NightSprinter Posted January 4, 2007 Author Share Posted January 4, 2007 Well, here's what I found so far, but keep in mind I honestly don't know much about this: Atari SC1435: Pin Function 1 Ground 2 Ground 3 Red 4 Green 5 Blue 6 N/C 7 N/C 8 H-Sync 9 V-Sync Commodore 1084DS: Pin Name Analog Mode Digital Mode 1 GND Ground Ground 2 GND Ground Ground 3 R Red Red 4 G Green Green 5 B Blue Blue 6 I n/c Intensity 7 CSYNS Composite Sync n/c 8 HSYNC n/c Horizontal Sync 9 VSYNC n/c Vertical Sync Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Mitch Posted January 4, 2007 Share Posted January 4, 2007 Well, here's what I found so far, but keep in mind I honestly don't know much about this: Atari SC1435: Pin Function 1 Ground 2 Ground 3 Red 4 Green 5 Blue 6 N/C 7 N/C 8 H-Sync 9 V-Sync Commodore 1084DS: Pin Name Analog Mode Digital Mode 1 GND Ground Ground 2 GND Ground Ground 3 R Red Red 4 G Green Green 5 B Blue Blue 6 I n/c Intensity 7 CSYNS Composite Sync n/c 8 HSYNC n/c Horizontal Sync 9 VSYNC n/c Vertical Sync Um, isn't that what I posted a couple messages ago... Mitch Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NightSprinter Posted January 4, 2007 Author Share Posted January 4, 2007 Told you I really didn't know much about this.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Mitch Posted January 4, 2007 Share Posted January 4, 2007 What's your general location, maybe you can find someone that lives near you that can help out with testing. Mitch Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NightSprinter Posted January 4, 2007 Author Share Posted January 4, 2007 Orlando, FL. (usually don't give this out, but definitely needs the help) I do thank you guys for the help you could provide at least. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NightSprinter Posted January 5, 2007 Author Share Posted January 5, 2007 I am wondering if it's the resistors that are causing the H-Sync and V-Sync issues. Because I barely insert the ST end of the cable into the computer, and I get a somewhat readable picture (though a LOT of buzzing from the monitor's speakers). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NightSprinter Posted January 8, 2007 Author Share Posted January 8, 2007 Well, given that you guys have said that the RGB connector on the SC1435 is the same as analog mode for the 1084S-D2 I'm probably going to go and order the SC1435 monitor cable from B&C ComputerVisions. But before that, can I have one last confirmation that such a cable would work? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Mitch Posted January 8, 2007 Share Posted January 8, 2007 Well, given that you guys have said that the RGB connector on the SC1435 is the same as analog mode for the 1084S-D2 I'm probably going to go and order the SC1435 monitor cable from B&C ComputerVisions. But before that, can I have one last confirmation that such a cable would work? Well, Remowilliams says yes; I say maybe, maybe not. If you just want someone to test the cable you've got, I'd be willing to help out but you'd have to mail it to California. Send me a PM if you're interested. Mitch Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+remowilliams Posted January 9, 2007 Share Posted January 9, 2007 Well, Remowilliams says yes; I say maybe, maybe not. If you just want someone to test the cable you've got, I'd be willing to help out but you'd have to mail it to California. Send me a PM if you're interested. I knew there was something nagging me in the back of my mind about C1084s and composite sync, and I remember now. I can tell you for a fact, that some 1084s do not accept composite sync properly in analog RGB mode. The way I found this out (since my Amiga and ST cables all route H/V sync separately) was by building a cable to connect my IIGS to the 1084s. The IIGS (as far as I could ever tell) only outputs composite sync. When I built the cable the display was all distorted and rolling, which didn't make sense since I knew I built the cable correctly. Trying it on another 1084, it did work. Out of the four 1084s I have, I believe only two will use the composite sync correctly. So, seeing how NightSprinter's cable is setup for CSYNC - this may very well be his problem as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NightSprinter Posted January 9, 2007 Author Share Posted January 9, 2007 Damn, Remo. Seems I was right about the C-Sync issue. I had the cable sent out to Mitch to look into. So from your experience, on my particular 1084S-D2 would H-Sync and V-Sync have to be connected seperately for analog mode? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NightSprinter Posted January 20, 2007 Author Share Posted January 20, 2007 Final update: I just got back my cable from Mitch after he seperated the H and V-Sync lines. The picture is completely stable now. It seems the D-series of the 1084S monitor line does not play well with seperated horizontal and vertical sync lines being combined. If I ever learn how to properly solder, and build my RGB cables for my Genesis and anything else that uses a DIN connector of some kind, I might have to keep this in mind. But aside from that: problem solved. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tjlazer Posted January 20, 2007 Share Posted January 20, 2007 Orlando, FL. (usually don't give this out, but definitely needs the help) Whats the big deal about giving out your location. Are you paranoid? If you plan to keep the ST just order a cable from best. Else just test it out with composite to your TV... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+remowilliams Posted January 20, 2007 Share Posted January 20, 2007 Final update: I just got back my cable from Mitch after he seperated the H and V-Sync lines. The picture is completely stable now. Glad to hear it! Good of Mitch to straighten that out for you I knew it had to be a problem with that cable being wired for CSYNC. Also note - it's not just the 'D' series 1084 that doesn't like CSYNC input. My all time favorite 1084x model the 1084S-P (Philips, and hands down the best!) does not like it either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NightSprinter Posted January 20, 2007 Author Share Posted January 20, 2007 So, would this problem be apparent for any system that I would want to wire a cable (or mod) for RGB-output? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+remowilliams Posted January 20, 2007 Share Posted January 20, 2007 (edited) So, would this problem be apparent for any system that I would want to wire a cable (or mod) for RGB-output? Well, anything (in RGB analog) you want to hook to that monitor of yours is going to need to be able to supply separate HSYNC/VSYNC signals. I'll add that modding older consoles, etc. for RBG is usually quite a hassle and is overkill. s-video is usually more than sufficient, and usually far easier to deal with. Edited January 20, 2007 by remowilliams Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Mitch Posted January 20, 2007 Share Posted January 20, 2007 You know, now that I think about it, I have heard about some of the old RGB monitors that had a weird C-Sync^H/V-Sync config. From what I remember the monitors themselves actually use C-Sync but they were configured internally with a resistor setup like NightSprinter had in his cable. I don't remember the Commodore 1084s being one of the ones mentioned but they could possibly be setup like that. I believe to get around it you had to hook up the C-Sync signal to either pin 8 or pin 9 (but not both) and it worked. Remo maybe you can test that on one of your 1084s and see if that works. Mitch Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Mitch Posted January 20, 2007 Share Posted January 20, 2007 Just did some looking through old Commodore monitor schematic scans and it looks like my memory wasn't so bad. The 1084 model with the 6 pin DIN use two 470 ohm resistors to bridge the sync signals. Actually, the 8 pin DIN digital circuit does this as well. I tried to look up the 9 pin D-Sub version but the pretty low res of the scan combined with the more complex connection (both analog and digital via a switch) meant I wasn't able to figure out much. I did see that pin 7 and pin 8 are connected. Which is why NightSprinter's monitor showed a rolling picture, it was apparently getting H-Sync but not V-Sync. Mitch Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NightSprinter Posted January 20, 2007 Author Share Posted January 20, 2007 Yeah, the big question is though what caused the horizontal scramble of the picture? Before you modified my cable when I somewhat stabilized the rolling everything was distorted towards the right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Mitch Posted January 21, 2007 Share Posted January 21, 2007 Yeah, the big question is though what caused the horizontal scramble of the picture? Before you modified my cable when I somewhat stabilized the rolling everything was distorted towards the right. Maybe it didn't like the extra signal being mixed in. I did some more staring at the schematics (bleh, getting a headache) and it looks like pin 7/8 are connected to pin 9 through a diode and a resistor. So, if I'm not mistaken, you should be able to get C-Sych from pin 9. Weird. Mitch Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+remowilliams Posted January 21, 2007 Share Posted January 21, 2007 I believe to get around it you had to hook up the C-Sync signal to either pin 8 or pin 9 (but not both) and it worked. Remo maybe you can test that on one of your 1084s and see if that works. I did some more staring at the schematics (bleh, getting a headache) and it looks like pin 7/8 are connected to pin 9 through a diode and a resistor. So, if I'm not mistaken, you should be able to get C-Sych from pin 9. Weird. Strange stuff Well, I could always try feeding CSYNC on 7, 8 or 9 and see what happens. Now I just need to find where I put that IIGS RGB cable, or go and get my JAMMA best test box and some arcade boards. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djpubba Posted October 18, 2007 Share Posted October 18, 2007 (edited) I've been trying to get a 1084DS to work with composite sync going in on pin 7 and had no luck. I googled around and found this thread talking about how some 1084's just don't take composite sync. I tried feeding it to pin 9, both pin 7 and 9, but nothing worked. So I took a look at the schematics and did some experimenting. I finally got it to work by doing a slight mod to my monitor. I put a jumper across pins 6 and 10 on the chip labeled I202 (a 74L506). After that, I put composite sync to both pins 7 and 9 on the 9 pin connector. That worked very well. Here's a picture of the jumper I made. I also have a Commodore 2002 monitor that does the same thing. I'm going to open that one next and have a look. Edited October 18, 2007 by djpubba Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tjlazer Posted October 19, 2007 Share Posted October 19, 2007 (edited) All Commodore monitors need this?? Edited October 19, 2007 by tjlazer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djpubba Posted October 19, 2007 Share Posted October 19, 2007 Unlikely. Just the ones that csync doesn't work on. I thought it was pretty bizarre that the 1084ds is supposed to accept csync but yet mine didn't. But then I saw people talking here about how some just don't like csync and decided to see if I could mod mine to work. I'm glad I did, because the 1084 is a great monitor for old game systems. I need to see if this makes the monitor not compatible with an Amiga afterwards, though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djpubba Posted October 20, 2007 Share Posted October 20, 2007 So I checked this modded 1084ds monitor with an Amiga to make sure it would still work and found another bizarrity. The Amiga's monitor cable which this worked with before the mod has only a single pin (7) for sync so it must be composite. So I'm not sure why composite sync from a non-Amiga source doesn't work without this mod, but composite from an Amiga works fine. Anywho, after modding, you have to feed the composite sync from the Amiga to both pins 7 and 9, but otherwise it still works fine. I just went ahead and jumpered 7 and 9 inside the monitor instead of messing with the cables (actually pins 7 and 8 are already jumpered so I just did 8 and 9). The Commodore 2002 monitor seems to be a completely different design. Not sure I can mod that one. I did find out it's nearly identical to a 1902 (but not 1902a), though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MacbthPSW Posted December 10, 2007 Share Posted December 10, 2007 I've just about got a trade lined up so I'll get my first ST: a 1040STf. I'm trying to figure out what to do about a monitor for it. I can potentially get a SC1224 from the same guy but I'm having a hard time finding something else to trade for it (what is a reasonable dollar amount for one, btw?) But since I have a large number of Commodore monitors already, I wonder if I'm better off getting the appropriate cable so I could use my 1084 or 1902A monitors. Otherwise I fear the one SC1224 dying and them I'm left with nothing again - a good cable should outlast any individual monitor. If I'm going to have a cable made, is http://www.best-electronics-ca.com/ still recommended? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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