Permanent Paddle Fixer Proposal--any interest?

[supercat]

I think I've come up with a paddle mod which should solve jittery paddles once and for all. The mod would require either opening up each paddle, rewiring it, and installing a very small circuit board (one 8-pin chip, three resistors, and a diode), or else opening up and rewiring both paddles and putting a small board (one 8-pin chip, five resistors, and two diodes) between them and the plug (probably replacing the plug with a board that has a plug soldered onto it).

 

Does anyone like either proposal? I need some feedback (related question on the Programming forum) to ensure the design won't have compatibility problems, but the circuit should improve paddle performance enormously. I would expect that with the circuit installed, even the grungiest paddles would work as well as unmodified paddles work when new.

[D.Yancey]

I love this!!!!! I think I would prefer the first mod and keep the same plug on the paddles. Will you be doing these mods for a service charge and selling the circuit boards? People could send you a set of paddles and you could spruce 'em up. Maybe Franzman would be interested in this too?! I might even be able to play Kaboom! for real.

[spikey911]

I would not modify my paddles, I like to keep things original....

 

But I would still be interested in seeing the modification. I think it is great when share the knowledge.

[Rybags]

An inline solution might be best... a small project box which plugs into the computer/console, then plug paddles into it.

 

You could maybe even design a switchable version so that a joystick could plug into it as well.

 

Does this solution work on 2600, 800, and the C-64?

 

I think the C64 returns 0-255 values on paddles although the voltage range is probably the same as the Atari.

[supercat]

An inline solution might be best... a small project box which plugs into the computer/console, then plug paddles into it.

 

You could maybe even design a switchable version so that a joystick could plug into it as well.

 

Whether using an inline version or one that installs in the paddles themselves, it would be necessary to rewire the paddles themselves.

 

Putting the mod entirely within the paddles would have the advantage that things would 'look' nice.

 

Putting the mod outside the paddles would have two advantages:

 

-1- The amount of circuitry would be reduced because some components would be shared.

 

-2- It would be easy to add a DB9 male to allow a joystick to be plugged in simultaneously.

 

I'm leaning toward making a little board with a DB9 male and DB9 female. Next question: would people rather have the paddles hardwared to such a board, or would it be nicer to use some form of four-pin connector? If so, what form?

[supercat]

Does this solution work on 2600, 800, and the C-64?

 

The 2600 paddles work by discharging a capacitor, then charging the cap toward five volts through the paddle resistance and timing how long it takes to reach a certain fixed threshhold. The proposed circuit would work by charging the cap slowly until it reaches a threshhold set by the paddle, and then charging it quickly after that. Conceptually, the circuit should be workable on other machines, but a few component values would probably be optimized for best performance with the 2600's paddle circuitry. If used on other machines, the paddles may not work reliably through their whole range unless other modifications were made.

[bjk7382]

Why not find a source for new potnetiometers? Seems like you could get them somewhere so that they would fit like the original and last way longer because they are new (and built better nowdays) And they would still be original.

 

And how is your circuit going to let power pass reliably through the dirt and grime that is on the original paddles contacts inside the pot?

[hepcat]

I'd mail you a set of my paddles for this modification for a reasonable price.

 

--Jason

[godzillajoe]

Yeah me too, I'm lazy about taking stuff apart and I would probably ruin them anyway so if you want to charge me to fix my paddles forever, I would pay for the service.

 

I don't care if it's not "original" as long as they work and there aren't wires and crap hanging off of them.

[supercat]

And how is your circuit going to let power pass reliably through the dirt and grime that is on the original paddles contacts inside the pot?

 

Glad you asked that. A dirty potentiometer will generally behave like a clean potentiometer with except for the existence of a randomly varying resistance between the wiper's point of contact and the wiper terminal. In a resistance-measurement configuration such as the 2600 uses, this random varying wiper resistance will cause the measured value to wander all over the place. Using the potentiometer as a voltage divider, however, overcomes this problem.

 

Basically, the idea is that you put some fixed voltage at one end of the pot and ground the other. If no significant amount of current is pushed into or pulled out of the wiper, it will take on the voltage of whatever part of the resistance element it's closest to. On a typical grungy pot, the added series resistance can often be from 100K-500K. Since the full-scale resistance of the pot is 1,000K, that causes a lot of jitter. Using a pot in voltage-divider mode, however, wiper resistance becomes a non-factor. Using a JFET-based op-amp, circuit behavior will be pretty much the same whether the wiper resistance is 1 ohm or 10 million ohms. So even if the wiper resistance varies randomly over a range so much it would render the normal measurement circuit unusable, it won't affect the divider-based circuit at all.

 

As for the reason for using the circuit instead of a replacement pot, the goal is to be a permanent fix. Clean or replace the pots, and they'll get jittery again. Use the magic circuits, however, and no matter how dirty they get, they'll still work.

[supercat]

I'd mail you a set of my paddles for this modification for a reasonable price.

 

I have no interest in providng such a service myself. But if I come up with a good design I'd be more than happy to make it available to anyone who does want to provide it.

[bjk7382]

As for the reason for using the circuit instead of a replacement pot, the goal is to be a permanent fix. Clean or replace the pots, and they'll get jittery again. Use the magic circuits, however, and no matter how dirty they get, they'll still work.

Your idea sounds good in theory. But for me, compatibility with other machines would be a must. As well as being compatible with all 2600 paddle games, with no noticeable effects of a different circuit. If you could get that worked out, then it might go somewhere.

 

And the more reading I do about modern potentiometers the more I think they would be reliable in the long run. The OEM ones used have lasted for 15-20 years. So there is no reason why a modern counterpart wouldn't last twice that long. And in 40 years I don't think I will be playing kaboom anymore.

[spikey911]

As for the reason for using the circuit instead of a replacement pot, the goal is to be a permanent fix. Clean or replace the pots, and they'll get jittery again. Use the magic circuits, however, and no matter how dirty they get, they'll still work.

Your idea sounds good in theory. But for me, compatibility with other machines would be a must. As well as being compatible with all 2600 paddle games, with no noticeable effects of a different circuit. If you could get that worked out, then it might go somewhere.

 

And the more reading I do about modern potentiometers the more I think they would be reliable in the long run. The OEM ones used have lasted for 15-20 years. So there is no reason why a modern counterpart wouldn't last twice that long. And in 40 years I don't think I will be playing kaboom anymore.

 

 

 

Hehe.... I hope I make it 40 more years... So far family history is 70 - 71, so if I can live 40 more years I will break the record!

[D.Yancey]

I still think it's a great idea. I'd like to have all the components inside the paddles themselves.

[Paranoid]

It sounds interesting to me. I'd love to have some reliable paddles.

 

And cleaning them is a hit and miss proposition. It is invasive, it isn't very easy to get them really clean, and in my experience, you're still likely to have SOMEWHAT jittery paddles when you're done.

 

Cleaning 5200 sticks is far easier than cleaning the 2600 paddles.

[A.J. Franzman]

Why not find a source for new potnetiometers? Seems like you could get them somewhere so that they would fit like the original and last way longer because they are new (and built better nowdays) And they would still be original.

The form factor of the 2600 paddle controller potentiometer is obsolete. If you wanted to have some made, perhaps for a minimum order of 10,000 pieces or so, you could find a company to do the job.

[A.J. Franzman]

I love this!!!!! I think I would prefer the first mod and keep the same plug on the paddles. Will you be doing these mods for a service charge and selling the circuit boards? People could send you a set of paddles and you could spruce 'em up. Maybe Franzman would be interested in this too?! I might even be able to play Kaboom! for real.

Thanks for the vote of confidence! I think I might be interested in trying the first version for myself. I have an idea of how to do it but I'd like to see supercat's parts list and schematic. I'm not so sure about the second version - it sounds like it would require cutting the plug off of a paddle pair and putting a box with the new circuit in its place. Even though the possibility of a joystick pass-through port in this configuration would offer some added convenience, I don't like the idea of hacking up paddles like this. I'm not even sure there would be much, if any, of a savings vs. 2 separate in-the-controller circuits.

[bjk7382]

And cleaning them is a hit and miss proposition. It is invasive, it isn't very easy to get them really clean, and in my experience, you're still likely to have SOMEWHAT jittery paddles when you're done.

I don't want to get into the whole paddle cleaning debate, but if they are cleaned right (by taking the potentiometer apart) and electrolytic grease is put back in they will be jitter free and work for a long time. (instead of grease, I use a product called teflon gel lube from radio shack, which I use on the contacts of electromechanical pinball machines also)

 

I would like to see the results of this mod though. It sounds promising if it has good compatibility among the games.

[Godzilla]

yea as long it works with all the paddle games, id be all aboot this. an external plug-throough piece would be the easiest, I think.

[Bryan]

Another idea...

 

Atari used high quality 1W sealed pots in their arcade games. Why not just swap with those?

 

-Bry

[Albert]

I personally would prefer to see the mod fit entirely inside the paddle, so that's what gets my vote. I often have paddle games to demo at shows and I usually have to clean some paddles before the show. And even then they aren't perfectly dejittered. If a mod such as this came along, that would be great.

 

Another idea...

 

Atari used high quality 1W sealed pots in their arcade games. Why not just swap with those?

Are they the same form factor? Are they still available? Would a simple swap be sufficient?

 

..Al

[A.J. Franzman]

yea as long it works with all the paddle games, id be all aboot this. an external plug-throough piece would be the easiest, I think.

The fix supercat is proposing REQUIRES the controllers to be rewired; there is no simple plug-in solution.

 

The two variations he proposed are only different in how many circuit components are used and whether any external changes are made - the method to leave the controllers externally intact needs more electronic components to be added; the method which involves rewiring the plug end of the cables allows saving a few components but will probably end up costing more overall (and will definitely be more work to build).

Edited June 16, 2006 by A.J. Franzman

[D.Yancey]

Git 'er dun.