Atari 64? Commodore 800?

[cbmeeks]

Hope I am in the right area.

 

If you were designing an 8-bit computer and you could take 2 items from any number of 8-bits out there, what would you grab?

 

No more than 2 features though...however, I admit, some are common so they don't count (like 64k is common)

 

Mine, would be:

 

(standard)

 

1) 64k ram

2) cartridge port/printer port/serial/etc

 

 

From the C=64, I would grab:

 

1) Sprites

2) SID

 

From the Atari I would grab:

 

1) DLI....love the control!

2) 4 joystick ports from the 800/400

 

From the Apple I would grab:

 

1) 80 column text card

2) Open bus system

 

hmmm...tired. That's all I can think of...that would be one sweet computer!

 

now, what would we call it?

 

cbmeeks

[Heaven/TQA]

from c64 i would take

 

1) sprites

2) colour ram

 

from a800

 

1) antic

2) sio

 

from spectrum

 

1) rubber keyboard ()

[Rybags]

BBC Model B: Built in DOS (even though it was optional)

 

Apple II: Open hardware architecture (about the only good thing about that machine IMO)

 

Atari XL: Colour capability, open architecture OS

 

C-64: Sprites, colour RAM (used as index into Atari-like palette)

 

VIC-20: Marketing + affordability (not really an attribute of the machine)

[emkay]

Amstrad

 

1)Floppy Interface

2)Monitor Interface

 

 

800

 

1)ANTIC

2)POKEY

 

 

Lynx

 

1)CPU

2)3D chip

 

 

MSX

 

1)Sound

2)Sprites

 

 

C64

1)Marketing

2)external analogue sound filters

 

Sinclair

 

1)status

2)price

Edited June 19, 2006 by emkay

[+FujiSkunk]

Lynx

 

1)CPU

2)3D chip

 

Wasn't the Lynx's graphics chip 16-bit?

 

I think I would mostly keep the C-64 as is, but I would combine it with the Apple II's expansion slots, and make the 16-color palette user-definable from a larger palette (which I guess throws in a Lynx feature; oh well).

[+FujiSkunk]

Lynx

 

1)CPU

2)3D chip

 

Wasn't the Lynx's graphics chip 16-bit?

 

Only allowing two features is rather limiting. My ideal machine would keep the C-64 pretty much as is, but with the Apple II's expansion slots and with the Lynx's ability to customize the color palette from a much larger selection.

[+davidcalgary29]

65XEM: AMY

[emkay]

Wasn't the Lynx's graphics chip 16-bit?

 

 

What exactly is a 16 bit chip?

 

The 6502 adresses 65536 registers. This is only possible by a 16bit adress-bus.

 

The machines are commonly named 8-bit because the cpu does 8 bit operations.

If you name the Lynx's graphics chip 16-bit, you have to name the SID 16 bit, too. Because it does 16 bit operations.

[+doctorclu]

100% Atari 800.

 

Apple II computer to hold up my monitor.

Commodore 64 for a foot rest.

 

There's my 8-bit setup.

[TMR]

Commodore 64:

Sprites (simply because they're big, easy to move and have a good horizontal resolution).

SID.

 

Commodore 264 series:

121 colour palette with attribute-based system (over 80 colours a scanline from BASIC).

Writeable raster register.

 

Commodore 128

64K VDC display.

Hardware smooth scroll (good way to get the C64's scrolling without using it as a C64 point, eh? =-)

 

Atari 8-bit series

Palette.

CPU clock speed.

 

Amstrad CPC series

Palette-based bitmap mode (but since we've taken the Atari's palette already, with sixteen registers, each 8 bits wide).

Screen origin point offsetting.

 

Commodore PET series

IEEE disk drives.

Bodyshell design.

[cbmeeks]

Wasn't the Lynx's graphics chip 16-bit?

 

 

What exactly is a 16 bit chip?

 

The 6502 adresses 65536 registers. This is only possible by a 16bit adress-bus.

 

The machines are commonly named 8-bit because the cpu does 8 bit operations.

If you name the Lynx's graphics chip 16-bit, you have to name the SID 16 bit, too. Because it does 16 bit operations.

 

 

16-bit chip refers to the data bus not the address bus.

 

The SID, 6502, etc can only access 8-bits at a time. True, it can scan from 65,536 locations, but only 8 bits at a time.

 

Hence, 8-bit.

 

16-bit machines (like the Amiga) can access 16 bits at a time.

 

cbmeeks

Edited June 20, 2006 by cbmeeks

[Allas]

Commodore 64:

Sprites (simply because they're big, easy to move and have a good horizontal resolution).

SID.

 

Commodore 128

64K VDC display.

Hardware smooth scroll (good way to get the C64's scrolling without using it as a C64 point, eh? =-)

 

 

Technically, what is the better mode to design games, c64 or c128 ? (sorry for the out of topic)

[Fröhn]

Technically, what is the better mode to design games, c64 or c128 ? (sorry for the out of topic)

C64, because more tools and good assemblers exist for it. Also all those cartridges which have fastloader, machine language monitor and all sorts of other tools are all for C64 mode.

 

Oh and taking stuff from 8 Bits:

 

Atari 8 Bit:

Writable screen pointer

128 color palette

 

C64:

Sprites

SID

 

Plus/4:

Attribute colors (could be taken from C64 aswell, but only two allowed per platform, hehe)

Smooth scrolling (again: could be taken from C64...)

 

C128:

2 MHz register

Moveable zeropage/stack

 

Nothing I would take from CPC or Spectrum

Edited June 20, 2006 by Fröhn

[TMR]

Technically, what is the better mode to design games, c64 or c128 ? (sorry for the out of topic)

 

There's not much in it; the C128 obviously has more RAM and there are some new video registers including $D030 (which toggles 2MHz mode on) but the VIC-II and SID used are the same as the C64 so the only differences are the fast mode of the CPU (which disables the 40 column screen since the VIC-II isn't designed to clock at that speed), the 640x200 pixel 16 colour VDC display with it's dedicated RAM (16K on some models, 64K on others) and independent output (the C128 had dual monitor support! =-) and, if BASIC is an issue, there's a major improvement in C128 mode.

 

2MHz mode can be used on a C128 in C64 mode too, Andrew Braybrook's later games switch it on and off during the upper and lower border if they detect a C128 at startup and use the extra CPU power to move more stuff around.

[Heaven/TQA]

TMR....

 

why dont you want ANTIC? only the palette?

[emkay]

16-bit chip refers to the data bus not the address bus.

 

I know. But there are real 8 bit cpu's around. With 8bit Adress - and Data - Bus. Intel built CPU's with real 16 bit....

And Motorola built the 16/32 CPU's (as named within the ST label)...

ATARI named the Jaguar the first 64 bit machine cause the only thing in it was a 64 bit wide adress-bus.

 

The SID, 6502, etc can only access 8-bits at a time. True, it can scan from 65,536 locations, but only 8 bits at a time.

 

Hence, 8-bit.

 

Vice versa, the SID can be adressed with 8 bits, because the CPU can only set 8 bit registers. But inside the chip, 2 of them are combined... remembering "16 Bit channels".

That's the cause for my comparision.

[emkay]

TMR....

 

why dont you want ANTIC? only the palette?

 

Psst... Antic isn't the chip for the palette

[Heaven/TQA]

klar... he chooses the atari palette over the Antic...

[Atari-Jess]

100% Atari 800.

 

Apple II computer to hold up my monitor.

Commodore 64 for a foot rest.

 

There's my 8-bit setup.

 

I used an apple IIc as a mousepad for years.

[Fröhn]

100% Atari 800.

Apple II computer to hold up my monitor.

Commodore 64 for a foot rest.

I used an apple IIc as a mousepad for years.

And Speccy as doorstopper ofcourse

[TMR]

TMR....

 

why dont you want ANTIC? only the palette?

 

Because i prefer the way the Commodore kit handles the screen.

[Wrathchild]

Go for keyboard handling as per C64 as the A8,

i.e. control over the hardware to scan keys, rather than

the A8's last key pressed sort of thing.

 

But Console keys or Function Keys? The A8 win this.

[Allas]

C64

- SID

- Color bitmap (mix hires and med res)

- Sprites

 

Atari XL/XE

- Warm boot

- Booteable disk drive

- ANTIC

- Palette colors

- Console keys

- Scalable and compatible system

 

Spectrum

- Hi res color games

[cas]

Go for keyboard handling as per C64 as the A8,

i.e. control over the hardware to scan keys, rather than

the A8's last key pressed sort of thing.

 

But Console keys or Function Keys? The A8 win this.

 

The A8 give you the choice, either scan the keycode from pokey, or use the value provided from the OS.

 

KBDCODE (53769/$D209) Scancode of currently pressed key

CH (764 / $2FC) Shadow Register of KBDCODE, gets updated every VBI (or Keyboard/Pokey IRQ, im not sure)

 

both location return an internal Pokey keycode. The ATASCII Code can be requested from the K: handler, or you can use the lookup table in the OS.

 

Or do I get something wrong? I'm not so familiar with the C64, and how things work there,

 

Carsten

[+doctorclu]

100% Atari 800.

Apple II computer to hold up my monitor.

Commodore 64 for a foot rest.

I used an apple IIc as a mousepad for years.

And Speccy as doorstopper ofcourse

 

LOL! And though 16 bit, I've used the Mac Plus' as a step stool from time to time.