2nd Arcade machine, original...

[desiv]

Hi. My first cab was a Tempest cab but it had been converted to JAMMA with a game called Toki.

 

I got a Tempest marquis and new Tempest side art, but I made it a MAME box. A lot of work to get original Tempest stuff back in there, probably not worth it.

 

But, tonight I picked up my 2nd arcade game. And it's original.

 

Pole Position! (Well, the Marquis says Pole Position II, I only saw it run briefly.)

 

It had a bad fuse, but the owner had a friend come buy while I was headed down and they had wrapped the fuse in Tin Foil to show me it worked.

 

Thanx, now TURN IT OFF! :-) So I picked it up. Not bad shape too.

 

They said the fuse blows from time to time, so I'll have to check that out. But it was playing Pole Position (or II) when I got it.

 

Just got it unloaded and in my garage. I'll get a new fuse tomorrow and see.

 

It had a 250V/20A fuse. That seems a bit huge to me... It has a book, but not a repair manual, so I might check around.

 

I'll post a pic or so when I get a chance.

 

One of my favorites!!!

 

Found it on Craigslist!

 

desiv

 

Update: It looks like Pole Position II, for sure. The design of the case matches and I seem to remember seeing a track selection screen.

Also, apparently Pole Position is known for having power and fuse problems. Someone on an active Atari newsgroup mentioned Atari sending out a recommendation to go with a 25 Amp fuse, and I believe they recommended replacing the fuse clip with an auto fuse holder. I'm seeing if I can verify that first.

Edited August 3, 2006 by desiv

[tta583]

Congrats on the game!!! Good call, IMHO, on the TURN IT OFF. I am sure it was blowing fuses for a reason!! Anyway, I have not worked on an Atari yet but have a PP myself in the wings to be worked on some day so I try to read when I can on the topic. Check this out, it discusses the very thing you are asking about in terms of the fuse replacement:

 

http://forums.webmagic.com/ubbthreads/show...true#Post333922

 

 

I would also suggest you get a component kit and rework the Audio/Regulator boards as those seem to be a weak point that end up overworking the supply and, thus, taking out the bank of fuses.

 

http://www.therealbobroberts.net/parts.html#atari

 

 

I would make sure to pop off the edge connector on the main board and look for burns and tarnish. The one I have it pretty toasty which, as expected, rolled back and overworked and damaged the AR boards.

[desiv]

Thanx for the info....

 

After the third read, that is almost starting to make sense.

 

Yeah, I finally got into it last night to look at it, and the whole power/fuse assembly unit (not sure if that's the power supply, or just part of it) was unscrewed from the bottom of the case (screws and screwdriver were loose in the case too), so I am guessing the previous owner (I got it from his wife after they had split) was (wanting to) work on it. Weird thing is that the fuse holder is labeled 25Amp Slow Blow. The guy had a 20 Amp in there. I'll have to get a 25 Amp Slow Blow and see if it blows.

 

It looks like there were alot of "Fixes" for Pole Position machines after they were released. Not sure how many apply to Pole Position II and not yet sure how many have been done on this guy. :-) I did notice a few wires not connected to anything hanging around. I hate that. :-) I'll have to see where they go..

 

One thing I read was something about looking for the battery (it stored high scores apparently) and make sure it's not leaking. I'll have to make that a top priority.

 

After I got all the loose metal (screws and screwdrivers, etc.) out of the case and screwed the power board back down, I did pop a 20A fuse in there (all I had last night) and powered it up. It came up, looked good (as far as I could tell in a few minutes) and powered it back off. So, it survived the trip.

 

Now to start cleaning it up a bit.

 

desiv

 

Congrats on the game!!! Good call, IMHO, on the TURN IT OFF. I am sure it was blowing fuses for a reason!! Anyway, I have not worked on an Atari yet but have a PP myself in the wings to be worked on some day so I try to read when I can on the topic. Check this out, it discusses the very thing you are asking about in terms of the fuse replacement:

 

http://forums.webmagic.com/ubbthreads/show...true#Post333922

 

 

I would also suggest you get a component kit and rework the Audio/Regulator boards as those seem to be a weak point that end up overworking the supply and, thus, taking out the bank of fuses.

 

http://www.therealbobroberts.net/parts.html#atari

 

 

I would make sure to pop off the edge connector on the main board and look for burns and tarnish. The one I have it pretty toasty which, as expected, rolled back and overworked and damaged the AR boards.

[tta583]

Sounds great, glad it helped!!

 

Couple of things. I could be WAY wrong here but I thought PP2 was a conversion on a PP1. I don’t know if there were every any dedicated PP2 machines. Even if they were it looks like both used the same board sets, and thus the same satellite boards such as the AR2 and probably same power supply. Hay, if you already had it working why re-engineer?? Looks like the games are 1 year apart so I bet that was not enough time to figure out that things failed and just might have benefited from a rework.

 

http://www.klov.com/game_detail.php?letter=&game_id=9064

 

What does that mean to you? Well, I would thing any PP fixes would apply. Given all my assumptions are correct. Again, I have one but have NO hand on as of yet.

 

Battery. I do know where that is. The ones I have seen are about the diameter of a AA and about 1.5 times as long as a AA. The ones I have seen are white and run parallel with one of the long sides of the main board. It is mounted right up to the edge.

 

As to the fuse. Humm. Seems like there is a LOT of fuse talk on the Atari games. My gut says it should not be a slow blow. A typical automotive fuse, as suggested in the "update" is not slow blow. Most slow blows I have seen are in monitors but I will admit my hands on is WAY limited. Not been at this long myself. The fuse holder could have just been something handy at the time someone needed to replace it thus the marking.

 

If you are going to dive in I would shoot Bob Roberts an e-mail (link from above to his site) and order his PS kit. You get a new Big Blue (that big capacitor in the bottom of the cab), a new rectifier for the PS as well as a correct fuse block. I am sure he can easily tell you what size fuse goes in there. I have no relation to Bob other than as a customer. He is a great guy, always informative, and his prices are hard to beat.

 

http://www.therealbobroberts.net/bigblue.html

[desiv]

Thanx again for the info.

 

Couple of things. I could be WAY wrong here but I thought PP2 was a conversion on a PP1. I don’t know if there were every any dedicated PP2 machines. Even if they were it looks like both used the same board sets, and thus the same satellite boards such as the AR2 and probably same power supply.

 

I found a website that shows a picture of a dedicated original Pole Position II from Syzygy magazine and it looks a bit different. I don't know that it ever made it into production that way. I think you're right, there might have been non-conversions PP2s, but I bet they were just Atari conversions with the same everything except the main board.

 

Battery. I do know where that is. The ones I have seen are about the diameter of a AA and about 1.5 times as long as a AA. The ones I have seen are white and run parallel with one of the long sides of the main board. It is mounted right up to the edge.

 

Well, I took out the board and looked at it quickly tonight. Saw the battery. It looks great. Don't know if it works, haven't tried getting a high score :-), but it looks VERY clean, no leaking I could see.

 

In fact, the board looks great. The connectors, that alot of people said could be burned (Some fixes were soldering +5 directly to the board, bypassing the connectors) look great. So far so good.

 

As to the fuse. Humm. Seems like there is a LOT of fuse talk on the Atari games. My gut says it should not be a slow blow. A typical automotive fuse, as suggested in the "update" is not slow blow. Most slow blows I have seen are in monitors but I will admit my hands on is WAY limited. Not been at this long myself. The fuse holder could have just been something handy at the time someone needed to replace it thus the marking.

 

I'll pick up a 250 25A tomorrow. I might pick up two if I can get em, one slo and one not. Then I'll start with the not. :-)

 

If you are going to dive in I would shoot Bob Roberts an e-mail (link from above to his site) and order his PS kit. You get a new Big Blue (that big capacitor in the bottom of the cab), a new rectifier for the PS as well as a correct fuse block. I am sure he can easily tell you what size fuse goes in there. I have no relation to Bob other than as a customer. He is a great guy, always informative, and his prices are hard to beat.

http://www.therealbobroberts.net/bigblue.html

 

I've heard nothing but good things about Bob Roberts, so thanks!

 

I do think my colors are a bit off, but it almost seems like it's more red on the right side of the screen and more purple on the left. Could be earth and a rotation/degausing issue. Or I might have to tweak the controls a bit.

The monitor is nice and bright tho, and I don't notice any screen burn. And it's the original brand of monitor, if not the original monitor. I'm a bit surprised. It looks like it wasn't used much, or someone took good care of it, or both.

 

I'm toying with the idea of sliding a PC in there to play multiple racing games (at least vertical standard res games with just a wheel, pedal and 2 spead shifter :-), but only if I can do it and easily switch back to the stock parts. It's just too nice having an original PPII.

 

Thanx again,

 

desiv

[bjk7382]

Not sure if this helps or not, but there is some good info about atari fuseholders Here

[desiv]

Not sure if this helps or not, but there is some good info about atari fuseholders Here

 

Thanx, here's my first pic btw...

 

I moved it into my garage and since then, I've had alot of trouble powering it up. It would come up to frozen garbled graphics usually. Sometimes, but not often, there'd be a "BAD RAM" code. But restart and eventually fine.

 

Other thing I did was to remove the board in the garage to look at it.

 

It powers up, eventually, but sometimes it takes several (up to 10) tries. Maybe I just got lucky earlier, I didn't turn it on very many times.

 

Maybe the connectors, which look very clean, didn't like to be unplugged. I have unplugged them and replugged them and same thing.

 

To be honest, it sounds now though like some of the reported problems people have had with Pole Position. I read alot about starting and restarting problems. So, it might just be the way this machine is.

 

I did read that putting in a switching power supply should help, although I'd like to verify before I try that.

 

I noticed this time that there is some bubble wrap inbetween the two boards. Is that usual? I assume it's for a spacer. I suppose it could be bad connections on the connectors.

 

There are also 3 wires that have been soldered into the other wires, but go nowhere. Just chopped off. Not sure what they are. I'll have to check the pinouts to see what wires they come from.

 

thanx again,

 

desiv

[desiv]

OK, after reading more and more on the power issues, I think I have the easiest test/solution.

 

There's apparently a Star Tech magazine article that describes a full switchout of the PSU, but someone else had a better idea. (Better meaning easier. :-)

 

He suggested removing the +5 from the molex connector that goes to the board. That way, you are still powering everything else with the Linear Power supply. And you can easily go back.

 

Then, you just use a switching PSU, and solder on 2 (of each) spade connectors to the +5 and the ground.

 

Then you attach those to each board. So, the boards are powered off of the new PSU.

 

There's a possiblity I have to do a "sense bypass" on the A/R boards first, but it didn't look like it. I'll have to read some more.

 

Of course, after I clean it up and check the wires and solder joints, I might not need to. Just thinking ahead.

Also, it would make it easier for later if I want to add a PC in there, but only if I can do that in an easily reversible way. There are several other racing games I would love to run in this cab. (OutRun comes to mind. And this cab has everything, except the brake. Interesting that the board supports a brake in Pole Position, since the sit down cab has a brake. And it looks like there's enough room by the gas pedal for a brake. I wouldn't consider that ruining an original PP2 cab. That's a long term project tho.)

 

just thinking out loud

 

desiv

[keilbaca]

Not sure if this helps or not, but there is some good info about atari fuseholders Here

 

Thanx, here's my first pic btw...

 

I moved it into my garage and since then, I've had alot of trouble powering it up. It would come up to frozen garbled graphics usually. Sometimes, but not often, there'd be a "BAD RAM" code. But restart and eventually fine.

 

Other thing I did was to remove the board in the garage to look at it.

 

It powers up, eventually, but sometimes it takes several (up to 10) tries. Maybe I just got lucky earlier, I didn't turn it on very many times.

 

Maybe the connectors, which look very clean, didn't like to be unplugged. I have unplugged them and replugged them and same thing.

 

To be honest, it sounds now though like some of the reported problems people have had with Pole Position. I read alot about starting and restarting problems. So, it might just be the way this machine is.

 

I did read that putting in a switching power supply should help, although I'd like to verify before I try that.

 

I noticed this time that there is some bubble wrap inbetween the two boards. Is that usual? I assume it's for a spacer. I suppose it could be bad connections on the connectors.

 

There are also 3 wires that have been soldered into the other wires, but go nowhere. Just chopped off. Not sure what they are. I'll have to check the pinouts to see what wires they come from.

 

thanx again,

 

desiv

 

Its in fantastic condition

 

Congrats!

[desiv]

Its in fantastic condition

 

Congrats!

 

Thanx, even the side art looks pretty clean.

 

And the main board, which is why I'm a bit confused about the recent problems getting it to start.

 

Moving it from my garage (attached, that's 30 feet and one 4" step up) couldn't have been harder on it than moving it to my house (60 miles and a trip into and out of the bed of my Baja).

 

I'd love to keep it as original as possible. I'll try cleaning the connections tomorrow, even though they look pretty clean to me now.

 

I'd consider testing the voltages to make sure they are good, but I can replace fuses and solder. I can read a multimeter, but I'm not totally sure what I'd be looking for.

 

I assume I'd be looking at the +5, but do I just look to see if it stays steady at +5? Do I look for steady amperage? I'm not totally sure if a linear PSU would look that much different from a switched. That's a bit more than the 'replacing resistors and fuses' I'm used to. :-) But it's a good place to start.

 

desiv

 

Update: I just cleaned the connectors to the PCBs and no change. But I started thinking. What if it needs to warm up?

The person I bought it from had it running for quite a while (maybe they had a bear starting it the first few times?) before I got it. I drove it home, but that wasn't too long a drive. I didn't start it till the next day, and that was fine. That had been a while, but maybe I was lucky. Tonight, I left it on a crashed screen for a few minutes. Then I restarted it. It got past the gibberish, almost started and crashed. I restarted, and it started, but crashed when I shifted. Then I restarted and it worked for several minutes. I even went into the test screen. Everything tested OK, and I found out how to clear the Hi scores, which, by the way, were working, so the battery is still good. OK, the clearing the hi-scores was an accident, but I know now! :-)

Edited August 7, 2006 by desiv

[bjk7382]

I would try to clean the pins on all the socketed chips. Inspect the fuse holders very carefully and make sure they are putting proper pressure on the fuses and they have good contact. Common sense tells me that if you moved it and started having more problems getting it to start that it is probably a very simple problem of bad connections somewhere (not just on the edge connector either) And by all means check the voltages. That is the only sure fire way to see if you've got the power that you need in the right places. I'm guessing that there is a problem on the power supply also since it is so common with these machines (I believe Bob Roberts sells rebuild kits for them with some upgraded parts)