pirx Posted August 2, 2006 Share Posted August 2, 2006 Just few pics of F7 accelerator by Pasiu/SSG made by Krap during Glucholazy party. http://krap.pl/galery/glucholazy-2k6/CRW_8246 http://krap.pl/galery/glucholazy-2k6/CRW_8247 http://krap.pl/galery/glucholazy-2k6/CRW_8248 http://krap.pl/galery/glucholazy-2k6/CRW_8249 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunstar Posted August 2, 2006 Share Posted August 2, 2006 (edited) From the first picture, It is hard to tell how this accelerator is to be plugged into an XE/XL. Will this board have to be unplugged to use the computer in normal 8-bit mode? Or will you be able to choose from a switch, or menu or something which you use; standard 6502 computer or 65c816? Is it an internal board or external? What's the "Sally" interface for? How about at least a brief description instead of just pictures? Edited August 2, 2006 by Gunstar Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drac030 Posted August 2, 2006 Share Posted August 2, 2006 (edited) The board is external. This is how it gets plugged into the computer (via CART/ECI or PBI connector, missing on pictures posted by pirx): http://krap.pl/galery/glucholazy-2k6/CRW_7955 It is possible to select the "normal" mode and generally to configure the card (MMU etc.) in software. The "Sally interface" is something that plugs into the Atari motherboard at the place where there is 6502 normally. It provides the 6502 processor for standard mode and a set of signals going to the card, which are missing at the ECI/CART/PBI connector. Edited August 2, 2006 by drac030 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunstar Posted August 2, 2006 Share Posted August 2, 2006 Thanks! you've answered all my questions! Except one; will the Sally interface fit under the metal shielding of the XL/XE motherboards? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunstar Posted August 2, 2006 Share Posted August 2, 2006 Actually, a few more questions just popped into my head. Concerning the ECI/PBI and the use of such items as the CSS Blackbox and/or MIO boards. Will the 65c816 board allow to do away with such items by supporting HD scsi or ide drives on it's own? It looks like an IDE port on the accelerator board, but I want to know for sure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Almost Rice Posted August 3, 2006 Share Posted August 3, 2006 It looks like an IDE port on the accelerator board, but I want to know for sure. I thought it was the header for the cable to the PBI. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danwinslow Posted August 3, 2006 Share Posted August 3, 2006 Where do I buy one. Or nine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tempest Posted August 3, 2006 Share Posted August 3, 2006 What are the applications for this? I'm curious. Tempest Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rybags Posted August 3, 2006 Share Posted August 3, 2006 Applications? Software fine scrolling of hires, 40+ C-64 style sprites, multiple whole palette reloads per scanline just for starters. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pirx Posted August 3, 2006 Author Share Posted August 3, 2006 (edited) What are the applications for this? I'm curious. Available now: The most important is OS: http://drac030.krap.pl/en-specyfikacja.php Then comes MultiBasic. and some other utils: http://drac030.krap.pl/en-pliki.php, see '65c816 ATARI' section. All thanks to Drac030 Edited August 3, 2006 by pirx Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cas Posted August 3, 2006 Share Posted August 3, 2006 What are the applications for this? I'm curious. Available now: The most important is OS: http://drac030.krap.pl/en-specyfikacja.php Then comes MultiBasic. and some other utils: http://drac030.krap.pl/en-pliki.php, see '65c816 ATARI' section. All thanks to Drac030 I really like the new OS description. It would be nice if the Memory Handler could be backported to a normal 6502 Atari XL/XE, solving the "missing Memory Manager" problem in the OS. I also like the new SIO stuff in there. I know that Stefan Dorndorn (Q-MEG, DOS II+/D) is also writing a new OS to support Harddrives. It would be nice if the 65816 OS extensions become kind of standard, so that software development for new 6502 Ataris and 65816 Ataris is possible without hassle. What is the license of the extensions/new ROM? Commercial, "closed but free" or Open Source? Best regards Carsten Strotmann Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drac030 Posted August 3, 2006 Share Posted August 3, 2006 will the Sally interface fit under the metal shielding of the XL/XE motherboards? Good question. This is what I don't know. It may fit, though, it is not particularly big. Just a socket, a small PCB and the CPU. Actually, a few more questions just popped into my head. Concerning the ECI/PBI and the use of such items as the CSS Blackbox and/or MIO boards. Will the 65c816 board allow to do away with such items by supporting HD scsi or ide drives on it's own? It looks like an IDE port on the accelerator board, but I want to know for sure. The board itself does not contain an IDE interface, it is however compatible with the IDEa interface, which can be connected to the ECI/PBI plug you can see on one of the pictures. If there is a version of the connector, which allows to simultaneously attach another PBI device, I don't know, but I'll ask the author about it - as this is surely an important question. I think anyways, that it is not a question of the board itselt, but rather of the ECI/PBI connector. BTW. the "ISA-like" slot on the turbo board is really not an ISA, it is a proprietary connector containing all the vital signals for the system. It is planned that a card will be developed for that slot containing a fast IDE interface (fast, i.e. operating at 14 MHz). As about "applications", even old software may take an advantage of this board. For example, the Lucasfilm's "EIDOLON" is said (I wasn't there at that part of the presentation) to render the animation much faster generating more frames per second, and thus being better What is the license of the extensions/new ROM? Commercial, "closed but free" or Open Source? For now, "closed but free". Open Source would f.e. require to transfer the sources to a cross-assembler, setup a form of CVS, and move the development to a PC, which I really wouldn't like. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drac030 Posted August 3, 2006 Share Posted August 3, 2006 I got an answer regarding "old" (i.e. existing) PBI devices: the card allows to use everything that plugs into the computer using PBI connector. Devices, which plug via CART/ECI connector require an additional adapter, which is not yet designed. Carsten (I missed this previously in your post): the memory handler can only allocate and deallocate the "high" memory, ie. the one found past the $00FFFF. Considering that all existing programs ignore any memory pointers, and most DOS-es also blindly load data to the memory no matter what is in it, I decided, that memory allocator for the first 64k would be useless. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danwinslow Posted August 3, 2006 Share Posted August 3, 2006 That makes sense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cas Posted August 3, 2006 Share Posted August 3, 2006 Carsten (I missed this previously in your post): the memory handler can only allocate and deallocate the "high" memory, ie. the one found past the $00FFFF. Considering that all existing programs ignore any memory pointers, and most DOS-es also blindly load data to the memory no matter what is in it, I decided, that memory allocator for the first 64k would be useless. Yes, thats true, But having an standard interface for extended memory (130 XE PORTB type extensions) that would be compatible with your MMU would be nice. Carsten Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drac030 Posted August 3, 2006 Share Posted August 3, 2006 Hmm, maintaining compatibility between banked and directly addressable memory would be rather difficult. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Allan Posted August 3, 2006 Share Posted August 3, 2006 I got an answer regarding "old" (i.e. existing) PBI devices: the card allows to use everything that plugs into the computer using PBI connector. Devices, which plug via CART/ECI connector require an additional adapter, which is not yet designed. Is this adapter the same as this? http://www.atariage.com/forums/index.php?s...c=88968&hl= Allan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danwinslow Posted August 4, 2006 Share Posted August 4, 2006 Hmm, maintaining compatibility between banked and directly addressable memory would be rather difficult. Could you have a mode that emulates the banked memory...in other words use the lowest 64-256k ( directly addressable ) for instance as RAM banks when not in 85c816 mode. It's likely I am not making sense, so I will probably be quiet now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drac030 Posted August 4, 2006 Share Posted August 4, 2006 (edited) Is this adapter the same as this? Probably not. This is a "PBI device to XE computer" adapter. Such devices, according to the author, don't need any adapters to be connected to the turbo board. Only these devices, which plug directly into the XE CART/ECI connector would need one (a "CART/ECI device to XL computer" adapter). Could you have a mode that emulates the banked memory...in other words use the lowest 64-256k ( directly addressable ) for instance as RAM banks when not in 85c816 mode. It's likely I am not making sense, so I will probably be quiet now. AFAIK, the turbo board's memory can't be banked. This is done so that the turbo board has own memory and the computer has own memory (the one which is available normally, when no turbo board is connected). It can be decided via appropriate registers, what memory will be visible in the address space as the first 64k: whether it will be the Atari's memory or the turbo board's memory. But (AFAIK) this only applies to the base 64k, not to the 130XE banked RAM. However, these are hardware configuration details, and this is basically not what my memory manager does - it is hardware independent. It simply maintains information about what parts of the memory are allocated for a program and what parts are not. In particular, no memory configuration (banking, changing MMU state etc.) takes place in the process. The memory manager identifies blocks of memory by their addresses, and it is assumed that a program which did malloc() can immediately use the returned pointer to access the memory. So I doubt if it would be easy to adapt this concept to 130XE banked RAM, most of which shares the same addresses, and also bank switching is required to get an access to the particular area. Edited August 4, 2006 by drac030 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nachocientos Posted August 6, 2006 Share Posted August 6, 2006 impressive pictures Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tezz Posted March 16, 2007 Share Posted March 16, 2007 (edited) It's been a while since I read an update about the f7 so I thought I'd bump this thread...... Are there any new developments with the F7 accelerator hardware that Pasiu was developing? Is it possible to buy this now? and if so, what's the cost? I've been reading the software side of things that Drac has been working hard on with the new OS with interest I intend to get right back into the swing of things, picking up where I left off with the game and other coding that my job and "life" stuff stopped me in my tracks with 18 months ago. I'm very much interested in coding for the 816 too when I get free time back again in a few months. I would REALLY like to buy one of these accelerators with full switchable 6502C compatability like yesterday. Regards, Tezz Edited March 16, 2007 by Tezz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunstar Posted March 17, 2007 Share Posted March 17, 2007 (edited) I have another question that has occured to me while reading about the "memory map" above. Will this new board and it's memory conflict with other memory upgrades? I have a 1200XL with 512K now, and I know I wouldn't need that memory while using the board, since the board has it's own, but would it conflict with the board while using the board and vice-versa when in normal 6502 mode? This is an important question, especially under the circumstances that most of your market are exactly the type of people who already have their computers upgraded(like me). You can't assume that your making the board to install in stock 64k computers (or 128k). Not to mention other upgrades many of us have like OS upgrades, Warp 32-in-1 and others. Edited March 17, 2007 by Gunstar Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tezz Posted March 17, 2007 Share Posted March 17, 2007 I have another question that has occured to me while reading about the "memory map" above. Will this new board and it's memory conflict with other memory upgrades? I have a 1200XL with 512K now, and I know I wouldn't need that memory while using the board, since the board has it's own, but would it conflict with the board while using the board and vice-versa when in normal 6502 mode? This is an important question, especially under the circumstances that most of your market are exactly the type of people who already have their computers upgraded(like me). You can't assume that your making the board to install in stock 64k computers (or 128k). Not to mention other upgrades many of us have like OS upgrades, Warp 32-in-1 and others.Yes, this is one of the important questions that concerned me too. I know that other 816 projects in past development did have mem conflicts which would definately like you said prevent exactly the people that would want this from using their other upgrades. Another project a few years back http://www.myatari.net/issues/jun2001/8_16.htm discussed this briefly in that article.... I was also wondering about the 32-in-1 os replacement, Drac has been developing the 816 os, could this be added to warp? so 33-in-1 ..... I hope to hear some more technical details and progress about this acelerator. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drac030 Posted March 17, 2007 Share Posted March 17, 2007 Tezz: the software is being written and as it is done, the board is being debugged. It for example turned over, that the on-board RTC is inaccessible. The author is fixing such minor flaws now, apart of it the unit I have works very good. I have no idea, when it will be available to get, at what price etc. - these are things the author should be asked about. Gunstar: the turbo board is an external device, it only plugs into the Atari expansion port and into the motherboard as said above. There is no reason why it should not be compatible with existing RAM upgrades. Basically, as you said, the turbo board has its own memory, and Atari has its own memory (possibly expanded the standard way). These areas remain separate. There is an operating mode of the board, that sort-of replaces the 64k of Atari memory with the board's memory. This works so that a part of the turbo board memory effectively works as a write-through cache for the first 64k of Atari address space. But, this applies only to *main* 64k of Atari memory. Any expansions (like additional 64k in 130XE banks) won't be cached, so accesses will be slow (still averagely 20% faster than without the board, it has to be said). ROM upgrades are not a problem either, the boards has its own separate ROM, but normally it boots off the Atari ROM, whatever is in the computer. There are three modes, you can select with a switch in which mode the board should "wake up" when powered up: "Normal" - this is like the Warp4 board, the memory that resides in the first 64k ("old", i.e. Atari memory, main RAM, ROM, BASIC, RAM banks etc.) is slow (1,77/1,79 MHz), everything else operates at full speed. In this mode the board boots off the Atari ROM. "Fast" - similarly, the board boots the Atari ROM, but the first 64k memory is cached. This needs special OS (like mine) to operate best, as the OS has to configure the onboard MMU at startup. "Software" - this is identical to the "Fast" mode, except that the board's internal ROM is booted. A very nice and powerful device, generally. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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