhere else and the monitor was in my peripheral vision.

10 years ago, I used to work with a guy who had setup his 14" monitor to 1024x768 pixel, with 43Hz interlaced! A flickering hell! He worked with this setup all day, while I got a headache after 10 minutes.

[djmips]

could be. I used to run my Amiga in PAL mode for the extra resolution. My roommate couldn't stand to look at it, while I only noticed the flicker if I looked somewhere else and the monitor was in my peripheral vision.

10 years ago, I used to work with a guy who had setup his 14" monitor to 1024x768 pixel, with 43Hz interlaced! A flickering hell! He worked with this setup all day, while I got a headache after 10 minutes.

 

Yes, Thomas maybe you have more 'rods' in your fovea. They are much more sensitive to flicker and but are usually more concentrated in your peripheral vision.

 

But I have surmised that different people must have different concentrations. Like you, a friend of mine has always found even 60Hz to be an annoying amount of flicker. I found that amusing. I joked he was an alien.

 

It also reminds me of when I recently played that 'mosquito' ring tone for my daughter at full blast, 'what's that awful sound Dad, TURN IT DOWN!', whereas I only barely perceptibly notice the high pitched tone!

[Thomas Jentzsch]

I just played a round of Lady Bug on Mame (DIP settings: EASY) and noticed that it starts much harder and especially faster than Atari Lady Bug even with advanced setting. IMO it would be a good idea, if at least one level would play as hard as the arcade game.

[Thomas Jentzsch]

Another slight difference I noticed:

In the arcade version, the enemie bugs leave the nest during the last notes of their tune, while in the Atari version they leave a few moments after the tune is over.

[supercat]

Maybe because I am more sensible to flicker?

 

I think some of it must be a matter of acclimation. When I've visited England, I found the 50Hz televisions quite annoying, but I don't think the people there did.

[bcprs1]

WOW!!!!!. I haven't been in the programmers forum in a while and this was a nice surprise. Awesome job, just plain awesome.

[Thomas Jentzsch]

I played the PAL 60 version very frequently lateley. The game really rocks!

 

Two suggestions for the pause mode:

- stop the color timer, else you can cheat using the pause mode

- stop all animations, that makes the pause mode more obvious

[+johnnywc]

Hi Thomas!

 

I just played a round of Lady Bug on Mame (DIP settings: EASY) and noticed that it starts much harder and especially faster than Atari Lady Bug even with advanced setting. IMO it would be a good idea, if at least one level would play as hard as the arcade game.

 

I agree. The insects now start a little faster on both NORMAL and ADVANCED.

 

 

Another slight difference I noticed:

In the arcade version, the enemie bugs leave the nest during the last notes of their tune, while in the Atari version they leave a few moments after the tune is over.

 

True. It does 'sync up' as the timer moves faster. To have it start at the right time per timer speed would take ROM that I don't have... So, I just activate the timer when it turns the last corner.

 

 

I played the PAL 60 version very frequently lateley. The game really rocks!

 

Thanks!

 

Two suggestions for the pause mode:

- stop the color timer, else you can cheat using the pause mode

- stop all animations, that makes the pause mode more obvious

 

Hmmm... I checked the code and tested it and the color timer does stop during PAUSE mode. Are you sure it moves? Unfortunately, stopping the bug animation will be tough as I'm out of ROM to make that check (I'll need to free up a few bytes to do that).

 

Here's the latest build:

 

- insects move a bit faster to start on NORMAL and ADVANCED

- new title screen graphic to match the theme of the manual and label (thanks Nathan!!)

 

Any other comments are welcomed!

ladybug_NTSC.bin

ladybug_PAL60.bin

Edited August 12, 2006 by johnnywc

[Thomas Jentzsch]

I agree. The insects now start a little faster on both NORMAL and ADVANCED.

Better.

 

Hmmm... I checked the code and tested it and the color timer does stop during PAUSE mode. Are you sure it moves?

I was. Either a rare glitch or (more likely) my fault.

 

Unfortunately, stopping the bug animation will be tough as I'm out of ROM to make that check (I'll need to free up a few bytes to do that).

You know that I maybe able to help you here.

[djmips]

I agree. The insects now start a little faster on both NORMAL and ADVANCED.

Better.

 

Hmmm... I checked the code and tested it and the color timer does stop during PAUSE mode. Are you sure it moves?

I was. Either a rare glitch or (more likely) my fault.

 

Unfortunately, stopping the bug animation will be tough as I'm out of ROM to make that check (I'll need to free up a few bytes to do that).

You know that I maybe able to help you here.

 

A little Offtopic - have you contemplated releasing your source, and if you did, when? I'm interested in seeing your work.

[Thomas Jentzsch]

I (maybe) found another bug.

 

Very, very rarely (~3 times in total by now), the screen blinks for a fraction of a second. Maybe it lost sync for one frame, but I am not sure. This seems to happen, when there are a lot of objects on the same row, but I am not sure a about this too.

[+johnnywc]

I (maybe) found another bug.

 

Very, very rarely (~3 times in total by now), the screen blinks for a fraction of a second. Maybe it lost sync for one frame, but I am not sure. This seems to happen, when there are a lot of objects on the same row, but I am not sure a about this too.

 

Hello Thomas,

 

Thanks for the feedback. I thought that issue was squashed - I hadn't seen it in a loooong time, especially after I had optimized some code. When I did see it, the situation was similar (many objects on the same row). I'm not sure what is overrunning - the vblank or the overscan. Would both product a similar effect?

 

I'll have to dig though the code and see what I can come up with.

 

Thanks again!

[+johnnywc]

A little Offtopic - have you contemplated releasing your source, and if you did, when? I'm interested in seeing your work.

 

At some point I hope to, assuming I can make it readable to other humans... In the meantime, feel free to PM me with any questions!

[Thomas Jentzsch]

I'm not sure what is overrunning - the vblank or the overscan. Would both product a similar effect?

Not sure. It depends on how long the overrunning lasts (are you checking INTIM with BNE or BPL?). If it happens in vblank, you may notice a vertical jitter which won't happen in overscan. But since it happens so rarely, it's still hard to even describe the exact effect.

 

It could be also PAL loosing color due to an odd scanline count, but that's pure speculation.

[+johnnywc]

I'm not sure what is overrunning - the vblank or the overscan. Would both product a similar effect?

Not sure. It depends on how long the overrunning lasts (are you checking INTIM with BNE or BPL?). If it happens in vblank, you may notice a vertical jitter which won't happen in overscan. But since it happens so rarely, it's still hard to even describe the exact effect.

 

Thanks for the ideas. I'm checking INTIM in vblank using bne and in overscan using bpl. Which is preferred? I'll take a look at the code and see what I can come up with.

 

It could be also PAL loosing color due to an odd scanline count, but that's pure speculation.

Maybe, but probably not since I've seen this on my NTSC version as well.

 

Thanks again!