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To All Non-Programmer Idea Peddlers

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I have tried to get someone to finish Death Derby for ages, but nobody wanted to do it.

 

Where can I find more information about how the game should play mos6507?

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I would not call this an idea but more of a suggestion. I really like the homebrew game K.O.Cruiser for the 2600 and think if it is possible to port this over to 7800 mode with better graphics and maybe new characters calling it K.O. 7800 or something. I don't know how hard this would be but I bet it would be twice as awesome as the 2600 port. being you could do a bit more with it The 7800 controller has 2 fire buttons instead of 1 so there you have left punch and right punch leaving the joystick for movement and deciding where said punch will land. joystick up and left button a left hook to the head or stick down and left button a body blow. Well like I said I really do not know how difficult this would be I just thought it would make a great port onto the 7800.

Edited by homebrewreseller13

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I would not call this an idea but more of a suggestion. I really like the homebrew game K.O.Cruiser for the 2600 and think if it is possible to port this over to 7800 mode with better graphics and maybe new characters calling it K.O. 7800 or something. I don't know how hard this would be but I bet it would be twice as awesome as the 2600 port. being you could do a bit more with it The 7800 controller has 2 fire buttons instead of 1 so there you have left punch and right punch leaving the joystick for movement and deciding where said punch will land. joystick up and left button a left hook to the head or stick down and left button a body blow. Well like I said I really do not know how difficult this would be I just thought it would make a great port onto the 7800.

When did this thread become an invitation for idea peddlers to post their ideas...? :?

 

Please read the very first post of this thread.

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I certainly do not disagree with the basic goal of this thread, but I would like to point out that the description of the Homebrew Discussion forum (at http://www.atariage.com/forums/) says exactly the opposite:

 

 

If there is to be any real consensus of policy about idea peddlers, such a consensus should be endorsed by the AtariAge webmasters, which means the description of the Homebrew Discussion forum should be updated accordingly. Otherwise, this thread should not be a sticky thread.

 

Just my two cents on this issue.

so you pointed out here that the homebrew discussion forum says the exact opposite of what the first comment of this thread is but yet your against someone giving their idea or suggestion? Sorry if I done something wrong Pixelboy.

Edited by homebrewreseller13

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No matter for what the forum is all about, this thread is definitely not meant to discuss ideas. Please create your own thread for that.

 

Thank you.

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Well, for me the "non programmer idea peddler" thing isn't an issue. Because even when I didn't know how to code, I wanted to be the one who developed it. That's kind of my thing. Like you know that game I'm working on, "Undergrade"? The idea wasn't mine, it was a friend' idea. I just went with it and started coding. It's a fun hobby!

Edited by AtarinDave
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Well, for me the "non programmer idea peddler" thing isn't an issue. Because even when I didn't know how to code, I wanted to be the one who developed it. That's kind of my thing. Like you know that game I'm working on, "Undergrade"? The idea wasn't mine, it was a friend' idea. I just went with it and started coding. It's a fun hobby!

 

Back when every computer had BASIC it was dead obvious the next logical step in gaming was making a game yourself. We need more tools like batari BASIC, Inty BASIC and 7800basic to show people those days are NOT dead.

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Back when every computer had BASIC it was dead obvious the next logical step in gaming was making a game yourself. We need more tools like batari BASIC, Inty BASIC and 7800basic to show people those days are NOT dead.

I see what you mean.

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Trust me: you will love this one..... "New Mexico Landfill" kind of like DigDug or Space Panic but you try and dig up defective game cartridges and controllers without getting runover by a trash truck or collide with the documentary film crew.

 

So who will code it? We will split the profits 60/40 (after all it was MY idea!)

 

 

/sarcasm

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Trust me: you will love this one..... "New Mexico Landfill" kind of like DigDug or Space Panic but you try and dig up defective game cartridges and controllers without getting runover by a trash truck or collide with the documentary film crew.

 

So who will code it? We will split the profits 60/40 (after all it was MY idea!)

 

 

/sarcasm

It might be more fun to just make fake boxes:

 

atariage.com/forums/topic/232173-atari-2600-vcs-incredible-hulk-parker-brothers-sealed/

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I thought about that, bury them in the back yard for a few weeks, dump some concrete dust on them and sell them as "reproductions"

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(My First text is in french but next after is in english thanks for taking it into account)



Bonjour , depuis ma plus tendre enfance je rêve de voir adapter sur console 16 Bit sur SNES ou Sega Genesis (Megadrive) un jeu adapté du célèbre film québécois Matusalem mettant en vedette Marc Labrèche.



Vous allez peut-être me trouver fou mais quand j'était petit en regardant le film j'ai entendu le jingle de Sega durant le film québécois pendant qu'on voyait le méchant capitaine Monbars se fait emporter par les fantômes à la fin du film ainsi j'ai toujours rêver de voir un jeu vidéo sur l'univers du film jeunesse québécois de mon enfance Matusalem à la manière d'un jeu 16 Bit.



Le jeu s'inspirerait du film à la manière de Pitfall the mayan adventures , Hook et un tas d'autres jeu 16 Bits.



Le jeu commence où on voit à l'intro Olivier racontant l'histoire qui a vécu aux policiers dans le poste de police et là premier niveau on débute en jouant le personnage de Philippe de Beauchesne dans un vaisseau de pirates en combattant avec son épée et combattre ses derniers pour ainsi sortir du bâteau et accoster sur l'île qui l'emmènera dans la cave de Monsieur Walker.



Dans le deuxième niveau on jouerait le rôle d'Olivier qui doit s'enfuir des jeunes dans son école qui veulent l'intimider vers le chemin de la maison , pour combattre il aura un lance-pierre qui enverra des boules de neige à ses ennemis en passant vers des passages secrets jusqu'à ce qu'il rencontre Philippe de Beauchesne.



Dans le troisième niveau c'est de retour avec Philippe de Beauchesne qui doit combattre des motards mais aussi les pirates qui l'ont suivi durant le chemin en pleine nuit alors qu'on vient d'enlever Olivier.



À partir de là c'est le premier niveau bonus où on joue une pièce heavy metal à la guitare à partir de la chanson "L'école c'est twit" le groupe heavy metal que les jeunes adorent et le niveau se fait à la manière du jeu Guitar Hero à partir de là on voit son frère Laurent débarquer dans la scène en disant qu'Olivier à été enlever.



Dans le quatrième niveau là le jeu va pouvoir jouer n'importe quel enfant pour continuer le niveau ainsi on est dans le niveau de l'île où on doit combattre des animaux de la forêt tropicale , des araignées , des pirates , des crocodiles , des aborigènes , des sables mouvants , des chauves-souris et bien d'autres et ainsi à la fin du niveau on rencontre un des terribles pirates de Monbars qui lorsqu'on l'aura défait nous donneront la facilité pour libérer Philippe des sables mouvants



Dans le cinquième niveau le niveau de la caverne où l'a doit se battre contre des fantômes , des araignées , des ogres , des squelettes , des crocodiles , des chauves-souris et bien d'autres et le défi à la fin du niveau sera la caverne sous l'eau où on doit tout faire pour pas tomber dans l'eau.



Dans le sixième niveau là c'est à nouveau Philippe de Beauchesne qu'on joue où on est dans le niveau du village mexicain où il est en flammes où on doit combattre les pirates qui enflamme le village , certains complices vont vouloir brûler les maisons et les combattre à partir de notre épée et vers la fin on fait la rencontre du chef du village qui nous donne l'arme pour combattre le capitaine Monbars et ses pirates



Deuxième niveau bonus on est un des jeunes et on doit utiliser notre guitare électrique sur les pirates pour qu'ils s'enfuient et qu'ils prennent peur jusqu'à l'apparition du Capitaine Monbars.



Et finalement niveau final où Philippe de Beauchesne combat le Capitaine Monbars à l'épée jusqu'à ce dernier demande à genou à Olivier d'ouvrir le pardon pour libérer les fantômes pour ainsi l'enlever et finalement que le sabre du capitaine soit descendu.



Ainsi la finale on voit Philippe de Beauchesne et sa femme donner le pardon à son père et ainsi que le couple soit libre et qu'on voit débarquer dans le poste de police Laurent débarquer avec le trésor des pirates.



(Now Translation in english)



Hello, since my childhood I dream to see adapt on console 16 Bit on SNES or Sega Genesis (Megadrive) a game adapted from the famous Quebec movie Matusalem starring Marc Labrèche


You may find me crazy but when I was little while watching the movie I heard the jingle of Sega during the Quebec film while we saw the bad Captain Monbars is carried away by the ghosts at the end of the film

So I always dreamed of seeing a video game on the universe of the Quebec youth film of my childhood Matusalem in the style of a 16 Bit game.


The game would draw inspiration from the movie in the manner of Pitfall the Mayan Adventures, Hook and a bunch of other 16 Bit game.


The game begins where you see the intro Olivier telling the story that lived to the police officers in the police station and the first level one starts by playing the character of Philippe de Beauchesne in a pirate ship fighting with his sword and Fighting his last to get out of the boat and dock on the island that will take him into Mr. Walker's cellar.


In the second level we would play the role of Olivier who must run away from the young people in his school who want to intimidate him towards the way home, to fight he will have a slingshot that will send snowballs to his enemies Passing through secret passages until he met Philippe de Beauchesne.


In the third level it is back with Philippe de Beauchesne who must fight motorcyclists but also the pirates who followed him during the way in the middle of the night while Olivier was removed.


From there it is the first bonus level where one plays a heavy metal guitar part from the song "L'école c'est twit" the heavy metal group that the young people love and the level is done to the Way of the game Guitar Hero from there one sees his brother Laurent land in the scene saying that Olivier to be removed.


In the fourth level there the game will be able to play any child to continue the level so one is in the level of the island where one must fight animals of the rainforest, spiders, pirates, crocrodiles, Aborigines, shifting sands, bats and so on and so at the end of the 4th level we meet one of the terrible pirates of Monbars who, when defeated, will give us the facility to free Philippe from the quicksand


In the fifth level the level of the cave where the a has to fight against the ghosts, spiders, ogres, skeletons, crocrodiles, bats and many others and the challenge at the end of the level will be The cavern under the water where one must do everything to not fall into the water.


In the sixth level there is Philippe de Beauchesne again playing where we are in the level of the Mexican village where it is in flames where we must fight the pirates that ignites the village, some accomplices will want to burn houses and Fight them from our sword and towards the end we meet the village chief who gives us the weapon to fight Captain Monbars and his pirates


Second level bonus we are one of the young and we must use our electric guitar on the pirates so that they run away and they take fright until the appearance of Captain Monbars.


And finally the final level where Philippe de Beauchesne fights Captain Monbars with the sword until the latter asks Olivier to kneel to open the pardon to release the ghosts so to remove it and finally that the captain's saber has descended.


Thus the final one sees Philippe de Beauchesne and his wife give the forgiveness to his father and as the couple is free and we see landed in the police station Laurent land with the treasure of the pirates.

Edited by Tai Kushimura

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My idea is more then likely dumb to most but I got to try because what I saw looked really fun.

Solar Storm for the Atari 2600 is a good game but could use a new innovative challenge. I saw a review of Solar Storm by classic game room and his copy is apparently broken in one of the most coolest ways possible see below

 

I would think this is a simple hack to be honest as the numbers the controller out puts for positioning can be set to various locations rather then in order for example (I do not know how many numbers are involved) say 1 threw 10 while 10 equals far right and 1 equals far left a normal game would read 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 and perhaps a hack could read 6 2 1 5 7 9 10 3 8 4. Ok perhaps not that chaotic but in hopes thats the general idea. I think this could bring a great fun challenge. Honestly I just want to buy CGR's Broken awesome game but I doubt that would ever happen.

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Freedom.

 

Free flow of ideas and thoughts.

 

Free discussion without arbitrary restrictions and limits.

 

I am just pointing out and reminding of very important core values of human expression and conversational thought and idea exchange. If every idea has to be scrutinized that deeply before it's allowed to come out, many great ideas would certainly be destroyed.

 

I see the point of pestering programmers with unreasonable ideas and expecting them to just manifest some unfeasible or unintelligent garbage into reality. I get that programmers have a lot of work already, and they don't need people to constantly bug them about ideas that would take a lot of work and might be mostly, if not completely unfeasible anyway.

 

However, having everyone to go through all this very strict and limiting process every time they have an idea, is also unfeasible, unrealistic and confining. The OP seems almost a bit condescending and Ivory Tower-style dictating of what and how things should be done.

 

It seems like killing the freedom to just express ideas.

 

There's such a thing as 'Brainstorming', where you just let all ideas and thoughts come freely, no matter how silly or unfeasible or out-of-this-world, you just let it all come, and because of the freedom, your imagination and spirit get inspired to produce, amidst the crazy, stupid and wild stuff, also some real gems that might be spiritually fetched from the far ends of the cosmos (not that cosmos has 'ends')!

 

This style of producing ideas is universally greatly valued, because it removes the restrictions and frees people to pour in real gems amidst all the other stuff. A limitation might make the ideas better in quality, but since it would basically kill the flow, it would also stop the great gem ideas from ever being thought of, let alone expressed.

 

Any attempt at expressing freedom of ideas, in my opinion, is detrimental to the very basis of the flow that gives you great ideas in the first place.

 

I say, let's let imagination be free and unrestricted and ideas come and flow in all forms, sizes and ways, and just find the gems amidst the chaff, and it's all good.

 

A programmer doesn't HAVE to use or program any idea, so I don't see the harm in freely expressing ideas.

 

I do agree that no programmer should ever be DEMANDED or PESTERED with ideas, especially against their consent. But that goes beyond the whole concept of 'let ideas flow freely'.

 

Programmers don't have to go to places where ideas flow, and no one has to pester a programmer about an idea.

 

I don't know what prompted this thread, but I can only imagine it must've been some frustrated programmer that someone is pestering with unfeasible and silly idea after another, until they can't take it anymore and had to write this post.

 

I get it, I do a bit of programming myself, and it would be very groan-inducing indeed if someone were to come to me and start saying what I should add to some game, demo or other program I am making, when I see those ideas would be either stilly, unfeasible or take a lot of work to implement and yet offer no value, etc.

 

I get it.

 

However, I also get the other side, as I also love imagination, creating pictures, graphics, pixel art, music, instruments, sound effects and all kinds of things like that. I like to let my mind wander and wonder, I like to let my imagination inspire me, I like dreaming about wild ideas that can probably never be properly expressed or manifested into programs (at least by me), so I do get also the 'wild dreamer side'.

 

We don't need to impose restrictions on each other - we just need to understand each other, and then let each other be free.

 

Let the idealist dreamers flow their stupendously marvellous and yet silly or unfeasible ideas all over the place, don't get impatient or angry about that.

 

Let the programmers stay in the mundane reality and channel whatever they choose into their work and understand how hard it is to program and what toil the idealists might be asking of them.

 

Let's just understand both sides, let the idea people freely and without restrictions flow the ideas at least SOMEwhere, and then let the programmers freely choose whatever they want to implement or use. That way, everyone benefits.

 

I could very well write the very opposite of the original post, about programmers trying to understand the idealists's wild and crazy imagination that might not be very well grounded on the mundane realism of this world, because that is what makes great ideas possible, but maybe it's not feasible..

 

 

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"Ideas are cheap. A dime a dozen, as they say. It's the implementation that's important! The trick isn't just to have a computer game idea, but to actually create it!"

~ Scott Adams (K-Power Magazine, June 1984)

 

"The concept for PITFALL took less than 10 minutes. The difficult part was sitting at the computer, for over 1,000 hours, and making it happen."

~ David Crane (from a Digital Press quote page)

 

 

Speaking of game ideas, I have a whole page of free game ideas:

 

https://www.randomterrain.com/rt-free-game-making-ideas.html

 

Nobody is stopping anybody from creating their own game ideas page.

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The problem are not the people who have great ideas. The problem are the people who think they have great ideas.

 

There were just too many posts where the latter were presenting their ideas in a way, that developers should be grateful if they are allowed to implement them. Usually without even a basic understanding of the system limitations, no thought out concepts, no details, nothing. Some of these people even didn't even want to get into detail, because they were afraid someone might steal their idea. 

 

Yes, there were exceptions (e.g. Salstadt and a few others), but the majority was like the people I described above. That's why this thread was created, so that we could forward them here. Without having to explain them over and over again why developers are not waiting in line to implement their "great" ideas.

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6 hours ago, Monk said:

Free flow of ideas and thoughts. Free discussion without arbitrary restrictions and limits.

 

Brainstorming, where you just let all ideas and thoughts come freely, no matter how silly or unfeasible or out-of-this-world, you just let it all come, and because of the freedom, your imagination and spirit get inspired to produce, amidst the crazy, stupid and wild stuff, also some real gems that might be spiritually fetched from the far ends of the cosmos (not that cosmos has 'ends')!

 

I say, let's let imagination be free and unrestricted and ideas come and flow in all forms, sizes and ways, and just find the gems amidst the chaff, and it's all good.

 

I also love imagination, creating pictures, graphics, pixel art, music, instruments, sound effects and all kinds of things like that. I like to let my mind wander and wonder, I like to let my imagination inspire me, I like dreaming about wild ideas that can probably never be properly expressed or manifested into programs (at least by me), so I do get also the 'wild dreamer side'.

 

Let the idealist dreamers flow their stupendously marvellous and yet silly or unfeasible ideas all over the place, don't get impatient or angry about that.

Fast forward 15 years from the original post, and nowadays we have clubs as well as subforums. If the forum section for homebrews mainly is intended for discussing actual productions, what you could do is to form a club for free flowing ideas where everyone can contribute on their own terms with comments, suggestions, mockups and more. If the quality turns out to be high, there may be people with skills in development interested in some of the ideas, without those cluttering rest of the forum aimed at actual games in development.

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4 hours ago, Monk said:

Let's just understand both sides, let the idea people freely and without restrictions flow the ideas at least SOMEwhere, and then let the programmers freely choose whatever they want to implement or use. That way, everyone benefits.

Before I start, I will say that I have never quite fully agreed with the tone of this thread. The general idea is good and it makes some solid points but leaves a bit to be desired. However, I never could be bothered to really expand my own thoughts of what was really meant here. This also isn't a full expression of the thoughts.

 

Non-programmer idea peddlers and classic hardware don't mix well. If anything, I'd say they should bother the phone app programmers or something and leave us alone.

 

One point with this post is that ideas are not only cheap, when we're talking about the 2600, they are also almost always useless. The reason is that your typical peddler does not understand the technical limits of the 2600 and what it takes to work around them as best as possible to find a compromise, and further does not seem to understand the value of their contribution compared to the value of the work it takes to realize anything remotely similar to it. Most if the ideas that come from this fundamental lack of understanding and totally miss the mark. I wouldn't even know where to begin to explain the many ways that they simply will not work.

 

Also, I will be frank in saying that a glut of half-baked, poorly-executed ideas from a place of basic ignorance can actually be detrimental.

 

In 1981, a friend and I had what we believed to be a great idea for a video game. We spent an afternoon drafting up the idea and we were going to package it all up in a manila envelope and send it to Atari. As the dumb kids we were, we actually believed that our idea could potentially give us a payday. We never did send the idea in, and in a way it's good that we didn't.

 

The idea was this video game called Paperboy.

 

When the real thing came out in 1985, I was pretty shocked at the coincidence. But, it would have been pretty difficult to convince me of the coincidence if I had actually sent the idea in, even though the Paperboy game that Atari actually released was a thousand times better than my concept, as I remember it.

 

In the meantime, I was becoming aware of my ignorance as I had learned to program BASIC and was learning assembly. In 1985 I was working on a game idea with my brother that we planned to program ourselves in 6502 assembly language. However, we didn't get much further than some graphics on the screen. The project was abandoned because we were basically novices at assembly and the game was bit too much for us at the time. By then, though, we did appreciate the sort of effort it does take to actually make such a game.

 

In around 2005ish, before this thread went up, I actually found those old design documents from 20 years before and was working to adapt the game idea to the 2600. Then something very surprising happened. You were wondering how these bad ideas can be deterimental? Well, a non-programmer idea peddler made a post on AtariAge. He described a vaguely similar game to mine, with the same title! The fact that his idea was very poorly executed with horrid MS Paint graphics that would never be possible on a 2600 mattered a lot less than the fact that if I created my own game with a similar concept and the same title I had come up with years before, this peddler would assume I stole his idea and I could never prove otherwise. I felt I had little choice but to abandon my own game idea on the spot and never looked back. My game would never be created because of this idea peddler.

 

What I came to realize is that many ideas actually are quite similar. It would be ignorant to think that I am the only one who thought of a Paperboy video game, or that my poorly-thought-out and ignorant drawings of the game concept that I was going to send to Atari were of any value whatsoever, to anyone.

 

I wonder if Atari was nice about it and sent out a letter thanking kids for ideas. Never mind these ideas are from a place of ignorance and are not likely to be useful in any way. I wonder if anyone there even bothered to look at the flood of ideas? And for that matter, I wonder what Atari did with the countless, unsolicited, low-quality game ideas that kids must have actually sent them back then. If I had to guess, I will bet that exactly zero of them were ever used.

 

I suppose, in the unlikely even that Atari ever found itself with a glut of programmers that needed more to do, and was inexplicably lacking in game ideas, I guess they could have gone through all the submissions they must have gotten to search for the lone baby in the ocean full of bathwater.

 

But for this to work, it seems it would be best to create a forum for unsolicited game ideas, and preface it with the requirement that the idea peddler should not expect anything at all out of the deal, then I suppose we have no problem. But, things don't work like that. So many people think their ideas are like gold, or that those of us who actually create things need (or are searching for) more to do.

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I think this topic was a product of its time.  What I remember was a glut of people asking for free development services without any clear specifications.  Also, declaring that game development was worth nothing because: easy.

 

I tried to engage them with gentle push back:  show me your game design.  Give me gameplay rules.  Give me mock up screenshots.  That usually caused them to stop responding.

 

A few years go by and now I just see novices willing to at least consider doing it themselves with community support.  Elitism and newbie entitlement both seem to be at a low point.  I think hashing it out here helped.  Also, the general respect AtariAge members have for each other.

 

UPDATE:  I just realized I may come off as contradicting what batari just said.  Nope.  Nope nope.  Just adding my own experiences.

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On 2/25/2021 at 11:33 AM, Thomas Jentzsch said:

There were just too many posts where the latter were presenting their ideas in a way, that developers should be grateful if they are allowed to implement them. Usually without even a basic understanding of the system limitations, no thought out concepts, no details, nothing. Some of these people even didn't even want to get into detail, because they were afraid someone might steal their idea. 

It's the same in real working life. As a firmware developer I am fighting every day with people that had no idea on how complicated a "simple" modification could be, with no understanding of machine limits, with poor or no specifications, etc. etc. etc.

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I can't tell you how many times I have been approached in real life to either "help" someone work on their "great" idea (not just related to video games, but all of tech), or asked a question that shows the depth of ignorance out there.

 

Lots of people seem to want to know how to program video games, and that's fine. However, I've had many approach me about it. Usually they ask me, "How do you program a video game?" I am not sure the question is really answerable at all when it's always asked by someone who's never typed a line of code in their entire lives.

 

The first time someone asked me this, I couldn't really answer at all. By the second time I responded by saying that programming video games isn't that much different than programming in general, so if they want to learn how, they should start by taking a programming class. Naturally they don't like the answer, as it seems they assumed programming a video game was about as difficult as, say, programming a VCR. As if you press a few buttons, type in a few "codes" and a fully-formed video game appears on the screen that you can sell for massive $profits$.

 

At least if they did take the class, they could begin to get a modicum of perspective to what challenges the programmers actually face.

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I can't tell you how many times I have been approached in real life to either "help" someone work on their "great" idea (not just related to video games, but all of tech), or asked a question that shows the depth of ignorance out there.

 

Lots of people seem to want to know how to program video games, and that's fine. However, I've had many approach me about it. Usually they ask me, "How do you program a video game?" I am not sure the question is really answerable at all when it's always asked by someone who's never typed a line of code in their entire lives.

 

The first time someone asked me this, I couldn't really answer at all. By the second time I responded by saying that programming video games isn't that much different than programming in general, so if they want to learn how, they should start by taking a programming class. Naturally they don't like the answer, as it seems they assumed programming a video game was about as difficult as, say, programming a VCR. As if you press a few buttons, type in a few "codes" and a fully-formed video game appears on the screen that you can sell for massive $profits$.

 

At least if they did take the class, they could begin to get a modicum of perspective to what challenges the programmers actually face.

 

 

This is a great answer. I took programming classes in high school and continued taking them in college.

 

Do I code video games today? No, because coding takes talent, a lot of practice(time), and is hard work. Also, I have found that I don’t really like programming unless it’s a CNC machine for some reason.

 

For these reasons and a few others I have great admiration and respect for those that create video games because it is an impressive skill and talent.

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