airraid Posted March 13, 2006 Share Posted March 13, 2006 (edited) since this is 'Classic Gaming General' I feel this post is just fine for this part of the AtariAge forums this is about comparing the 1988 CPS Arcade Ghouls 'n Ghosts to the 1990 SuperGrafx Ghouls 'n Ghosts, which is often said to be arcade perfect or nearly arcade perfect (which I totally disagree with). The SuperGrafx for those that don't know, is basicly a "TurboGrafx 1.5". it came out only in Japan, only approximately 50,000 systems were produced, and only 5 dedicated SuperGrafx games were released, plus 2 'hybrid' games that worked on the normal PC-Engine (Japanese TG16) but ran better on a SuperGrafx without flicker.... Anyway, Ghouls 'n Ghosts was THE killer app for the SuperGrafx. It was the first 8-megabit home videogame ever made (no, Strider on MD/Genesis was not the first), and it *was* the best home translation of Ghouls 'n Ghosts when it came out (mid 1990), but I wanted to burst the bubble of it supposedly being 'identical' to the arcade, and, the phrase I hate most in life: 'arcade perfect'. does SuperGrafx look the same as Arcade? the 'arcade perfect' (not) SuperGrafx vs Arcade (look at the swamp background in the distance) SuperGrafx Arcade still not convinced? SuperGrafx stage 3-2 Arcade stage 3-2 (Arcade stone monsters have claws, but not on SuperGrafx. the clouds are much better too) Edited March 13, 2006 by airraid Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
airraid Posted March 13, 2006 Author Share Posted March 13, 2006 (edited) trial by fire! SuperGrafx Arcade _______________________ SuperGrafx (the fire really sucks here) Arcade (all the fire looks great!) SuperGrafx (not much detail....) Arcade (look at the exellent DETAIL in the wall~entrance!) _______________ Arcade (detailed wall, bones, and tent!) _______________ SuperGrafx (where'd all the great detail go?) ________________ Arcade (nice skeleton) ________________ SuperGrafx (hey! give that skeleton back!) (nevermind the somewhat blurry, washed out, over-bright look of the last few arcade screens, I had to do capture them using MAME and I turned up the pause-brightness so you could see the detail better) p.s. the Xbox & PS2 version in Capcom Classics Collection is not 100% exact to the arcade, although it is MUCH MUCH closer than the SuperGrafx version. the Xbox version is based directly on the not-QUITE-exact but pretty close Playstation rendition from Capcom Generation vol. 2. so, I hope that any illusions of the SuperGrafx Ghouls 'n Ghosts being, heh, 'arcade perfect', have been completely and utterly DESTROYED Edited March 13, 2006 by airraid Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JB Posted March 13, 2006 Share Posted March 13, 2006 Or maybe SuperGrafx Ghouls N Ghosts is actually a heavily enhanced version of Pong? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jess Ragan Posted March 13, 2006 Share Posted March 13, 2006 Yeah, I got tired of the tools at EGM saying things like "This version of Ghouls 'n Ghosts makes the Genesis game look CHEESY!" or "This version blows the Genesis game AWAY!" Whatever. The Genesis version of Ghouls 'n Ghosts was a damn fine arcade translation, and although it was an improvement in some respects, the Supergrafx version wasn't good ENOUGH to spend hundreds of dollars on a game system with a whopping library of seven games. Having EGM dangle the Supergrafx over their readers' noses like it was some kind of golden carrot made gamers think that the system was a whole lot better than it actually was. However, the truth is that the Supergrafx is little more than NEC's answer to the 32X. Shame on Steve Harris and Martin Alessi for working their readers into a lather over a system that deserved almost none of the hype that surrounded it! JR Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
airraid Posted March 13, 2006 Author Share Posted March 13, 2006 (edited) a few articles on SuperGrafx from EGM showing how much they over-hyped Ghouls 'n Ghosts (note that 'The Mountain King' is Granzort) oh I forgot one set of comparison pics and cannot sqeeze any more into my OP SuperGrafx Arcade (the blue wall on the right looks awesome in the Arcade, but not nearly so on SuperGrafx) Edited March 17, 2006 by airraid Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vic George 2K3 Posted March 13, 2006 Share Posted March 13, 2006 I just find it odd that NEC called its PC Engine "semi-sequel" the SuperGrafx in Japan. Rather inconsistent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+FujiSkunk Posted March 13, 2006 Share Posted March 13, 2006 I just find it odd that NEC called its PC Engine "semi-sequel" the SuperGrafx in Japan. Rather inconsistent. Kind of like Namco using "Pac-Man" in all the Japanese sequels to Puck-Man? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
airraid Posted March 13, 2006 Author Share Posted March 13, 2006 I just find it odd that NEC called its PC Engine "semi-sequel" the SuperGrafx in Japan. Rather inconsistent. Yes, it made it sound like an American NEC game system. even EGM mentioned that Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ze_ro Posted March 13, 2006 Share Posted March 13, 2006 Wow, nice comparison. I always wondered how this stacked up to the arcade version. Aside from some graphical differences though, how's the gameplay? --Zero Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
airraid Posted March 13, 2006 Author Share Posted March 13, 2006 Wow, nice comparison. I always wondered how this stacked up to the arcade version. Aside from some graphical differences though, how's the gameplay? --Zero SG GnG gameplay is remarkably good. no slowdowns from what I remember. the gameplay between the Arcade, MegaDrive-Genesis and SuperGrafx versions are all extremely similar if not the same. unlike say, the MegaDrive-Genesis version of Altered Beast, which plays and feels VERY differently from the arcade (not to mention looks different). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NE146 Posted March 13, 2006 Share Posted March 13, 2006 Yep. I got good at the Genesis version to the point I could beat it in one sitting. Turns out that same skill transferred to the arcade version just as easily. I'd go there (to Golfland Arcade in Sunnyvale CA) and beat it with one quarter regularly thanks to the Genny version Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Han Posted March 13, 2006 Share Posted March 13, 2006 Yep. I got good at the Genesis version to the point I could beat it in one sitting. Turns out that same skill transferred to the arcade version just as easily. I'd go there (to Golfland Arcade in Sunnyvale CA) and beat it with one quarter regularly thanks to the Genny version You can beat the arcade version of GnG with just one credit?! Playing it to the real ending? My god, I am not worthy ... I tried like mad to complete it, using just one credit, when I was in school, but only got as far as the hairy and caped level 5 boss... And these days I still can't for the life of me finish the damn thing even when using unlimited credits in MAME ... ARGH!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
airraid Posted March 13, 2006 Author Share Posted March 13, 2006 Yep. I got good at the Genesis version to the point I could beat it in one sitting. Turns out that same skill transferred to the arcade version just as easily. I'd go there (to Golfland Arcade in Sunnyvale CA) and beat it with one quarter regularly thanks to the Genny version wow awesome because the gameplay is so extremely similar between ARC-GEN-SGX, your skills on one ver are indeed complete transferable, I was just playing each one just to be sure. these three and the four more recent ports, SAT, PS1, PS2, Xbox all have the same bug too, if you get to the second ladder on the first stage, jump above it and keep pressing up you will continue to 'climb' up even though there's no visible ladder. very amusing Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jess Ragan Posted March 13, 2006 Share Posted March 13, 2006 I stand by my opinion that Ghouls 'n Ghosts is the best of the games in the series. I did NOT like Super Ghouls 'n Ghosts (which should have been renamed Super Ghosts 'n Goblins, because its gameplay more closely resembles the first game on the NES), and the Maximo series, while pretty good for a 3D remake, just doesn't have the same appeal. JR Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NE146 Posted March 13, 2006 Share Posted March 13, 2006 Yep. I got good at the Genesis version to the point I could beat it in one sitting. Turns out that same skill transferred to the arcade version just as easily. I'd go there (to Golfland Arcade in Sunnyvale CA) and beat it with one quarter regularly thanks to the Genny version You can beat the arcade version of GnG with just one credit?! Playing it to the real ending? My god, I am not worthy ... I tried like mad to complete it, using just one credit, when I was in school, but only got as far as the hairy and caped level 5 boss... And these days I still can't for the life of me finish the damn thing even when using unlimited credits in MAME ... ARGH!! Yeah! I can still beat the game now.. but it'd take me much more continues I don't remember the last time though I went all the way through (i.e. through the entire game twice then beating the Fly & Loki) but it's definitely been a while. I remember though when I used to play the game in the arcade there would sometimes be a small number of people who'd stand behind and watch.. that was cool Yknow.. now that I think about it, Ghouls and Ghosts is probably one of the games that has been done the most justice on it's home ports. I mean.. once you know the game, you can do well on ALL of them. They all nail down the gameplay pretty much.. and that's amazing! The one difference though between some versions is where you start off if you die at a boss. But that's about all I can think about. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
airraid Posted March 13, 2006 Author Share Posted March 13, 2006 (edited) I stand by my opinion that Ghouls 'n Ghosts is the best of the games in the series. I did NOT like Super Ghouls 'n Ghosts (which should have been renamed Super Ghosts 'n Goblins, because its gameplay more closely resembles the first game on the NES), and the Maximo series, while pretty good for a 3D remake, just doesn't have the same appeal. JR yeah, I share basicly the same opinion The one difference though between some versions is where you start off if you die at a boss. But that's about all I can think about. yep, the arcade game lets to start off at the boss when you die, but only with certain rom versions IIRC Edited March 14, 2006 by airraid Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Han Posted March 14, 2006 Share Posted March 14, 2006 (edited) Yeah! I can still beat the game now.. but it'd take me much more continues I don't remember the last time though I went all the way through (i.e. through the entire game twice then beating the Fly & Loki) but it's definitely been a while. I remember though when I used to play the game in the arcade there would sometimes be a small number of people who'd stand behind and watch.. that was cool Yknow.. now that I think about it, Ghouls and Ghosts is probably one of the games that has been done the most justice on it's home ports. I mean.. once you know the game, you can do well on ALL of them. They all nail down the gameplay pretty much.. and that's amazing! The one difference though between some versions is where you start off if you die at a boss. But that's about all I can think about. Sorry, I had some sort of severe brainlock, I was confusing this with Ghosts'n Goblins... But still, defeating Ghouls and Ghosts is equally impressive. I never got anywhere in it at all... Do you have to complete Ghouls and Ghosts twice as well? Aaah, yeah I remember the crowd, standing there admiring one when playing.. or quite often; laugh when one died at the first boss... Edited March 14, 2006 by Han Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trip_Cannon Posted March 14, 2006 Share Posted March 14, 2006 What were all the games released for the SG? Wasn't Strider one of them? I think I remember it getting the same kind of hyped up treatment that GnG got... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
airraid Posted March 14, 2006 Author Share Posted March 14, 2006 (edited) What were all the games released for the SG? Wasn't Strider one of them? I think I remember it getting the same kind of hyped up treatment that GnG got... here is the list of games that got released for the SuperGrafx: 1.) Battle Ace (1989) pesudo 3D shooter 2.) Granzort / Grandzort / The Mountain King (1990) sequel to Keith Courage in Alpha Zones 3.) DaiMakaiMura / Ghouls 'n Ghosts (1990) the subject of this thread 4.) Aldynes (1991) side scrolling space shmup like R-Type 5.) 1941 Counter Attack (1991) nice translation of the Capcom coin-op arcade two hybrid games were also released, Darius Plus and Darius Alpha. these were PC-Engine games that when played on a SuperGrafx, did not have flicker thanks to SuperGrafx ability to push twice as many sprites (128) compared to the standard PC-Engine (64). unreleased ~ rumored games that were listed in mail-order game companies as 'TBA' in 1990-1992: Strider (may not have ever even existed at all) Galaxy Force II (a translation of the Sega arcade game, rumored to have been showed to the press in Japan Forgotten Worlds OutRun Strider was the most infamous of the unreleased SuperGrafx games. many stories have been told about it, many rumors exist (including the supposed suicide or hospitalization of the main programmer) but from what I understand NEC never actually announced Strider. any pictures you have seen of the supposed SuperGrafx Strider are actually most likely either pictures of the Arcade or the Sharp X68000 home computer version. p.s. the Strider that came out for the PC-Engine Arcade Card CD is not the same thing as the supposed SuperGrafx Strider. since the PC-Engine even with the CD-ROM and Arcade Card, is not as powerful as the SuperGrafx, the released Arcade Card version does not live upto the claims (or false claims) of the rumored/supposed SuperGrafx Strider. edit: here are the pictures that EGM published of what they claim is the SuperGrafx Strider this comes from the letters section of EGM Number 18 (G.I. JOE cover), January, 1991 - page 17. but as I said, these pictures are almost certainly from either the CPS Arcade version or the X68000 version which was extremely close to the arcade, far superior to the MD-Genesis version, and beyond the capabilities of the SG. here is another image of one of the same pictures, which was also seen in Die Hard Game Club ads and here we have Japanese magazine article(s) (probably Famitsu) but once again, these pics are almost assuredly from the Arcade or X68000. it is the opinion of most reasonable gamers and collectors that SuperGrafx Strider was bullshit, that it never existed. Edited March 14, 2006 by airraid Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jess Ragan Posted March 14, 2006 Share Posted March 14, 2006 My understanding was that the programmer of Strider for the TurboDuo was the one who committed suicide, not this vaporware version for the SuperGrafx. Apparently, it was such a sad-sack conversion of the game that he couldn't even look himself in the mirror. Oh, those wacky Japanese and their over the top work ethic! JR Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
airraid Posted March 14, 2006 Author Share Posted March 14, 2006 (edited) My understanding was that the programmer of Strider for the TurboDuo was the one who committed suicide, not this vaporware version for the SuperGrafx. Apparently, it was such a sad-sack conversion of the game that he couldn't even look himself in the mirror. Oh, those wacky Japanese and their over the top work ethic! JR I never heard that particular version of the story, but, it does make a lot of sense, since the PC-Engine Duo / Arcade Card CD version of Strider sucked monkey testicles. Edited March 14, 2006 by airraid Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JB Posted March 14, 2006 Share Posted March 14, 2006 (edited) What were all the games released for the SG? Wasn't Strider one of them? I think I remember it getting the same kind of hyped up treatment that GnG got... here is the list of games that got released for the SuperGrafx: 1.) Battle Ace (1989) pesudo 3D shooter 2.) Granzort / Grandzort / The Mountain King (1990) sequel to Keith Courage in Alpha Zones 3.) DaiMakaiMura / Ghouls 'n Ghosts (1990) the subject of this thread 4.) Aldynes (1991) side scrolling space shmup like R-Type 5.) 1941 Counter Attack (1991) nice translation of the Capcom coin-op arcade two hybrid games were also released, Darius Plus and Darius Alpha. these were PC-Engine games that when played on a SuperGrafx, did not have flicker thanks to SuperGrafx ability to push twice as many sprites (128) compared to the standard PC-Engine (64). Which games had less flicker, aside from the Dariuses? The extra graphics hardware shouldn't matter to anything other than SuperGrafx games because regular PCEngine and SuperCDROM games are unaware of the extra hardware and thus can't address it. p.s. the Strider that came out for the PC-Engine Arcade Card CD is not the same thing as the supposed SuperGrafx Strider. since the PC-Engine even with the CD-ROM and Arcade Card, is not as powerful as the SuperGrafx, the released Arcade Card version does not live upto the claims (or false claims) of the rumored/supposed SuperGrafx Strider. Less powerful is debatable. While the second graphics chip wasn't present, resulting in half the sprites and background layers, there WAS a 16-bit processor onboard the CD-ROM expansion, making the system far mroe powerful processing-wise(the equivalent of an SNES). Edited March 14, 2006 by JB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
airraid Posted March 14, 2006 Author Share Posted March 14, 2006 (edited) Which games had less flicker, aside from the Dariuses? The extra graphics hardware shouldn't matter to anything other than SuperGrafx games because regular PCEngine and SuperCDROM games are unaware of the extra hardware and thus can't address it. that's what I was thinking too. but apparently the two hybrid Darius games were programmed to take advantage of some of the SuperGrafx hardware and ran without flicker or slowdown when played on the SuperGrafx, even though they could also run on a standard PC-Engine Less powerful is debatable. While the second graphics chip wasn't present, resulting in half the sprites and background layers, there WAS a 16-bit processor onboard the CD-ROM expansion, making the system far mroe powerful processing-wise(the equivalent of an SNES). I think you're thinking of the Sega MegaCD / SegaCD. the PC-Engine CD-ROM2, Super CD-ROM2 / PC-Engine Duo and any other variation of the PC-Engine CD-ROM, did not have a 16-bit CPU onboard. the Sega CD/MegaCD did, it had its own 68000 processor plus a scaling & rotation chip. the only upgrade the PC-Engine CD-ROM systems offered was more RAM. it did not increase the processing power. Edited March 14, 2006 by airraid Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jess Ragan Posted March 14, 2006 Share Posted March 14, 2006 http://www.concentric.net/~flarb/deaths.html Here's a little more data on the legend of the Strider suicide. JR Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
airraid Posted March 14, 2006 Author Share Posted March 14, 2006 http://www.concentric.net/~flarb/deaths.html Here's a little more data on the legend of the Strider suicide. JR thanks, that was interesting to read. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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