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Zonie

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I may look in to the late feeback thing. Thanks!

 

Forget about this. It doesn't work. You can always leave feedback after the 90 day period. All it takes is the item number and the seller's name. I'd recommend giving him negative feedback if things don't work out. For you as a buyer a negative is not that big of a deal, but for a seller it carries more weight.

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I agee with you Zonie. As an eBay seller myself, I ALWAYS leave feedback whenever the buyer has paid. I have yet to get a Negative Feedback on anything I have sold, and I hope it remains that way. It is the responsibility of the seller to make sure that what he/she is selling, that it is what is described in the auction, and to make sure the item is packed properly to be shipped. True customer service is to make sure your customer is satisfied, and that means going the extra mile for them. To me, what Wester is implying, is that if the buyer is really unhappy, and negs or leaves a neutral, my guess is taht Wester would leave the same back. What Wester is missing here, is that he has already recieved his end of the deal, but the buyer hasn't, so its okay to leave bad feedback to the buyer if the buyer leaves bad feedback. That isn't right.

 

 

You would guess wrong then. I'm not that kind of seller. It is just a precautionary measure, mainly for newbies or people that would buy something and then neg for no good reason without trying to contact me if they have a problem. If there is a problem (which there hasn't been yet) I will do what it takes to meke thing right. I'm just not going to wait until I get burned by someone before I protect my status as an honest Ebayer. Maybe I'm wrong in doing this, but it has worked for me so far. I always try to to courtious when contacting a buyer to inform them about feedback. I will not Neg without good reason.

Edited by Wester

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You would guess wrong then. I'm not that kind of seller. It is just a precautionary measure, mainly for newbies or people that would buy something and then neg for no good reason without trying to contact me if they have a problem. If there is a problem (which there hasn't been yet) I will do what it takes to meke thing right. I'm just not going to wait until I get burned by someone before I protect my status as an honest Ebayer. Maybe I'm wrong in doing this, but it has worked for me so far. I always try to to courtious when contacting a buyer to inform them about feedback. I will not Neg without good reason.

 

You, Wester, are indeed a rarity then. Most sellers that wait until the buyer has left feedback to leave feedback for them, do so with the intent of "eye for an eye". I still stand by my point, and sellers have the responsibility to rise above the muck, and do the right thing. If you recieve payment for the auction, you really shouldn't have a choice in the matter about leaving feedback, as you have recieved all that the buyer was meant to give. I think the eBay feedback system is severely flawed in this area (as well as several other areas), but just like so many other things in life, we deal with it, because it is a medium that most of us want to and do use.

 

Anyhow, no offense, Wester. I hope you continue to do the right thing with the feedback issues.

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Just a totally unscientific observation on my part regarding feedback:

 

I've been buying a lot of non-videogame related merchandise lately. On those auctions, the seller leaves feedback as soon as I have paid about 75% of the time. Maybe it's just what I've been buying, but based on that the whole holding feedback hostage thing seems to be specific to videogame sellers. On my main buying account I have left negative feedback for 4 or 5 people over the years and only had one retaliate with a negative. Most sales that went south usually resulted in the seller being NARUed before I could leave feedback.

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I never leave feedback until the buyer has received the item and leaves positive feedback regarding the transaction or sends me an email to let me know that they have received it. Just wanted to let Wester know that he's not the only one. If something goes wrong in the shipping stage, I want a chance to correct it as best I can without having previously left positive feedback. This way I can say something like "buyer was friendly and honest" and really mean it--I think that means more than "paid right away."

 

When I buy, I give feedback as soon as I receive the item and test it. I certainly don't expect sellers to give me a positive just because I hit the "Pay Now" button in a timely fashion.

 

What burns me is the "private feedback." I just received a DOA 7800 from a seller with the private feedback, and I don't think it's even worth negging him for it.

 

 

Just a totally unscientific observation on my part regarding feedback:

 

I've been buying a lot of non-videogame related merchandise lately. On those auctions, the seller leaves feedback as soon as I have paid about 75% of the time. Maybe it's just what I've been buying, but based on that the whole holding feedback hostage thing seems to be specific to videogame sellers. On my main buying account I have left negative feedback for 4 or 5 people over the years and only had one retaliate with a negative. Most sales that went south usually resulted in the seller being NARUed before I could leave feedback.

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I've been lurking WAY too long, but:

 

To my mind, the buyer's end of the deal doesn't end with paying for the auction. It ends when he has received the merchandise and is either happy with it or willing to work out any problem he has with it in a reasonable manner. Premature positive feedback is an invitation to abuse, be it simply leaving a neg without any attempt to working with the seller, feedback extortion, abusive emails, switching items for broken ones and sending them back, all the way to fraudulent item-not-received reports.

 

And a seller has a lot more to lose by receiving a neg!

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Well, I'm very close to having to leave my first two negs, both in relation to video game deals, and neither seller has responded to my e-mail attempts *or* left me feedback yet. We'll see how quickly I get a negative response once I leave a neg for them, if it comes to that.

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Well, I'm very close to having to leave my first two negs, both in relation to video game deals, and neither seller has responded to my e-mail attempts *or* left me feedback yet. We'll see how quickly I get a negative response once I leave a neg for them, if it comes to that.

 

This wont come as a surprise, but the seller has zero incentive to respond. He/she has your money, and has a way of blackmailing you in the form of a retaliatory neg since he didnt leave you your due positive for paying.

As was mentioned, the seller has more to lose by getting a neg than a buyer does, so it realy takes a huge amount of balls to not have an ounce of courtesy and leave you feedback for paying...and even more arrogance to ignore your emails. Despite knowing how much a neg hurts them (sellers) its amazing that so many play games with feedback like they do.

Obviously, my advice is (maybe) one more email at most warning of your intent. If there is still no reply after 24 hrs...

Neg the beyotch.

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Oddly enough, the one I was REALL worried about, and haven't received the package (by parcel post) from yet, actually left me a positive feedback this weekend. So, that was unexpected.

 

The other one had delayed shipping and claimed personal problems (out of town) when I asked about the package. Very apologetic, they promised to send out priority post and that I should have the package in a couple of days, which happened. Unfortunately, the device was far more beat-up than I was led to expect. One joystick doesn't work, the one that does work has black electric tape patching the joystick cable half way down, the power supply rattles when shook, the power button is a little sticky/flakey. The feedback was good from this guy (quick shipping, product as described)... the BIN was high (with S/H included). If they had shipped immediately, I probably wouldn't be upset, even despite the condition being less than expected (Bid in confidence knowing you will get exactly what you see here!). With a high BIN I expected fast shipping and pretty good condition. I really got neither (the fast shipping came after a long delay caused by personal problems, and I'm willing to be understanding.)

 

I'd like them to just get back in touch with me so I can voice my complaints and see if they're willing to do anything at all to make it right. Even if they don't, if they're at least polite and sympathetic... and willing to listen, I probably wouldn't neg them. I might give them a Positive with a B-... you know?

 

But at this point, I'm not going to give them a Positive with a B- so they can give me a retalitory Neg...

 

*sigh*

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I have not heard back, but I did some digging:

 

1. He doesn't give feedback until he gets it. Isn't it customary for the seller to give feedback as soon as the buyer pays, then the buyer give it when the item arrives and is ok or has a dispute?

2. If he gets negative feedback, he reciprocates with negative feedback, even with buyers who paid immediately after close of auction.

3. One buyer even stated that he shipped wht wrong item, and then got neg feedback for asking about it.

4. He even stated that people who complain are the bain of ebay, and always responds to negative feedback with some snyde comment.

 

I'm waiting for his answer. I hate to patronize him with undue positive feedback, but I have ZERO negative feedback, and I'm sure he will retaliate.

 

All I wanted was a working 4-port with no or bad controllers. I didn't even get that. I got a box of crap and a seller that is likely to mess up my feedback rating.

 

 

This is exactly why you should use seperate account for buying and selling on ebay. It does not matter if you get a retalitory neg on a buyer account.

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Some sellers have conditions on buyer accounts with neg feedback.

 

Which could be a pain in the ass.

 

Also, there is something vaugely dishonest, to me, about having two accounts. Not all people with two accounts are shillers, but all shillers have two accounts, for example. If I found out a seller had a "buyer" account, my trust in that seller would go down. I see the justification for doing so, and in a certain respect, it is reasonable (and even made necessary by eBay's screwed feedback system). But it just seems like a bad door to open.

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Oddly enough, the one I was REALL worried about, and haven't received the package (by parcel post) from yet, actually left me a positive feedback this weekend. So, that was unexpected.

 

Chances are then about 99.9999999% this one who left you a positive is legit. If he/she were up to something sneaky, they wouldn't have left feedback. Not getting feedback is a SURE sign you're going to run into a problem, or the seller is hiding something.

 

The other one had delayed shipping and claimed personal problems (out of town) when I asked about the package. Very apologetic, they promised to send out priority post and that I should have the package in a couple of days, which happened. Unfortunately, the device was far more beat-up than I was led to expect. One joystick doesn't work, the one that does work has black electric tape patching the joystick cable half way down, the power supply rattles when shook, the power button is a little sticky/flakey. The feedback was good from this guy (quick shipping, product as described)... the BIN was high (with S/H included). If they had shipped immediately, I probably wouldn't be upset, even despite the condition being less than expected (Bid in confidence knowing you will get exactly what you see here!). With a high BIN I expected fast shipping and pretty good condition. I really got neither (the fast shipping came after a long delay caused by personal problems, and I'm willing to be understanding.)

 

I'd like them to just get back in touch with me so I can voice my complaints and see if they're willing to do anything at all to make it right. Even if they don't, if they're at least polite and sympathetic... and willing to listen, I probably wouldn't neg them. I might give them a Positive with a B-... you know?

 

But at this point, I'm not going to give them a Positive with a B- so they can give me a retalitory Neg...

 

*sigh*

 

Case in point what I said above.

This guy farted around sending your item, (yeah, "personal" problems= I FORGOT) and then sent a non-working item.

Was there anything missing that he couldn't have tested it? Power supply, RF cord, etc? If everything was there then he/she knew the condition it was being sold in (not-properly working) and tried pulling a fast one. Withholding feedback prooves that. I'd still neg him after one last email and 24 hours time to reply.

 

Also, there is something vaugely dishonest, to me, about having two accounts. Not all people with two accounts are shillers, but all shillers have two accounts, for example. If I found out a seller had a "buyer" account, my trust in that seller would go down. I see the justification for doing so, and in a certain respect, it is reasonable (and even made necessary by eBay's screwed feedback system). But it just seems like a bad door to open.

 

Under "normal" rules I would actually see where you are coming from. But, since there are sellers who abuse the feedback system pulling the crap they do it is necessary. I actually have three myself. One for selling, the other 2 for buying. The 2 buying accounts I have 2 negs each on, both were from a*hole sellers who tried playing games with the item they sent (or didnt send :twisted: ) and I got a crybaby retaliatory neg for giving them a neg.

If it weren't for these jerks, I'd only need one.

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Yeah, me too, I have a selling account and a buying account, so i can neg sellers when necessary without retaliatory negs affecting my own selling.

 

And I don't always wait for feedback before leaving it. Usually if a buyer is going to start playing games it happens pretty quickly... I'll leave a positive first if they've had the item for a while.

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Some sellers have conditions on buyer accounts with neg feedback.

 

Which could be a pain in the ass.

 

Also, there is something vaugely dishonest, to me, about having two accounts. Not all people with two accounts are shillers, but all shillers have two accounts, for example. If I found out a seller had a "buyer" account, my trust in that seller would go down. I see the justification for doing so, and in a certain respect, it is reasonable (and even made necessary by eBay's screwed feedback system). But it just seems like a bad door to open.

 

 

Usually, the most of the conditions I see on neg feedback are for buyer with a minus score or with lots of negs, not accounts with lots of positive and a neg or two.

 

I don't see anything dishonest about it. As long as the accounts are legitimate accounts, ebay would quickly catch any shill bidding. Savvy Buyers would also quickly spot shill bidding. Ebay specifically allows multiple accounts as long as the information is correct. There is more danger of shill bidding from throw away accounts that shaddy sellers setup or friends of shady sellers.

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1. He doesn't give feedback until he gets it. Isn't it customary for the seller to give feedback as soon as the buyer pays, then the buyer give it when the item arrives and is ok or has a dispute?

 

 

 

 

I do the same thing too. I don't leave feedback for anyone until they get the item I sold them, I tell them to leave me feedback to let me know they have recieved the item and are satisfied. That way I don't have anything to worry about i.e. someone neging me for any reason without first contacting me with any problem they might have.

 

I don't agree with your feedback method. It should be the responsibility of the seller to feedback about buyer payment, as that's about all you can honestly rate a buyer on. Whether he paid you promptly or not.

 

the buyer should give feedback relating to the condition and or if he received the item as advertised, and if it was packed peoperly. The fb system pretty much sucks and is open to unfair practices like retaliation. people don't often read the needback of a neg feedback author.

 

Ebay is a marketplace. the Seller is selling a product, and has a responsibility to the buyer to be honest and not take someone's money without return of a good product. The buyer is the person giving up the cash, they should be respected just like a person walking into a store.

 

Unfortunately, ebay favors the seller. I see that a lot of ebay sellers bitch and complain about buyers. One of Billy Galaxy's posts even stated that he hated his job because of "buyers like this" A buyer is usually only pissed if he didn't get what he paid for. It's that simple. If the buyers go away due to bad sellers, then ebay goes away and we can start finding our stuff in the thrifts again!!!

 

I agee with you Zonie. As an eBay seller myself, I ALWAYS leave feedback whenever the buyer has paid. I have yet to get a Negative Feedback on anything I have sold, and I hope it remains that way. It is the responsibility of the seller to make sure that what he/she is selling, that it is what is described in the auction, and to make sure the item is packed properly to be shipped. True customer service is to make sure your customer is satisfied, and that means going the extra mile for them. To me, what Wester is implying, is that if the buyer is really unhappy, and negs or leaves a neutral, my guess is taht Wester would leave the same back. What Wester is missing here, is that he has already recieved his end of the deal, but the buyer hasn't, so its okay to leave bad feedback to the buyer if the buyer leaves bad feedback. That isn't right.

 

Did you pay for your item by Paypal Zonie? If so, start a case investigation with them. That might help you recoup some of your money, and you won't have to go through the "Feedback Shuffle" in the process.

 

 

Hmmm. Good idea. I did pay with paypal AND a credit card to paypal. Double protection!

 

I once sold a commercial refrigerator on ebay with "local pickup only" of course a woman in texas thought arizona and texas were "local" to each other :ponder: I did have it crated for her (at her cost) and let it sit in my driveway until yellow freight came to pick it up. Happy camper, she was even though she paid more to ship it than for the unit that needed stated repairs (condensor coil)

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Well, Here's the latest. The guy sent me a new power supply, the correct one. It works. The switchbox is bad, the relay does not switch, but popping the cover off, and manually actuating it, the 5200 works...sort of. After a while the video gets scrambled. I also have to reseat the cart a few times to make it boot. Maybe it just needs a good cleaning.

 

Bottom line now is, I got what I paid for, save for the dead switchbox, but the price I paid, and the spare 8-bit pws that I have now (that most likely only has a blown fuse). I plan to jumper the switchbox anyway since I use it with a multi-switch.

 

I asked before buying if the "console" works since the controllers were listed as not working. He said yes. I felt the switchbox was part of the console (This is a 4 port) when I asked but this is symantics now.

 

I guess I can fairly give him a positive, since he sent the second power supply at his cost, and didn't ask for the old one back. I will comment it with, "be sure the answers given are for the right question" or" be specific about each component when asking if everything works" or something like that.

 

He didn't tell that the switchbox was faulty, but I didn't ask either. He also stated that the console works, but not for how long after you power it on.

 

I'm sure I can fix the lock-up issue with a cleaning, and the controllers are in great shape other than some of the buttons not working. The rubber boots are intact, and they are clean.

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The only way to beat the retalitory feedback problem is to just not give a shit. My motto is "if the seller deserves it, they get it!"

 

I've taken a couple of recent hits from sellers because I left them negatives, and guess what, I don't give a shit! I gave each of them an opportunity to make it right, and none of them did. Oh, and Paypal f'd me on all of the claims too (kniving bastards!)

 

Other than that, my feedback speaks for itself (feedback)

 

And, just to hopefully piss of some ass-clown seller in the future, I created an about me page that tells them just how I feel. (About Me)

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The only way to beat the retalitory feedback problem is to just not give a shit. My motto is "if the seller deserves it, they get it!"

 

I've taken a couple of recent hits from sellers because I left them negatives, and guess what, I don't give a shit! I gave each of them an opportunity to make it right, and none of them did. Oh, and Paypal f'd me on all of the claims too (kniving bastards!)

 

Other than that, my feedback speaks for itself (feedback)

 

And, just to hopefully piss of some ass-clown seller in the future, I created an about me page that tells them just how I feel. (About Me)

 

Most excellent about me page. I might have to make my own, and copy and paste yours. :D

 

Here's the best line...

"If you don't like what you've read, then most likely you fall into that category of a questionable seller. "

Sadly, many of the sellers who pull the qustionable crap can be found right here. If they defend the inflated shipping...they're probably pulling the scam themselves. If they say they understand the "wait for the buyer to leave feedback so they know all went well isperfectly acceptable" bit, they probably hold feedback hostage themselves.

But definetly..Great page! :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

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So... here were my last two transactions.

 

After a disasterous offer here on AtariAge for a 7800 system with CC2, I decided to just go ahead and pick up a CC2 new and put together my own system. I had seen several 7800 systems with a single game going between $13-20 plus around $12 shipping and handling.

 

So I ordered my CC2, and started a watch list and started bidding. Suddenly there was a run on 7800 systems, with a console with single game and two joysticks going as high as $38 plus $20 shipping and handling. The choices started getting thin, too, and many were bundled, generally with a bunch of common 2600 titles and a few 7800 titles, so prices were being driven up there, too. As my only interest in the 7800 was for the CC2, I didn't need a library and was actually trying to reduce my cart collection, so...

 

Finally I saw someone with a BIN...

 

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewI...me=STRK:MEWN:IT

 

And in desperation, I jumped on it, figuring it was less than they were going for in the bidding wars. I didn't want to wait, as the CC2 arrived very fast and I knew I was burning through my warranty period on it.

 

I could see in the very dark picture that at least one stick was missing it's silver part. But I decided to believe the description of "System has been tested and works GREAT!" and "Bid with confidence knowing what you see is exactly what you will receive".

 

During this period, I forgot that I had set an online sniping tool to bid at the last minute on another 7800 that was just sitting there with one bid for like $4.50. It was clear that I had been sniped on other auctions, and I was just expirementing.

 

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewI...me=STRK:MEWN:IT

 

Anyhow, I won this one too. for a $12.50 bid plus $13 shipping and handling. I figured, I'd have a spare and it would offset paying too MUCH for the first one.

 

So, the second auction, I instantly became concerned about. I didn't realize they didn't accept Paypal, only wanted Money Order or Cashier Check, or had negative feedback *and* private feedback. It just sounded like a bad deal. Fortunately, it wasn't a whole lot of money.

 

The first one, I paid PayPal, and waited. 2 weeks later, the package hadn't arrived. I dropped a note, and got a quick response. It hadn't shipped yet, the seller had a personal problem and was out of town. They said they would ship priority post and it should arrive in 2 days.

 

They did, and it did. The box it came in was falling apart, not sturdy, and had physical holes in it. Inside were some of those Amazon Fill-Air bags (some had popped) and packing peanuts. Inside this sat the 7800 and parts, but not wrapped. Peanuts were down in the cart slot. As I pulled it out, I noticed that one plug on the wallwart was bent pretty badly, and that it rattled. The console itself was in decent condition, and was a very early first edition console with the expansion port but no cover for it. The controllers, one you could see the wires inside the strain-thing where the stick meets the cable, and it had duct tape around the cable half-way down it. The other one was the one missing the silver part. All in all, I was pretty disappointed for a $45 BIN that only included Combat. It hooked up and powered up fine, but the power button is a little flakey (probably just needs to be cleaned). Only one controller worked. The other one doesn't go left. I tried to contact the seller, but haven't heard back yet.

 

The second one arrived parcel post, a week thereafter. I had communicated with the seller and asked her to cross ship if I sent her a scan of the money order, all filled out for her, and she agreed. This unit, neither stick works reliably, and the included 1-on-1 Basketball does not work at all. This seller DID give me positive feedback before I had sent my feedback. It was packed decent in a flat rate postal box. It was a newer unit, no expansion, and in overall better shape, despite the sticks not working and the game being DOA.

 

 

I didn't expect either to be minty or NIB... but in both cases, there were shipping delays, personal problems on the seller end, and either damage in transit due to insufficient packing or undisclosed problems. I didn't feel like any of it was bad enough to neg them, and I didn't ask questions or pay enough attention to the auctions, so I have to accept some of the blame, so I gave both Positives with "decent deal"...

 

Which they were. Decent, but, not the best... so just a heads up on these two for the rest of you guys. If you deal with these sellers, ask lots of questions, and be careful. I don't think they're out to intentionally mislead, but they've obviously got some challenges as sellers.

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Meh...you're not missing much with the proline joysticks not working. If you can believe it, they're actually worse than Colecovision controllers. Your best bet is to get a pair of the NES-style jopads. They're not terribly comfortable either, but at least the fire buttons are where you can get to both for 2-utton games.

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Well, the thing is, I *hate* joypads. If I could tolerate them, I'd probably be pleased-as-pie with Stella emulation. I suppose on any of the consoles that came with d-pads or joypads and the games were designed with that in mind, they're ok... (so anything NES on)... but for the classic systems and classic games, I just don't like the feel of a d-pad... Adventure, Dragonstomper, Pac Man... Dig Dug... they just aren't the same unless you've got a stick.

 

Which normally, I'd probably just stick with a CX40 stick... but there is that problem with the extra button. It has gotten me thinking that at some point I'll probably take some of the extra stuff lying around from my MAME cabinet projects and make my own arcade quality 2 button 7800 stick. Either that or bust out the dremel tool and add a 2nd button to a CX40 case.

 

After picking up an Intellivision recently I was reminded of how much I *hate* those controllers, which are arguably the predecessor of the 8 way d-pad. They're just *sloppy*...

 

I also need to add a correction... After everything was said and done I sent an e-mail to Apieceofheavan, the seller who I got the cheaper 7800 from. She responded quickly that she would see if she could find replacement joysticks for me. So, I've got to give her high marks for even offering to make it right. I think *both* of them are having personal issues recently, according to their bios... which, I suppose happens.

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Meh...you're not missing much with the proline joysticks not working. If you can believe it, they're actually worse than Colecovision controllers. Your best bet is to get a pair of the NES-style jopads. They're not terribly comfortable either, but at least the fire buttons are where you can get to both for 2-utton games.

Bah, all you controller naysayers! All I had back in the day were the Colecovision controllers, and by Crom, I was going to damn well master them, in particular because of Venture! And so I got really good with the CV controllers. I got my 7800 almost 12 years ago, and once again I was determined to master these controllers, too. And so, I got really good with the Pro-Line sticks. This determination and prior success also helped me get over my "fear" of the PS2 controller and now that feels almost second nature (I say almost because I still feel more comfortable with a keyboard and mouse for FPS games). Now, I will admit that time seems to take a toll on the CV and 7800 controllers in a way that it doesn't with the 2600 version, and time has taken a toll on this old gamer because my hands start to cramp up after a couple of hours no matter if I'm using CX-40s or my DS. About the only thing where I don't get hand fatigue is with the Vectrex or a coin-op machine.

Edited by Zwackery

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You know... for all the dragging through the mud that CX52 sticks take... even though they need maintainence from time to time, at least that is *all* the generally need, if well cared for. When you open up a 5200 stick, there is a good chance it will be working when you put it all back together.

 

Not so for a CX40 or CX78 stick. When they start acting broken, it is almost always because, they *are* broken. I had all three sticks open tonight, and short of replacing the circuit or buying 100 of those new little domes, I don't see any hope for breathing new life into them. I don't think I could part the three out to make ONE single working stick, even.

 

I seem to recall that the proper technique with the CV stick was to kind of palm the mushroom, rather than holding it between index and thumb like a real joystick... and maybe I'm nuts, but movement was as much as function of moving the BASE while holding the stick in your palm as it was of pushing the stick in the direction you wanted to go. (So to move up, you would pull the base TOWARD you while pushing the stick away from you at the same time).

 

I really didn't mind the CV joystick that much. It wasn't as comfortable or pretty as the 5200 stick, but, it did do the trick.

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