Visual Variation guide

[orrimarrko]

I'm sure I'm not the only person who's thought of this, but I don't know if it has already been addressed or not.

 

Being a very visual person, I have difficulty following these intricate variation lists.

 

I know that a lot of work has gone into them, but after a few minutes, my eyes start to bug out. Also, for most of the entries, it's difficult to visualize the variation.

 

For example (from Philfound's guide):

 

This is the entry list for Tic-Tac-Toe

 

3-D Tic-Tac-Toe CX2618

 

a) C 2nd txt ©1980, CART1, medium ®, red text

b) R 2nd txt ©1980, CART1, medium ®, purple text

c) R PicBl ©1978, CART1, blue text

d) R PicBl-p ©1978, CART1, blue text, EL: “p” printed on right, PAL

e) R PicBl ©1986, CART3, ML: no “use with...”

f) R PicBl ©1986, CART?, ML: black tape over controller info

g) R PicBl ©1986, CART?, ML: Typo: “use with paddle…”

A) Manual ©1980, black, CO11402-18 on back, 8 pages, 4 x 6.5”, Printed in USA, Rev 1

1) Box ©1980, light blue box, light blue warranty box, © outside warranty box

2) Box ©1986, light blue box, made in Taiwan, Printed in Taiwan, Rev 1 on flap

 

There's a LOT of information there, and I feel as though I need my secret decoder ring to decipher through all of the abbreviations, etc.

 

Believe me, I appreciate the resource, and am in NO WAY knocking the effort - honestly.

 

What I'm wondering though, is if it would be possible to have a database of scans for all of these variations.

 

That way, you could see the cart and identify the variations applicable.

 

Whether this is possible or not isn't really an issue, of course it is.

 

Perhaps there are limitations, due to file size or what not, but it would seem as though this would be possible.

 

Has this been discussed?

 

Now, I'm not saying that every portion of the cart needs to have a pic, but if it applies to the variation, then it could be included.

 

For example, for the different "CART" versions (ie. circuit board covers or lack thereof), they could be identified by description, rather than have a picture of the opening.

 

I would think that pics of the label (and end label where applicable) would be sufficient.

 

Sorry if this has already been done (and I can't seem to find it), but I think this would idea would make a great guide to help with collecting variations.

 

Personally, I would love to be able to just have a checkbox next to a picture and cross them off as I find them.

 

Enough rambling - any thoughts??

 

Peace,

Orri-

[Tempest]

The reason the list is like that is because it is based off an even older list that dates back into the mid 90's. When I took it over from John E., I simply kept his format because at the time I didn't have anything better. I assume Phil left it alone for similar reasons.

 

I've always wanted to do a picture version of the list, but that would be a HUGE undertaking. Someone would have to devote alot (and I mean ALOT) of time to complete something like that. Not to mention they would need access to all these variations.

 

Tempest

[orrimarrko]

The reason the list is like that is because it is based off an even older list that dates back into the mid 90's. When I took it over from John E., I simply kept his format because at the time I didn't have anything better. I assume Phil left it alone for similar reasons.

 

I've always wanted to do a picture version of the list, but that would be a HUGE undertaking. Someone would have to devote alot (and I mean ALOT) of time to complete something like that. Not to mention they would need access to all these variations.

 

Tempest

 

Hey Matt,

 

I know it would be a TON of work. To that extent, I'd be willing to help, if it's something people wanted to do.

 

I can't contribute to the visual component of the guide, but I'm sure there are others who would be willing.

 

Given the vast number of collectors here, I'm sure that we could do it.

 

The "hard part" has already been done - the identification of the variations. Even if it's still a WIP, it's a start, and can always be updated or added to.

 

Orri-

[Rom Hunter]

It's already in the making, guys.

 

Patience.

 

Edited May 26, 2006 by Rom Hunter

[Christophero Sly]

I've looked for ways to add photos to my re-release label lists, but short of a dedicated website, I haven't been able to come up with anything practical or useful.

 

A database of label, box, and instruction variants with visual references is something I've wanted to see for a long time. Currently, this information is scattered across multiple sources and each source has a different focus and a different format. The current resources are split between databases like Atariguide and Atarimania that provide visual references but lack text descriptions and text lists like the giant list of LVARs and Phil's list that lack visual references.

 

If I had the time, technical skills, and could find free web-hosting without advertisments, I'd start a comprehensive website devoted to label variants tomorrow. I've got several ideas for such a project. Unfortunately, like Tempest said, it's a enormous undertaking and would demand a great deal of my time. It would also require the time and commited assistance of a number of dedicated variant collectors.

Edited May 26, 2006 by Christophero Sly

[Lemmi]

when i first started collecting for the 2600 i tried to get into the label variations but some of them are to small for me to even care about, if they are an obvious label variation like color of the label or a different end label or even a misspelling i would pick it up anything else i gave up on, there is just to many variations with 2600 games

[A.J. Franzman]

How about just making a photo "key" illustrating the variations that are hardest to tell apart by text descriptions?

 

For example, the basic difference beween text, black, silver and red labels, the different fonts on the text labels (using one or two titles which have many or all of the letters that are the most different), the different sizes of the "®", upper and lower case for the two black pic label games that were made both ways, the different sizes of the Atari "Fuji" logo, the different "use with..." controller texts (including errors, coverups, and blanks), etc.

Edited May 27, 2006 by A.J. Franzman

[Christophero Sly]

How about just making a photo "key" illustrating the variations that are hardest to tell apart by text descriptions?

 

For example, the basic difference beween text, black, silver and red labels, the different fonts on the text labels (using one or two titles which have many or all of the letters that are the most different) plus upper and lower case for the two games that were made both ways, the different sizes of the "®", the different sizes of the Atari "Fuji" logo, the different "use with..." controller texts (including errors, coverups, and blanks), etc.

That's a good idea. I'll try to create a key for the re-release label lists.

[Philflound]

How about just making a photo "key" illustrating the variations that are hardest to tell apart by text descriptions?

 

For example, the basic difference beween text, black, silver and red labels, the different fonts on the text labels (using one or two titles which have many or all of the letters that are the most different) plus upper and lower case for the two games that were made both ways, the different sizes of the "®", the different sizes of the Atari "Fuji" logo, the different "use with..." controller texts (including errors, coverups, and blanks), etc.

 

Atari Age has many variations on the labels for different games. Do a search on a specific game and you may come up with the variation.

 

I mentioned this the other night in another post. I said I'd probably would do this if I had the time, but it would take me years.

 

The closest thing I've seen to a list of variation pictures is on Atariguide.com. In fact, I looked over his photos to see if there were labels that weren't in the list and I added them appropriately. Though there may be ? on certain parts of the info if it wasn't made apparant in the description. My personal problem is that I get my website for free and they only let me have 20mb. The other problem that may arise is that I try and keep the variations in a semblance of order, most of the time trying to keep them in chronological order of release. So if there are 5 variations, say 1978 text label, 1978 black picture label, 1983 silver label, 1986 grey label, and a 1988 red label, then they would be listed in that order. But if a 1978 black picture label with a "p" is discovered by Staberinde, I fit it in between, making that the 3rd version and bumping the others. The only way to keep a picture variation consistent would be to put the variation next to the description, or have it as a link within the description. I'm interested in seeing what Rom Hunter has in the works.

 

Also, if the list I've been keeping updated is going to be the one used for the photos, then when a new entry is added, I'd have to keep Rom updated with exactly what new info has been discovered.

 

One big problem I have is that my scanner doesn't work with my computer. Someone told me that it had to do with not being compatible to Windows XP. The computer recognizes it being there, but when I go to scan, it just sits there. Since it's relatively old, I wanted to get a new one. But since I haven't been working, I had no money to do it. Hopefully soon.

 

Anyone who wants to help with scans, I'd suggest working on scans of carts, instructions, and boxes that AA doesn't have on their website. So at least we have a starter base. I like the idea of scans because it will prove that a version exists. I think the hardest scans would be the wraparound labels, though you can piece together an end label scan with the main label to make a full label I suppose.

 

As for all the abbreviations, I know it's tough, but the list is huge as it is already. I tried to put all pertinent info in the list, and had to add much to what was originally there. I always found the copyright date to be helpful, along with where it was made/printed. What we'll discover over the next couple of years will probably be even more finer differences with the labels, which will then be pointed out. I've actually ignored some VERY subtle variations that you probably wouldn't even know it was a variation if you didn't hold the 2 carts in your hand and examined them carefully. It had to do with the Codebreaker Sears game I just got. I looked at my old one vs the new one. I don't know how to describe it, but the fonts were a little different. One was thicker than the other, but I tried measuring the length of the sentences, or title and such, and found them to measure exactly the same, down to a fraction of a mm. The most notable difference between the two are the end labels. This seems like a common occurance with Sears versions. The title has a black rectangle around it and the rest of the end label looks faded. The other is solid. I'm attaching a photo of it to show you what it looks like. Also, the one with the solid color end label seems to have turned a little pink on the main label letters, instead of a solid white.

 

So is this a variation? If so, we're going to have a lot of work to do to get all the other Sears games with this flaw.

 

Phil

[Rom Hunter]

Phil,

 

I'm currently working on adding all Atari re-releases to the database of Atarimania.

At the moment I've updated the database up to Home Run:

http://www.atarimania.com/lst_soft.php?MEN...n_sauver=Search

 

Compared to this, the Atari section of AtariAge is seriously lacking a lot of enties.

 

An in-depth label variation guide (with pictures of end-labels and font-differences) could be the next step and I think that the descriptions in your list (and in the re-releases lists of Christophero) are excellent bases for a serious and highly detailed label variations guide.

 

Edited May 27, 2006 by Rom Hunter