courtesi Posted April 8, 2006 Share Posted April 8, 2006 I'm not a troll. I'm seriously interested if there were any games better on the St than Amiga. Since quite a few people think the Jaguar version of Sensible Soccer stinks compared to the Amiga, I am thinking of purchasing an St or Amiga to play this on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goochman Posted April 8, 2006 Share Posted April 8, 2006 For that particular game you might want to just get a JAguar - same game and lower cost/hassle entry point. Im sure there are a few gems out there which are better on the ST vs Amiga, but I would venture most games play about 95% the same with the Amiga getting some enhanced color/sound capabilities the ST couldnt match at the time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GT Turbo Posted April 15, 2006 Share Posted April 15, 2006 3D games and some 3D routs are faster on ST than Amiga, because the 68000 run a bit faster on ST than Amiga. GT Turbo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sikor Posted April 15, 2006 Share Posted April 15, 2006 For me (at this time wchich I remember): StarDust, Pinball Obbsesion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+DarkLord Posted April 15, 2006 Share Posted April 15, 2006 For me (at this time wchich I remember): StarDust, Pinball Obbsesion. Both those games seriously rule. To be totally honest though, they are STe and up... They even work on my Falcon! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
calfranklin Posted April 15, 2006 Share Posted April 15, 2006 For me (at this time wchich I remember): StarDust, Pinball Obbsesion. Both those games seriously rule. To be totally honest though, they are STe and up... They even work on my Falcon! Whatever happened to the ST fans? I've heard very little about this platform in recent years. Are there any new titles for this system? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tjlazer Posted April 15, 2006 Share Posted April 15, 2006 Karateka was made for ST but not for Amiga! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+remowilliams Posted April 15, 2006 Share Posted April 15, 2006 Whatever happened to the ST fans? We're still here My latest ST coolness comes in the form of OutcaST for the GP2X. Handheld ST, yeah! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+DarkLord Posted April 15, 2006 Share Posted April 15, 2006 Whatever happened to the ST fans? I've heard very little about this platform in recent years. Are there any new titles for this system? Oh yeah, we still be here. I think there is more individual support now, rather than direct commercial releases. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
krupkaj Posted April 18, 2006 Share Posted April 18, 2006 For me (at this time wchich I remember): StarDust, Pinball Obbsesion. Both those games seriously rule. To be totally honest though, they are STe and up... They even work on my Falcon! it is a pity that StarDust is not harddrive instalable Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+DarkLord Posted April 18, 2006 Share Posted April 18, 2006 it is a pity that StarDust is not harddrive instalable Ain't that the truth! I have wished that for many games...especially 3 and 4 disk sets. I'd love to get Ultima 5 on HD. Dragons Lair would be so much more playable on HD. (although it still might be near impossible!). What ever happened to that thread about the software that was supposed to do HD emulation or something like that? The one that was supposed to work like the Amiga version? Did anybody ever try that? If so, did it work? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
muguk Posted April 25, 2006 Share Posted April 25, 2006 it is a pity that StarDust is not harddrive instalable Ain't that the truth! I have wished that for many games...especially 3 and 4 disk sets. I'd love to get Ultima 5 on HD. Dragons Lair would be so much more playable on HD. (although it still might be near impossible!). What ever happened to that thread about the software that was supposed to do HD emulation or something like that? The one that was supposed to work like the Amiga version? Did anybody ever try that? If so, did it work? You'll need to have a hackers mind to work out the ULS transfer of *any* game to a HD that originally used direct DMA loading. If you've ever hacked/cracked/filed a game then you've got the skills (if you can remember them) to hack any existing game to make it work with the ULS loader. However, games that use standard files should easily go onto HD inside one folder - it all depends on what tricks they use to detect which disk is in the drive. I've got a link-filer routine sat on my website which strips out the A: and B: from any requested filename and re-directs it to one large link-file which (in theory) should work on your ST's h/drive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doctorclu Posted April 25, 2006 Share Posted April 25, 2006 Speaking from the Jaguar community, Zero 5 is said to be better on the STe/Falcon than on the Jaguar. The Jaguar shares other titles, like Brutal Sports Football, said to be better on the Amiga where it came from. That said, still love the Jag! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marcfrick2112 Posted May 19, 2006 Share Posted May 19, 2006 I'm not a troll. I'm seriously interested if there were any games better on the St than Amiga. Since quite a few people think the Jaguar version of Sensible Soccer stinks compared to the Amiga, I am thinking of purchasing an St or Amiga to play this on. It's an old game, but Barbarian (psygnosis) looked Much better on the ST than on the Amiga, IMHO. I just got Barbarian working through WHDLoad on my miggy, and was disappointed.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+DarkLord Posted May 19, 2006 Share Posted May 19, 2006 I'm not a troll. I'm seriously interested if there were any games better on the St than Amiga. Since quite a few people think the Jaguar version of Sensible Soccer stinks compared to the Amiga, I am thinking of purchasing an St or Amiga to play this on. It's an old game, but Barbarian (psygnosis) looked Much better on the ST than on the Amiga, IMHO. I just got Barbarian working through WHDLoad on my miggy, and was disappointed.... Never played that one, but I always loved its sequel, Barbarian II. Unfortunately, I've not been able to find a copy to buy. I can't remember what happened to the one I had... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord-Chaos Posted May 23, 2006 Share Posted May 23, 2006 Most of the early games were ported from ST to AMIGA and therefore, the AMIGA versions are almost the same, with usually better sound only. Most of these early games don't even use the AMIGA's blitter or it's scrolling and sprites. When it comes to 3D games, the ST runs at 8 Mhz, the A500/2000 at 7.14. But the ST is not only faster, its bitplane system is easier to handle, no huge offsets like on the AMIGA and so much faster 3D routines are possible on the ST. The better ones (3D routines) are usually based on huge tables stored in memory and the ST does have more usable memory than the AMIGA in most cases. There was one Winter Sports game, I think The Games:Winter Edition which looked like the C64 version on the AMIGA, but had great graphics on the ST. I heard that "Epic", a 3D space game is much better on the ST. I only know the AMIGA version. It's slooooow on an A500. "Kaiser" is another game that's better on the ST, because although better-looking, the AMIGA version is slow, very slow. I've read that the original Boulder Dash on the AMIGA is very bad. Boulder Dash isn't great on the ST either, but still playable. I prefer the ST versions of German games like "Wings of Death", "Lethal Excess" , "Chambers of Shaolin" and "Amberstar" by Thalion. Even the chipsounds sound better on the ST. Chiptunes aren't that great on the AMIGA - especially Mr. Hippel's stuff. I also prefer the Bitmap Brothers games on the ST. Xenon II was one of my first games. Most of the French games like "Captain Blood", "Purple Saturn Day" or "Kult" were developed for the ST first. I prefer the ST versions, even the sound is identical (100% digitized). Games that where programmed for the AMIGA first, are usually better on that system. Most of the Psygnosis games like "Beast" or "Blood Money". Or the "Turrican" games. LC Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rybags Posted May 23, 2006 Share Posted May 23, 2006 I'd hardly call the ST bitplanes easier to handle than the Amiga's. The ST has bitplanes mapped as: RR GG BB (3 double-bytes representing 16 pixels) The Amiga maps each bitplane contiguously in it's own area of memory, so you only need to calculate an offset, which can be used to address each one. Plus, you only need to enable as many as you need, so you can have 2, 4, 8, 16, 32, 64 colour modes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
calfranklin Posted May 23, 2006 Share Posted May 23, 2006 Most of the early games were ported from ST to AMIGAand therefore, the AMIGA versions are almost the same, with usually better sound only. Most of these early games don't even use the AMIGA's blitter or it's scrolling and sprites. When it comes to 3D games, the ST runs at 8 Mhz, the A500/2000 at 7.14. But the ST is not only faster, its bitplane system is easier to handle, no huge offsets like on the AMIGA and so much faster 3D routines are possible on the ST. The better ones (3D routines) are usually based on huge tables stored in memory and the ST does have more usable memory than the AMIGA in most cases. There was one Winter Sports game, I think The Games:Winter Edition which looked like the C64 version on the AMIGA, but had great graphics on the ST. I heard that "Epic", a 3D space game is much better on the ST. I only know the AMIGA version. It's slooooow on an A500. "Kaiser" is another game that's better on the ST, because although better-looking, the AMIGA version is slow, very slow. I've read that the original Boulder Dash on the AMIGA is very bad. Boulder Dash isn't great on the ST either, but still playable. I prefer the ST versions of German games like "Wings of Death", "Lethal Excess" , "Chambers of Shaolin" and "Amberstar" by Thalion. Even the chipsounds sound better on the ST. Chiptunes aren't that great on the AMIGA - especially Mr. Hippel's stuff. I also prefer the Bitmap Brothers games on the ST. Xenon II was one of my first games. Most of the French games like "Captain Blood", "Purple Saturn Day" or "Kult" were developed for the ST first. I prefer the ST versions, even the sound is identical (100% digitized). Games that where programmed for the AMIGA first, are usually better on that system. Most of the Psygnosis games like "Beast" or "Blood Money". Or the "Turrican" games. LC Good resource! Can you recommend any ST Music programs that support MIDI to keyboard pianos? Thanks, Cal Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eobet Posted June 27, 2006 Share Posted June 27, 2006 Not really an answer, but International Karate on the ST has completely unique graphics compared to the C64 version, and was never made availible on the Amiga (only IK+ was). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emkay Posted June 27, 2006 Share Posted June 27, 2006 Very much games are "better" on the ST because they are built on the ST first. And, yes the ST has its advantages by the 8MHz clocked Motorola.... because the Chipset of the AMIGA wasn't used as it was given. Remembering that the Blitter in the AMIGA Chipset is as flexible as the Blitter that managed the 3D projection for Wolf 3D on the PC... The "real" Slowdown on the A500 was caused by the "Chipmem" . Similar to the A8 , the Chipset access to this range of Memory stops the CPU access to the memory. With a Memory expansion you got a range of fast access RAM. In this range, the Motorola can fully access the RAM .... But games arent't written for "fastram" + "full blitter usage"... So there is a very small range of games that are "better" than the ST derivates, because stereo PAULA (TFMX) usage and up to 4096 colours were able from scratch and the standard Mode gave easily 32 colours. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emkay Posted June 27, 2006 Share Posted June 27, 2006 (edited) I'd hardly call the ST bitplanes easier to handle than the Amiga's. The ST has bitplanes mapped as: RR GG BB (3 double-bytes representing 16 pixels) The Amiga maps each bitplane contiguously in it's own area of memory, so you only need to calculate an offset, which can be used to address each one. Plus, you only need to enable as many as you need, so you can have 2, 4, 8, 16, 32, 64 colour modes. The ST bitplane handling is somewhat "colour-cell" like. While on the Amiga a linear framebuffer exists. Sometimes I ask myself what those Tramiel/Shivji Computers have, that people put the hell out of them.... Making the C64 a 4 channel Mod player and/or creating 512 colour modes with overscan and fast scrolling with a stock ST.... both aren't given by "default" ... Edited June 27, 2006 by emkay Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Laird Posted June 28, 2006 Share Posted June 28, 2006 Robocop 3 springs to mind. A 3D game that was FAR better on the ST than the Amiga. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rybags Posted June 28, 2006 Share Posted June 28, 2006 There are instances as mentioned when same games will be faster on the ST. These are mainly games like Starglider, which tend to render screens entirely in software, and the nature of which don't really benefit from a blitter. But, if horizontal scrolling, especially more than 1/2 the screen is thrown into the equation, the ST sorely loses out. The bottom line is that the ST was never intended as it was (ie - Atari intended having the Amiga chipset) and hastily developed without the features that it should have had, that were later to appear on the STe. It's almost a crime that they didn't at least have horizontal scrolling and/or sprites in the first place. I think it would be fair to say that Atari's arcade games of the time had far superior graphics handling. And, the original sound hardware IMO is somewhat inferior to POKEY - one saving grace was that the 68K is fast enough to do reasonable sampling without degrading performance too much. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ijor Posted June 28, 2006 Share Posted June 28, 2006 It's almost a crime that they didn't at least have horizontal scrolling and/or sprites in the first place. I think it would be fair to say that Atari's arcade games of the time had far superior graphics handling. And, the original sound hardware IMO is somewhat inferior to POKEY... Some of the ST limitations are indeed a hardware issue, such as better sound or hardware sprites. But others are mostly an oversight, probably because of the rush in the design. Hardware scrolling, at least in word units, needs a ridiculous small amount of extra silicon. For example, to enable screen relocation on any word (as you can do in the STe) , and not just in a page boundary, requires not much more than 7 additional flip-flops. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rybags Posted June 28, 2006 Share Posted June 28, 2006 Didn't someone develop a technique similar to "DMA delay" on the C-64 to overcome the page boundary limit? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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