Is there a 7800 NTSC/PAL hack/mod?

[Gunstar]

I'm curious if any hack/mod was ever done to allow an NTSC 7800 to play PAL games. I'm interested in one that I can have a switch to choose either NTSC or PAL compatiblity. This is what I'd prefer to do. If no ones ever done a mod like this, or if it's not possible, then would it be possible to use a U.S. 7800 power adapter with a PAL 7800? Is the output of the adapters the same? I have a monitor that can handle both 50/60hz, and I've done an s-video/video upgrade to my NTSC 7800, so the display isn't a problem, and if I were to buy a PAL 7800 (assuming I can use a U.S. adapter with it), then I'd do the same video mod on it to hook up to my monitor. I just couldn't resist buying a lot of 6-7 PAL 7800 games, the price was too good, and I didn't have the titles already, that's why I want to do this. If I have no options, I'll just resell, but I'm really hoping I can use them. Also, can PAL 7800's play NTSC games (regardless of color problems or a scrunched screen)?

Edited March 11, 2006 by Gunstar

[Bruce Tomlin]

Basically you need to do a BIOS EPROM mod and put in a copy of the BIOS with the byte at $F4F5 changed to zero to bypass the digital signature check.

[+Mitch]

Let's see here, Bruce is correct in that you can play PAL 7800 games on your NTSC 7800 with a BIOS mod but that really only get's you past the authentication check. A lot of PAL games still don't play right, either freezing up or just having corrupt graphics/display.

 

PAL 7800s will take any 7800 power supply, but you will only get a black and white display on your monitor unless it can handle the PAL color format. The only exception is the rare PAL 7800s that output RGB. Then, as long as your monitor has an RGB input, you will be fine.

 

Regarding installing a switch, in theory it will work. First, you would need to get a universal 7800 motherboard which I have only see in PAL 7800s. It has the jumpers needed to change between NTSC and PAL modes. Be aware that you will also need to have a way of swapping the TIA and Maria chips as well as the main crystal and audio circuit inductor.

 

If you do decide to try it please let us know how it works out.

 

Mitch

[Gunstar]

Thanks for the info Bruce&Mitch, I'll look into what you suggested. I did expect to have to change out some chips and stuff, and, as a matter of fact my monitor does have RGB. So if I can track down one of those universal PAL machines, I might be in business. but I've got 3 7800's and one of them is already a "mod" machine with S-video&audio out jacks. so I'll check out the mod too, just do it for the fun of it and see if I can get the games I have to work with it. I got a good deal on them, so as I said, if I decide it's too much trouble, I can resell the games and probably make a profit. But the main thing is that I only ever see these games for sale in the NTSC versions from rip-off artist E-bay stores that have auctions for "buy it now" only auctions and want $65-100 or more for the same games I see PAL format selling for 9.95 U.K. (or about $15-20 U.S) a hell of a lot better than $64+! The bundle I got cost me $50, less than the price of 1 of the "cheaper" $65 games from rape artists. All boxed in excellent condition. Alien Brigade. Motor Psycho, Basketbrawl, Xenophobe, Xevious, Cracked and Desert Falcon. Now some of these I already have, and are common games but that's what happens when you buy bundles, then just sell the doubles. but I was mainly interested in the first four which are some of the exact games I've seen ONLY with huge buy-it-now prices for NTSC versions.

Edited March 13, 2006 by Gunstar

[Mayhem]

Actually if my experiences are anything to go by, you'll need a step-up transformer. My PAL 7800 doesn't like the NTSC power supply (using a stepdown) and my NTSC 7800 doesn't like the PAL power supply. Something ever-so-slightly different between the two.

[Jobf]

Actually if my experiences are anything to go by, you'll need a step-up transformer. My PAL 7800 doesn't like the NTSC power supply (using a stepdown) and my NTSC 7800 doesn't like the PAL power supply. Something ever-so-slightly different between the two.

 

Ugh, damn I just won a NTSC 7800 (to S-vid mod) with all hookups on Ebay NL for $14.50 and was hoping to use my PAL power supply. I'll have to get a converter then to go with the US PS. What exactly do you mean when you say your 7800 doesn't like it?

 

Cheers,

 

Steve.

Edited March 13, 2006 by Jobf

[+Mitch]

Actually if my experiences are anything to go by, you'll need a step-up transformer. My PAL 7800 doesn't like the NTSC power supply (using a stepdown) and my NTSC 7800 doesn't like the PAL power supply. Something ever-so-slightly different between the two.

 

Hmm, that's weird, maybe the UK power is messed up.

All 4 of my PAL 7800s play just fine with my US 7800 power supply. As long as the 7800 has 9 Volts and 1 Amp it should be happy.

 

Mitch

[Mayhem]

Ugh, damn I just won a NTSC 7800 (to S-vid mod) with all hookups on Ebay NL for $14.50 and was hoping to use my PAL power supply. I'll have to get a converter then to go with the US PS. What exactly do you mean when you say your 7800 doesn't like it?

 

It emits a high pitched whine and turns itself off after 30 seconds. So I had to get a US 7800 power supply and use it with a stepdown here. Of course it might just be the 7800 I bought. I can't say for sure.

 

@Mitch - must be just my PAL 7800 then, it doesn't like the NTSC power supply but then again, my one is one of those reproductions available and not the real deal.

[Jobf]

Ugh, damn I just won a NTSC 7800 (to S-vid mod) with all hookups on Ebay NL for $14.50 and was hoping to use my PAL power supply. I'll have to get a converter then to go with the US PS. What exactly do you mean when you say your 7800 doesn't like it?

 

It emits a high pitched whine and turns itself off after 30 seconds. So I had to get a US 7800 power supply and use it with a stepdown here. Of course it might just be the 7800 I bought. I can't say for sure.

 

 

Received my NTSC 7800 today and it works great with my UK 7800 power supply. Never knew the NTSC model had a red power LED. Cool!

[Mayhem]

I wonder though... my NTSC 7800 is one of the early models with the expansion port. Maybe that's a possible difference here...?

[+Mitch]

I wonder though... my NTSC 7800 is one of the early models with the expansion port. Maybe that's a possible difference here...?

 

Shouldn't be any difference in the power requirements, if you have a voltmeter you might check to see if your power supplies are outputting the proper voltage.

 

Mitch

[Mayhem]

All I can say is that my NTSC 7800 works fine with the NTSC power supply (both here and in the US) and my PAL 7800 works fine with the PAL power supply, but neither work okay with the other supply.

 

I just have funny hardware. Or power supplies

[ApolloBoy]

Never knew the NTSC model had a red power LED. Cool!

 

Wait, didn't the PAL 7800 have a red power light too?

[+Mitch]

Never knew the NTSC model had a red power LED. Cool!

 

Wait, didn't the PAL 7800 have a red power light too?

 

No, it is green.

 

Mitch

[Spector]

Ugh, damn I just won a NTSC 7800 (to S-vid mod) with all hookups on Ebay NL for $14.50 and was hoping to use my PAL power supply. I'll have to get a converter then to go with the US PS. What exactly do you mean when you say your 7800 doesn't like it?

 

It emits a high pitched whine and turns itself off after 30 seconds. So I had to get a US 7800 power supply and use it with a stepdown here. Of course it might just be the 7800 I bought. I can't say for sure.

 

 

Received my NTSC 7800 today and it works great with my UK 7800 power supply. Never knew the NTSC model had a red power LED. Cool!

 

I'm interested to know how a UK user got an NTSC 7800 to work over here. Does your 7800 show the correct colours in games? I thought you needed an AV modification to play an NTSC 7800 over in Blighty.

[Bruce Tomlin]

I'm interested to know how a UK user got an NTSC 7800 to work over here. Does your 7800 show the correct colours in games? I thought you needed an AV modification to play an NTSC 7800 over in Blighty.

They have multi-standard TVs over there, you know. Presumably they support NTSC RF input as well. I know I once got things working on a multi-standard TV that I found in a thrift store years ago. After I replaced that Euro RF plug with an RCA jack, that is.

[Mayhem]

The NTSC 7800s that myself and Steve bought have been S-video modded. UK TVs support NTSC for years now. At least via composite and S-video. In general they don't through RF, hence part of the need for a mod. The other is for a much better quality in general

[Jobf]

They have multi-standard TVs over there, you know. Presumably they support NTSC RF input as well. I know I once got things working on a multi-standard TV that I found in a thrift store years ago. After I replaced that Euro RF plug with an RCA jack, that is.

 

The NTSC 7800s that myself and Steve bought have been S-video modded. UK TVs support NTSC for years now. At least via composite and S-video. In general they don't through RF, hence part of the need for a mod. The other is for a much better quality in general

 

 

My 7800 hasn't been modded yet. I'm waiting for 8bitdomain to get their supply in order and then I'll get one and get someone more technically minded than me to fit it!

 

I do however have a multi-system TV as Bruce says and it plays fine through the RF.

On my PAL only set, it plays in black and white with no sound (as to be expected).

 

 

Cheers

 

Steve

[Spector]

I do however have a multi-system TV as Bruce says and it plays fine through the RF.

On my PAL only set, it plays in black and white with no sound (as to be expected).

 

 

I'm really surprised to hear this. To get the right colours through an RF connection is something I thought didn't happen on UK TV's. I thought only through S-Video or AV, not via RF. Makes me wonder whether I should go out and get one myself if it's as simple as that. I've got an NTSC compatible TV, but I never considered that RF would take an NTSC picture without changing the colours.

[Jobf]

I do however have a multi-system TV as Bruce says and it plays fine through the RF.

On my PAL only set, it plays in black and white with no sound (as to be expected).

 

 

I'm really surprised to hear this. To get the right colours through an RF connection is something I thought didn't happen on UK TV's. I thought only through S-Video or AV, not via RF. Makes me wonder whether I should go out and get one myself if it's as simple as that. I've got an NTSC compatible TV, but I never considered that RF would take an NTSC picture without changing the colours.

 

An 'NTSC compatible' TV may not be the same as a 'multi-system' TV. A multi-system TV has a NTSC US (& Jap) TV tuner built in alongside the PAL one.

 

They aren't that common in the UK and it's unlikely you have one by chance because of the rarity and also it would have cost considerably more than one with just a PAL tuner.

 

They pop up on Ebay UK every now and then. A Sony 21" just sold for £62. They aren't as in demand now because most things have AV plugs now. Only real use is if you travel say a lot and want to take your TV with you.

Edited March 22, 2006 by Jobf

[Mayhem]

I'm glad Steve made the differential point there before I did

 

Almost all TVs in the UK for the last 5-10 will support NTSC fine through composite and S-video. However finding a TV that supports NTSC through RF via having a different tuner is quite hard to do. I know they exist, but I don't think I've ever seen one.

 

The problem exists because the frequency range on the UHF channels for the PAL TV tuner don't go low enough to pick up the signals emitted by an NTSC device through RF. If they did, we wouldn't have a problem using NTSC RF equipment here. It would mean I'd consider getting a 5200 at some point! As it stands, I'd need one modded to composite/S-video as well to use it properly here.

[walter_J64bit]

Yes I think you have to use a old Commodore monitor if the 7800 had a A/V mod.

[Danno]

I'm glad Steve made the differential point there before I did

 

Almost all TVs in the UK for the last 5-10 will support NTSC fine through composite and S-video. However finding a TV that supports NTSC through RF via having a different tuner is quite hard to do. I know they exist, but I don't think I've ever seen one.

 

The problem exists because the frequency range on the UHF channels for the PAL TV tuner don't go low enough to pick up the signals emitted by an NTSC device through RF. If they did, we wouldn't have a problem using NTSC RF equipment here. It would mean I'd consider getting a 5200 at some point! As it stands, I'd need one modded to composite/S-video as well to use it properly here.

 

All Atari Products (and pretty much all NTSC game consoles) transmit their signal on VHF channels 3-4.

 

I've never seen a games console use UHF ever.

[Shawn]

I'm glad Steve made the differential point there before I did

 

Almost all TVs in the UK for the last 5-10 will support NTSC fine through composite and S-video. However finding a TV that supports NTSC through RF via having a different tuner is quite hard to do. I know they exist, but I don't think I've ever seen one.

 

The problem exists because the frequency range on the UHF channels for the PAL TV tuner don't go low enough to pick up the signals emitted by an NTSC device through RF. If they did, we wouldn't have a problem using NTSC RF equipment here. It would mean I'd consider getting a 5200 at some point! As it stands, I'd need one modded to composite/S-video as well to use it properly here.

 

All Atari Products (and pretty much all NTSC game consoles) transmit their signal on VHF channels 3-4.

 

I've never seen a games console use UHF ever.

 

 

Some wacjy famiclones run on channel 33 no joke. I saw a fami shaped like a Playstation at a video game show in Toronto that was setup like that. I would have said the same thing as you Danno if I had not seen that system with my own eyes.

[Mayhem]

All Atari Products (and pretty much all NTSC game consoles) transmit their signal on VHF channels 3-4.

 

I've never seen a games console use UHF ever.

 

That's what's known as a "typo" on my part

 

PAL products output UHF... as far as I've learnt it applies to anything that uses around channel 13 or above, whereas VHF applies to anything below.