Is Pitfall Harry the Mario of the 2600?

[Rom Hunter]

There's no question about it: Pitfall II - Lost Caverns was inspired by Raiders.

 

But what about Pitfall!?

 

Let's hear what David Crane has to say about this:

 

"I sat down with a blank sheet of paper and drew a stick figure in the centre. I said, 'Okay, I have a little running man and let's put him on a path' (two more lines drawn on the paper). 'Where is the path? Let's put it in a jungle' (draw some trees). 'Why is he running?' (draw treasures to collect, enemies to avoid, etc). And Pitfall! was born. This entire process took about ten minutes. About 1,000 hours of programming later, the game was complete."

 

This was in 1982.

 

Raiders was released in 1981.

 

Perhaps Crane was subconsciously influenced by Raiders, but you'll have to ask him that to know this for sure.

 

Edited August 4, 2006 by Rom Hunter

[+Random Terrain]

Hey look! I'm going to procrastinate some more!

 

HINT: just because someone doesn't agree about the strength of a specific connection between two tangentally related things in popculture, doesn't mean they're lacking in "slippery" thinking skills.

It wasn't about you not agreeing with me about how much a movie and a high-quality (but lacking) video game were connected. From the quote below (with the important part in bold), it seemed like you might have a problem with rigid thinking that is slightly similar to mine:

 

"I sometimes used games in playacting with some of my frieinds, Star Wars, and "Jr. A-Team" (yeah yeah I know) and what not, but each universe was...well, it's own universe. Only in games with minimal graphics could I really do a crossover like that."

 

 

You came up with this inane insult about "nerd street cred" for a minor typo or point of grammar. . .

So you consider "you're in danger of getting your Atari nerd license revoked. That's Yars' Revenge not Yar's Revenge " an insult? Similar to what I said to the other guy, if you think that was an insult then you have never been insulted. My dictionary says that an insult is a "rude expression intended to offend or hurt." There was no intention to offend or hurt. It was a quick jokey nudge.

 

 

. . . then rip into my labor-of-love game when I use it as a jokey kind of defense.

I wouldn't call your comment an attack per se, but I think you were being a bit of an ass.

You don't see what I said as jokey, but you think this is:

 

"Hey, with a homebrew 2600 game under my belt, I don't think it's going to be revoked because of some little grammar error."

 

It seemed more snooty than jokey, so I said what I thought about the game in a joking way since it looked like you puffed up your feathers a bit. I didn't bring up your game, you did. I have made some pretty bad experiments and games over the years, so I'm not saying I'm better than you in any way. There's no way I could ever create an Atari 2600 game the hard way. It's just that I think your game is not fun and it's not up to the standards of a Lady Bug or similar high-quality game. That doesn't make you a bad person and it doesn't make me an ass for not liking it and saying so when you bring it up as a lame shield. If you make a high-quality Atari 2600 game that I think is fun, I'll play it and I might even buy it just like I plan to buy Lady Bug if I have the money when it becomes available.

 

 

When you don't tell people what you really think, you are not being kind. People cannot change and grow if all they get are insincere niceties.

I disagree. You shouldn't think that you're doing some kind of public service by being an ass online, some sort of Johnny Appleseed of human growth and change.

 

People can disagree in more polite ways, and it creates more light than heat that way.

I moved beyond disagreements with that statement though. It's a general statement. A game tester that doesn't report all of the mistakes he finds because he wants to be nice to the programmers is not being kind. If your girlfriend has toilet paper stuck to her shoe or part of her dress is stuck down her pantyhose, you better speak up. If you make a game and I think it sucks, I'll tell you that it sucks and try to describe what I don't like about it if I can. If you're the kind that will cry and talk about all of the hard work you put into it, it won't matter to me. If the game sucks, it sucks no matter how hard it was to make. I only care if a game is fun and meets a certain standard of excellence. I hope you'll do the same for me if I ever get any games made. If you think my game sucks, feel free to tell me. You don't need to butter me up or pat me on the head.

 

 

Which is why I didn't say: YAR'S vs YARS'? Are you F'in KIDDING me? Yeah, I guess compared to you, I am but a pale shadow of your majesty as you struggle to the throne King of All Anal Retentive Poorly-Socialized Grammar-Nazi Nerds....

You keep bringing up the Yar thing as if it hit a sore spot. Did an English teacher molest you when you were a kid? Did your parents beat you if you didn't spell things right? What's the big deal? Can't you take a jokey nudge? People are always poking me with a stick or even trying to rip me a new a-hole. Now that I am taking Chlorella and a vitamin B complex, I am usually less sensitive and less venomous. I'll still get in an argument once in a while but it usually won't get as nasty as it used to, so although you may think I was arguing with you, I wasn't trying to and I wasn't angry with you or anyone else and I'm still not. Besides the nudges, I was just trying to make sure that my position was as clear as it could be. As you can see, I'm not the greatest writer, so it can take me longer to get my point across.

 

 

Well, you know. it's a metaphor. It's a way of expressing a sincere sense of irritation with a request to stop accusing others of lacking creativity because they don't think the way you do on this subject.

You guys keep acting like I was trying to force you to think the way others did. I wasn't doing that, I was just trying to explain how many people seemed to think back then. How they could see a connection between Pitfall! and Raiders of the Lost Ark.

 

I also didn't accuse you of lacking creativity because you don't think the way I do. Here's your quote again with the important part in bold:

 

"I sometimes used games in playacting with some of my frieinds, Star Wars, and "Jr. A-Team" (yeah yeah I know) and what not, but each universe was...well, it's own universe. Only in games with minimal graphics could I really do a crossover like that."

 

As I said near the start of this post, it seemed like you might have a problem with rigid thinking that is slightly similar to mine. It seems many programmers are cursed with rigid thinking in certain areas. Some find it difficult to 'switch gears.' Others cannot seem to grasp simple concepts. Some cannot see the potential of an idea unless it is broken down for them as if they were two years old. Some programmers lack creativity when it comes to programming. They will say that something can't be done, but then some guy will come along and do it because he didn't know it couldn't be done.

 

After reading various books on creativity over the years, my thinking is less rigid than it use to be, but I still have a long way to go. If I could only liquefy Roger von Oech and inject the juice directly into my brain, I could do something that I'm not creative enough to think of at this moment.

 

 

If I ever want to get anything done, I'm going to have to stop visiting this thread. If you have something important to say to me, please PM me. My 'chores' are starting to look a little less boring after all of this posting.

[kisrael]

HINT: just because someone doesn't agree about the strength of a specific connection between two tangentally related things in popculture, doesn't mean they're lacking in "slippery" thinking skills.

It wasn't about you not agreeing with me about how much a movie and a high-quality (but lacking) video game were connected. From the quote below (with the important part in bold), it seemed like you might have a problem with rigid thinking that is slightly similar to mine:

"I sometimes used games in playacting with some of my frieinds, Star Wars, and "Jr. A-Team" (yeah yeah I know) and what not, but each universe was...well, it's own universe. Only in games with minimal graphics could I really do a crossover like that."

I see what you're getting at but I think it's over-reaching.

You came up with this inane insult about "nerd street cred" for a minor typo or point of grammar. . .

So you consider "you're in danger of getting your Atari nerd license revoked. That's Yars' Revenge not Yar's Revenge " an insult? Similar to what I said to the other guy, if you think that was an insult then you have never been insulted. My dictionary says that an insult is a "rude expression intended to offend or hurt." There was no intention to offend or hurt. It was a quick jokey nudge.

Ok, we're way into the overanalyzing stage, but:: it seemed a short bit away from "you're not a real fan", or what have you, in a way a mere correction wouldn't have.

You don't see what I said as jokey, but you think this is:

 

"Hey, with a homebrew 2600 game under my belt, I don't think it's going to be revoked because of some little grammar error."

 

It seemed more snooty than jokey, so I said what I thought about the game in a joking way since it looked like you puffed up your feathers a bit. I didn't bring up your game, you did.

Well, like I said, your comment put me in a defensive "nerd street cred" stance. In fact, in the years since JoustPong, when I describe making an Atari game (admittedly this was before batariBasic lowered the bar) I said it was to "enhance my geek street cred", which, by coincidence, seems tangentally related to "nerd license", which might be why I was quicker to go to it.

 

I have made some pretty bad experiments and games over the years, so I'm not saying I'm better than you in any way. There's no way I could ever create an Atari 2600 game the hard way. It's just that I think your game is not fun and it's not up to the standards of a Lady Bug or similar high-quality game.

So, overall the game isn't up to a static playfield demo? Thanks. (Or are there more recent .bin files that do something?)

 

It wasn't as *ambitious* as some 2600 games, but I think a solid game, and with polish: title screen, title music, no flicker, the "poorlords" variant, strong but not perfect AI, the binary perfect Pterry sound effect, the flashing score, the tweaked physics, and then later a professional bit of cart art and manual. In terms of gameplay, it's a bit of a one trick pony (well, 3 tricks, after I added Pterry, and the thing with the walls) but have you played it much against other people? That's where I think it shines. And why I was actually pretty insulted by "sucks all the fun out of Pong"... it's definately less of a game than Joust, but IMO is stronger than Pong.

 

People can disagree in more polite ways, and it creates more light than heat that way.

I moved beyond disagreements with that statement though. It's a general statement. A game tester that doesn't report all of the mistakes he finds because he wants to be nice to the programmers is not being kind.

NEWSFLASH: you aren't the thread's beta tester. If Yars' to Yar's was a particular grip of yours, note the correction without being too cute, or at least cute in a way that challenges the poster's "true fan"dom.

 

If your girlfriend has toilet paper stuck to her shoe or part of her dress is stuck down her pantyhose, you better speak up. If you make a game and I think it sucks, I'll tell you that it sucks and try to describe what I don't like about it if I can. If you're the kind that will cry and talk about all of the hard work you put into it, it won't matter to me. If the game sucks, it sucks no matter how hard it was to make. I only care if a game is fun and meets a certain standard of excellence.

Which is why I gave a defense based on my (biased) opinion of the quality of the game, not the work I put into it.

I hope you'll do the same for me if I ever get any games made. If you think my game sucks, feel free to tell me. You don't need to butter me up or pat me on the head.

Ok, how about other fields: like: you're understanding of psychology is very weak, and your assumption that uninvited correction is welcome is laughable (actually I've learned that lesson the hard way. Some people are fine with it, others, especially a subset of women, *really* dislike. Since despite this "thinskinnedness" these are some terrific people and I don't want to hurt them, I've learned to try and be conservative) and that everyone wants to hear unmitigated criticism of their games just like you do is retarded. This is why, on say the batariBASIC boards, we don't rip into some of the crap that's thrown up there, and when we do criticize (especially if the person is pushing to make a not-ready-for-primetime game into a cart) we couch it carefully.

Which is why I didn't say: YAR'S vs YARS'? Are you F'in KIDDING me? Yeah, I guess compared to you, I am but a pale shadow of your majesty as you struggle to the throne King of All Anal Retentive Poorly-Socialized Grammar-Nazi Nerds....

You keep bringing up the Yar thing as if it hit a sore spot. Did an English teacher molest you when you were a kid?

Nobody likes a typo- or grammar-nazi, but I don't care so much about that, it was (quite possibly an over-)reaction to your colorful choice of "nerd license".

Well, you know. it's a metaphor. It's a way of expressing a sincere sense of irritation with a request to stop accusing others of lacking creativity because they don't think the way you do on this subject.

You guys keep acting like I was trying to force you to think the way others did. I wasn't doing that, I was just trying to explain how many people seemed to think back then. How they could see a connection between Pitfall! and Raiders of the Lost Ark.

 

I also didn't accuse you of lacking creativity because you don't think the way I do. Here's your quote again with the important part in bold:

 

"I sometimes used games in playacting with some of my frieinds, Star Wars, and "Jr. A-Team" (yeah yeah I know) and what not, but each universe was...well, it's own universe. Only in games with minimal graphics could I really do a crossover like that."

 

As I said near the start of this post, it seemed like you might have a problem with rigid thinking that is slightly similar to mine.

As I've said before, I think you might be over-generalizing. At any rate, extending from that into "problem with rigid thinking" and then "creativity constipation" is a bit aggresive, even if you mean it in a "helpful" way.

 

Random thought, since you're not going to read this anyway...

An amusingly (to me anyway) arrogant response combining both the "Yar's" issue and my homebrew-related-defense...

"GEE, I GUESS I MISSED MY CHANCE TO BRING UP THE WHOLE YAR'S/YARS' THING WITH HOWARD SCOTT WARSHAW WHEN I WAS SITTING WITH HIM AT THE PHILLY CLASSIC ATARI AGE BOOTH AND WE WERE BOTH SELLING OUR RESPECTIVE GAMES. NYAH."

[Rom Hunter]

LOL

 

Earth calling Duane and Kirk:

 

Let's get back to the topic, please.

 

[kisrael]

Heh, good point.

 

It's funny that lately consoles haven't been mascot-driven either; I think there might be something "special" about the NES/SNES eras, that level of semi-cartoonish, semi-iconic representation that lent itself to that kind of character design, and the *reuse* that seems fairly important for a mascot to become established.

 

Actually, looking at 1up's Bestest Worser Ads from the 90s, it seems like half of 'em where trying to introduce some new mascot-y character.

 

Another theory: with Sony's rise, "first party" become less important for everyone but Nintendo.