David Crane Vs Shigeru Myamato

[pocketmego]

I started this to finally settle this once and for all. My choice is easy. Crane made a system incapable of much, do things its creators never dreamed were possible. He created the first true Video Game character and the first multi-screened side scroller.

 

Myamato created the first platformer game. Then he took Pitfall, made it easier and added defensive weapons to it and called it Super Mario Brothers.

 

Then he took Adventure added characters and ideas from the Tom Cruise movie legend and created Zelda.

 

Obviously the most important creator between these two can only be David Crane.

 

Incidently, was Myamato a programmer or did he just design game ideas and get other people to program them? I always here he designed games and drew for them, but I never hear of him as a programmer.

 

-Ray

Edited August 2, 2006 by pocketmego

[Room 34]

So, taking your logic to its extreme, the caveman that first rolled a round rock down a hill deserves more recognition than Henry Ford?

 

(Sorry... this is an excessive exaggeration. But I don't think Miyamoto's contribution is as derivative as you apparently do.)

[shadow460]

One's not really above the other, though. If they both sat down to dine, I bet they'd see each other as colleagues, not competitors.

 

David's accomplishments were mentioned a couple of posts back. Now he did a lot more, including making the first multi screen home game, adding practically a whole system on a chip insdie the cart, etc. Without Pitfall 2 and the DPC chip, would Star Fox have ever been dreamt up with its onboard processor? Dare we call the DPC a processor? (I say yes).

 

But what David's accomplishments lacked, Shigeru's added. We have Pitfall Harry, with little personality. Now, in the future, we have Link, who we can know and love, while still bouncing around in a cart!

We now also have a game that people are going to love, and one that needed a backup option like the er'as computer games had. That created a demand for console RPG's. One little company in that time was facing bankruptcy and decided to go out with a bang and pour the last of their resources into a console RPG.

Without David Crane, perhaps adding extra hardware into a cart or stretching a system's abilities might not have been appreciated at all.

Without Shigeru Miyamoto, there might not have been demand for the extra technology.

David Crane was not the only one to create and use additional hardware for the 2600. Look at Dennis Caswell. He did the same kind of stuff, only not as much of it.

 

Now I'm not going to say that either one of them is a bad game designer or a detriment. I think that it's unfair to try and judge the two against each other, though.

I've spent countless hours in front of both of their games. I can tell you that anything with the Crane or Miyamoto name on it is going to be a lot of fun to play.

[pmpddytim]

David Crane created a body, Shigeru Miyamoto gave it a soul.

 

-Tim

[shadow460]

Yes, exactly.

[Jess Ragan]

David Crane created a body, Shigeru Miyamoto gave it a soul.

 

-Tim

 

Beautifully stated.

 

The problem with David Crane, as I see it, is that he was a superstar in the 2600 era who either couldn't adapt to the NES age, or ran out of gas before it arrived. The only noteworthy game he released after 1987 was A Boy And His Blob. Some people liked the game, but it lacked the polish players had come to expect from the NES, with characters and backgrounds that looked like they would be more at home on the Atari 7800. It's clear from this game that Crane's style of design just couldn't evolve along with the industry.

 

Not to add too much fuel to the fire, but by the original poster's logic, you could also say that Will Wright owes all his success to David Crane as well, since David created Little Computer People (the predecessor to The Sims as well as countless other virtual pet sims).

 

JR

[pocketmego]

David Crane created a body, Shigeru Miyamoto gave it a soul.

 

-Tim

 

Beautifully stated.

 

The problem with David Crane, as I see it, is that he was a superstar in the 2600 era who either couldn't adapt to the NES age, or ran out of gas before it arrived. The only noteworthy game he released after 1987 was A Boy And His Blob. Some people liked the game, but it lacked the polish players had come to expect from the NES, with characters and backgrounds that looked like they would be more at home on the Atari 7800. It's clear from this game that Crane's style of design just couldn't evolve along with the industry.

 

Not to add too much fuel to the fire, but by the original poster's logic, you could also say that Will Wright owes all his success to David Crane as well, since David created Little Computer People (the predecessor to The Sims as well as countless other virtual pet sims).

 

JR

 

 

Actually, yes i do believe that Will Wright owes his career to Crane. The first thing I thought when I saw the SIMS was Little Computer People. Now, please don't get me wrong, I should more accurately say Will Wright owes his current status and celebrity partially to Crane. The other part is all him, because Sim City was and always will be brilliant.

 

I admit, i was being exagerated a little mean towards Myamoto, but only to make the point that I am really tired of this particular marketing ploy by Nintendo. Yes, the man was utterly brilliant and deserves every iota of credit he gets.

 

But, Nintendo has had thousands of brilliant creators over the years and not one of them recieve the recognition of this one man.

 

Hell, there biggest success story right now is the DS which is based on the Gameboy and game and Watches before it, all created by the same man. Do we hear much about him? NO.

 

Getting back on topic, the fact is that most of the concepts still used in gamming today were engineered by Crane first and people seem willing to let his name fade into history while Myamoto, talented though he may be, is immortalized for simply improving that which already existed.

 

-Ray

[2600Lives]

Gunpei Yokoi may not get the recognition from the CONSUMERS that Miyamoto does, but he certainly gained his fair share of respect within the industry itself. Miyamoto is very much the public face of Nintendo. He's an affable guy who gets along well with the public. That's one of the reasons he gets so much attention. Sure, he is beyond brilliant with game and console design, no doubt, but he is simply the public face of the company.

 

As for Crane, I always thought that the tennis game he made for the SNES was really underrated (and I LOATHE most sports games, but this was one of the few to really make me want to play more of it). And sure, A Boy and His Blob LOOKED outdated, but the design behind it was pure genius, and NO other game has really duplicated the feel of it. Crane simply evolved in a time before, when graphics HAD to take a back seat to gameplay because of hardware limitations, though I still marvel at the graphical achievements of Robot Tank.

[figgler]

What's Crane's big claim to fame these days? What's put him on the map in the last 15 years? Oh wait. Nothing.

 

I like some of Crane's games, notably Pitfall and the Blob series, but his time is long done whereas Miyamoto still makes games that deserve notice

[n8littlefield]

Shiggy gets the Nintendo spotlight not only because he is absolutely brilliant, but also because he encapsulates everything Nintendo stands for. He puts the games first and is always willing to try something new. And truthfully, he is a very charismatic person to put on stage. When you see him on stage grinning from ear to ear about a new Zelda or Pikmin game it's hard not to smile with him. He is genuinely excited about gaming and it carries so well publicly that Nintendo would be foolish not to capitalize on it. I would argue there are a lot of people out there that get labelled "Nintendo Fanboys" that are probably more "Shiggy Fanboys" and would follow his creations to any company he worked for.

 

While I recognize what Crane did for the industry - as an overall portfolio of work stands, he can't compare to Shiggy.

[+kisrael]

Yeah, I got a throw my lot in with Miyamoto here, especially when I heard about how stuff like SMB was influenced by his exploring as a child, the idea that there could be a mystical world out there, through that little cave, and that a lot of his games are trying to offer insight into that little world...

[thomasholzer]

Oh come on, you just had a simular thread here already, time to let go.

 

David Crane goes above Miyamoto for co-founding a whole new company, not only that, but the FIRST 3rd party gaming company ever. Miyamoto could never do that, he was just hired as an employee to create a coin-up after Nintendos disaster with Radarscope. So he looked at the first ever platform game, Space Panic (1980), running along platforms, up and down ladders, bashing enemies, and he did Donkey Kong (1981).

[Trip_Cannon]

Didn't David Crane base Pitfall off of Donkey Kong?

[+kisrael]

Oh come on, you just had a simular thread here already, time to let go.

 

David Crane goes above Miyamoto for co-founding a whole new company, not only that, but the FIRST 3rd party gaming company ever. Miyamoto could never do that, he was just hired as an employee to create a coin-up after Nintendos disaster with Radarscope. So he looked at the first ever platform game, Space Panic (1980), running along platforms, up and down ladders, bashing enemies, and he did Donkey Kong (1981).

Sounds like Crane was one of 3 programmers and a record exec guy who made a company.

 

But that's a business move, not about gaming.

 

So Space Panic didn't even have jumping? just FLAT platforms and ladders? And no character design worth a damn? And how about the music.

 

No, you're not going to cut the legs out from Donkey Kong so easily.

[Dusk2600]

myamato might go jin-su on david crane's ass, unless pitfall harry jumps in.

[Cybergoth]

Hell, there biggest success story right now is the DS which is based on the Gameboy and game and Watches before it, all created by the same man. Do we hear much about him? NO.

 

Actually the guy you are talking about here, Gunpei Yokoi, left Nintendo in shame after creating an incredible flop known as the Virtual Boy. Main reason that you don't hear much about him today, might be that he died almost a decade ago already.

[Malc74]

What is the POINT in starting 3 separate threads about this subject? Are you David Crane's mum or something?

[+kisrael]

Hell, there biggest success story right now is the DS which is based on the Gameboy and game and Watches before it, all created by the same man. Do we hear much about him? NO.

Actually the guy you are talking about here, Gunpei Yokoi, left Nintendo in shame after creating an incredible flop known as the Virtual Boy. Main reason that you don't hear much about him today, might be that he died almost a decade ago already.

I suspect some of that shame is kind of a "Japanese thing"... sometimes to make big successes you have to take big risks and they're not all going to have to pay out.

 

Wii is a risk in a similar way, though not quite as much of one. But it's nice that Nintendo is willing to take risks while the other guys are playing "the same, but better"

[Dusk2600]

might be that he died almost a decade ago already.

 

yeah he got into an accident and when he got out of his car he got clipped by a car and was killed from what i can remember

 

rip

[8th lutz]

Gunpei Yokoi is indeed forgotten, part of it is caused by his death for almost 9 years. While he was famous for Game boy and being infamous for the Virtual Boy along with game and watch series. He is underated or forgotton for creating Metroid, Kid Icarus, and Fire Emblem along with helping Miyamoto in his arcade games like Donkey Kong. Yokoi and his team also developed games for game boy like Super Mario Land. Part of the reason, there was a long time for waiting for a new Metroid title was because of Yokoi leaving nintendo or the better was to put it was forced out by nintendo for the virtual Boy.

 

Miyamoto didn't want to touch the Metroid Franchise for a while after Yokoi's death. Miyamoto is a bit overated due to being helped by Yoki for the arcade games Miyamoto did before 1984 with Yokoi being the producer. Yokoi was great on the gameside also. You have give Miyamoto and Yokoi the same amount of credit for arcade games like Donkey Kong.

 

 

Miyamoto is great and is better then Crane. Crane didn't changed with the times and he is forgotton due to the fact after Absolute was gone, Crane was also in a way. Crane games after the crash for the most part aren't well known. Miyamoto stayed type of his game for a way longer time. I look at this as I do with racing for who is the great Driver all time. Miyamoto made n64 sales with games along with rare. Without Miyamoto woriking on games on the n64, the n64 would be lucky to sell half the systems it did world wide.

 

Crane while was great for time and I fell he was with the 2600, but his games freeway and pitfall came out about the same time or in the same year the arcade games Frogger, and Jungle King king makes it difficult for people to say it Cane was copying the arcade games or he wasn't.

 

Crane being one of the founders of Activision shouldn't count as an arguement against Miyamoto. Activision had experienced game programmers for doing games for the 2600 before activision was created and already know bankswitching along with everything that was available for progaming for the 2600 at time. With all the former Atari programmers at Activision how is all pointed to david Crane when it should be pointed at Other programers and founders of Activision. If it was David crane as the only founder then it would be a huge valid point.

[pocketmego]

What is the POINT in starting 3 separate threads about this subject? Are you David Crane's mum or something?

 

Actually, in response to another person in the other thread, this one was supposed to be a POLL. But, I screwed up and didn't make the poll work right. By the time I tried to fix it (it actually posted twice and with no poll), people had already started responding to it. So I do apologize if it seems like I over posted this topic, which is not un-true. Not usually the way I do things. promise.

 

-Ray

[JB]

might be that he died almost a decade ago already.

 

yeah he got into an accident and when he got out of his car he got clipped by a car and was killed from what i can remember

 

rip

As I understand it he was a bystander.

He pulled over to see if he could help and got slammed.

 

He didn't even get to see the WonderSwan launch.

[mos6507]

I bet Miyamoto hasn't touched line of code in many years, so he's not really filling the same role anymore. The same goes for anyone who is singly credited for "creating" a game these days (Will Wright, Sid Meier, etc...).

 

I remember when Eugene Jarvis told me about his own epiphany in the mid 80s when he realized he couldn't just paint day-glo pixels on top of a black background anymore. He realized he had to change with the times, learn to work in a larger creative team, and so on. As the teams got bigger, the amount of coding they do is diminished and it becomes more supervisory.

 

Videogame pioneers just can't remain 'developers' in today's world. They have to move into a managerial capacity. Even David Crane is doing that at Skyworks, at a micro-level. To go from being the lone hacker making a game from start to finish to being the "game auteur" almost like a big movie director is not a transition that you would expect everyone from the classic era to be able to make, and even if they could, the opportunities to do that were few and far between, especially when you consider the crash and the inexorable cultural shift to Japan in the console business.

Edited August 3, 2006 by mos6507

[pocketmego]

I bet Miyamoto hasn't touched line of code in many years, so he's not really filling the same role anymore. The same goes for anyone who is singly credited for "creating" a game these days (Will Wright, Sid Meier, etc...).

 

I remember when Eugene Jarvis told me about his own epiphany in the mid 80s when he realized he couldn't just paint day-glo pixels on top of a black background anymore. He realized he had to change with the times, learn to work in a larger creative team, and so on. As the teams got bigger, the amount of coding they do is diminished and it becomes more supervisory.

 

Videogame pioneers just can't remain 'developers' in today's world. They have to move into a managerial capacity. Even David Crane is doing that at Skyworks, at a micro-level. To go from being the lone hacker making a game from start to finish to being the "game auteur" almost like a big movie director is not a transition that you would expect everyone from the classic era to be able to make, and even if they could, the opportunities to do that were few and far between, especially when you consider the crash and the inexorable cultural shift to Japan in the console business.

 

You make an EXTREMELY interesting point, Mos.

 

I often bemoan the loss of the single coder games, replaced by these high end big budget monsters. But, it never occured to me that it most certainly affected the coders themselves ina variety of ways.

 

In many ways warshaw was a made genius when it came to his Atari games, especially his original ideas. Where, in the world, does a guy like that go when his industry falls apart and gets completely re-structured?

 

The sae with Tim Skelly and the brilliant single coders at Ocean and Palace software. Those poor guys must have suddenly found themselves in very strange circumstances, especially the ones that never saw things like the crash or evolution of team created games coming.

 

-Ray

[thomasholzer]

Imagine if Activision would have had lost the lawsuit against Atari. No 3rd party software support in the USA. This would have looked very bleak for Nintendo and the NES (which relied on 3rd party software support).