If Donkey Kong had one more screen....

[godzillajoe]

....would it still be considered so bad?

 

I think what I find most annoying about it in recent gameplay is that it gets repetitive very quickly with only the two screens because you complete them so quickly

 

If they added the elevators screen (is there any reason this is impossible on a 2600, aside from RAM?) would it not be considered so bad for a VCS port?

[supercat]

If they added the elevators screen (is there any reason this is impossible on a 2600, aside from RAM?) would it not be considered so bad for a VCS port?

 

A bigger gameplay enhancement, IMHO, would be to add 30Hz flicker to the firefoxes and allow them to move vertically. Also add 30Hz flicker to barrels in later screens to allow them to be "packed" more closely. One of the things that made the arcade version hard was that two barrels could appear very close to each other horizontally so one would either need to (depending upon circumstances) either (1) jump them both with a very well-timed jump, or (2) jump between them and jump again, or (3) run for a ladder somewhere to get above them. A major strategic element completely missing from the 2600.

 

As for the rivet screen, the horizontal-only firefoxes are lame.

[godzillajoe]

OK yeah I know there are OTHER things that the game is missing but as far as the original question goes, what's your take on that?

 

Leaving everything else as it is, would it make a difference or do the other missing elements ruin it no matter what?

 

I mean, almost every 2600 port is missing something

[Christophero Sly]

I think that it's missing too many elements. Another level wouldn't necessarily change that, but if a reasonably decent elevator level were added to the game, I would consider it an improvement.

 

On the whole, like most of Coleco's games, I find DK to be more of a framework than an actual game. Sure, it bears some visual similarities to the arcade game and Mario can be moved around in his familiar patterns, but beyond that, it's missing most of the elements that actually make a game a game.

Edited August 10, 2006 by Christophero Sly

[Lord Thag]

Agreed! Having the elevator level, along with mixing the order up a bit like the arcade would take it from average to good status very quickly. Adding the 30hz flicker would make the game outstanding, I think.

[Vic George 2K3]

Would like to see somebody do it as a Flash game, though. At first.

[jboypacman]

A extra screen would help improve Donkey Kong.Making it a short o.k. game to a slightly longer good game.

[pocketmego]

A extra screen would help improve Donkey Kong.Making it a short o.k. game to a slightly longer good game.

 

 

I never got why it only had 2 levels anyway. DKjr had more than 2. That helped DKjr considerable and I think the addition of one more level would certainly help DK.

 

-Ray

[supercat]

I never got why it only had 2 levels anyway. DKjr had more than 2. That helped DKjr considerable and I think the addition of one more level would certainly help DK.

 

When Donkey Kong was released, an 8K cartridge would have cost considerably more to produce than a 4K cartridge. Managing to get DK, even such as it is, in 4K is a pretty good feat. Had Gary Kitchen been allowed to use 8K, he almost certainly would have done better.

[Lord Helmet]

If they added the elevators screen (is there any reason this is impossible on a 2600, aside from RAM?) would it not be considered so bad for a VCS port?

 

A bigger gameplay enhancement, IMHO, would be to add 30Hz flicker to the firefoxes and allow them to move vertically. Also add 30Hz flicker to barrels in later screens to allow them to be "packed" more closely. One of the things that made the arcade version hard was that two barrels could appear very close to each other horizontally so one would either need to (depending upon circumstances) either (1) jump them both with a very well-timed jump, or (2) jump between them and jump again, or (3) run for a ladder somewhere to get above them. A major strategic element completely missing from the 2600.

 

As for the rivet screen, the horizontal-only firefoxes are lame.

 

Agreed 100%

[NE146]

I'll tell you one simple thing that would have made DK 2600 better.. CLOSURE!

[NE146]

I'll tell you one simple thing that would have made DK 2600 better.. CLOSURE!

 

It didn't really bother me it only had 2 screens.. I actually expected that in VCS games even back then. However what really bugged me as a kid was you never were able to defeat Donkey Kong, which is kind of the whole point of the game.

 

I think it could have been done simply.. either by turning his image upside down, or even putting an "X" in his place whenever you cleared the rivets level. Heck, ANYTHING to show that "you won, time to start again".. As 2600 DK is, you're just running in circles and never getting the girl

Edited August 10, 2006 by NE146

[sandmountainslim]

Back when it came out I really thought the DK was a really good Atari game and now I am finding it is not quite as bad as I had came to believe it was.

It has no flicker to speak of and Mario moves good.

I would be happy with the two levels if the difficulty just ramped up a bit more. It is waaaaay too easy in my opinion.

WP

[dwh]

If it had the third screen, back in the day, it would have been 1/3 more crappier!

What the homebrewwers are doing nowdays is pretty awesome, and getting this game fixed would be great.Almost anything would be an improvement over the original.

[Zonie]

It's funny. This would be a perfect game for homebrew improvement, Space invaders and pac man have been done to death.

 

hint

 

 

 

hint

[godzillajoe]

If it had the third screen, back in the day, it would have been 1/3 more crappier!

What the homebrewwers are doing nowdays is pretty awesome, and getting this game fixed would be great.Almost anything would be an improvement over the original.

 

That's foolish

 

you have to keep it in perspective

 

What homebrewers are doing today has no bearing on what was happening in 1982 with marketing deadlines etc.

 

Take the best homebrew ever and tell that guy to finish it in a month in time for an X-Mas release and fit it in a 4k space and see what you get

Edited August 4, 2007 by godzillajoe

[Brian R.]

It's funny. This would be a perfect game for homebrew improvement, Space invaders and pac man have been done to death.

 

hint

 

 

 

hint

 

There's a couple hacks listed in the AA database, but they don't really go far enough to improving the game. It would be nice to see what one or more of our resident hack/homebrew artists could do to make a better Donkey Kong. I've got to think it can be done, given what we've seen done with PacMan.

[Rik]

This theory that Coleco purposely made their games bad for other systems,to make the CV look even more superior doesnt make sense to me.I mean if first time buyers(newbies) were to buy a Coleco game for their INTV,2600,ETC.and saw what for example 2600 ZAXXON was like,or DONKEY KONG,DONKEY KONG JR.wouldnt they have passed up on buying any more COLECO games?That my take on it,who knows,its probably true,i dont know.But i think 2600 DK is a pretty good game,could it have handled an elevator screen?dont know myself,im not tech savvey.Any knowledgeable AA guys here know for sure on these topics?Thanx

[Gregory DG]

Donkey Kong is only 4K. Imagine what could be done if some intrepid programmer rewrote it into a 32K game!

[supercat]

This theory that Coleco purposely made their games bad for other systems,to make the CV look even more superior doesnt make sense to me.

 

From a technical perspective, Donkey Kong on the 2600 is quite good. A non-symmetric 1lk playfield, with two 1lk sprites, one of which includes 1lk color, and to top it all off throw in a missle and the Ball.

 

The biggest problem with the game is that it's only a 4K cart. Had 0840 banking been invented a couple decades ago, Donkey Kong would have been a much better game.

[Nukey Shay]

I'll tell you one simple thing that would have made DK 2600 better.. CLOSURE!

 

It didn't really bother me it only had 2 screens.. I actually expected that in VCS games even back then. However what really bugged me as a kid was you never were able to defeat Donkey Kong, which is kind of the whole point of the game.

 

I think it could have been done simply.. either by turning his image upside down, or even putting an "X" in his place whenever you cleared the rivets level. Heck, ANYTHING to show that "you won, time to start again".. As 2600 DK is, you're just running in circles and never getting the girl

Disagree entirely, as that was not "the point" of arcade games back then. You'd never get the girl in arcade DK...why expect it in a home version??

 

 

 

If it had the third screen, back in the day, it would have been 1/3 more crappier!

What the homebrewwers are doing nowdays is pretty awesome, and getting this game fixed would be great.Almost anything would be an improvement over the original.

 

That's foolish

 

you have to keep it in perspective

 

What homebrewers are doing today has no bearing on what was happening in 1982 with marketing deadlines etc.

 

Take the best homebrew ever and tell that guy to finish it in a month in time for an X-Mas release and fit it in a 4k space and see what you get

Good point, as homebrewers are not under any time or production cost schedule...therefore, can devote as much time and resources as they choose to. Besides the fact that homebrewers have the advantage of knowing all sorts of "tricks" to save resources that might not have been so apparent to programmers back then. I dunno if bankswitching should be an option in that respect.

 

Donkey Kong was a good game. There was nothing wrong with how it performed. I'm not aware of anybody that took a shotgun to it way back when.

 

 

BTW among the most-requested games (so I was told) at the Chatterbox pub is Donkey Kong...along with Frogger (tops), Space Invaders, and ... (shock!) ... Pac-Man. Yes, that version!. Go figure, I guess.

[Inky]

The thing with DK was not that it was a bad game. It was just... unmemorable. One additional screen would have helped tremendously. Still wouldnt have been a great game, but it would have brought it up a notch.

 

 

 

Id like to see the mud factory scene added to it.

[NE146]

Disagree entirely, as that was not "the point" of arcade games back then. You'd never get the girl in arcade DK...why expect it in a home version??

 

Nukey.. dunno what you're talking about. Sure you did. Kong falls on his head.. so it shows you've "beaten" him, and also you stand there with the chick while a heart comes out while music plays. I don't know how much more an early 80's arcade game is going to tell you you've won and got the girl aside from that. Granted, you repeat the whole process after that, but that's the way it goes

 

I do think it's important to clarify, what I say above is what I thought of the game when I was a kid. So I was talking of the perspective coming from an arcade crazed 12 year old in the year 1982 playing Donkey Kong on a 2600/Colecovision. (which is how I generally talk about 2600 games).

 

Those games were close to state of the art that we could get cheaply at home, so really we hadn't seen games with endings too much. Of course now, the gameplay experience is really what counts obviously.. but we're a lot older & wiser . I do think what I said above though is still true though. 2600 DK has you going through the paces with zero reward. Just the facts man

[Godzilla]

The thing with DK was not that it was a bad game. It was just... unmemorable. One additional screen would have helped tremendously. Still wouldnt have been a great game, but it would have brought it up a notch.

 

 

 

Id like to see the mud factory scene added to it.

 

 

maybe it would have looked like this... in the right hands...

 

http://www.atariage.com/forums/index.php?s...;hl=donkey+kong

 

 

new light through old windows....

[supercat]

Donkey Kong was a good game. There was nothing wrong with how it performed. I'm not aware of anybody that took a shotgun to it way back when.

 

I wouldn't say "nothing wrong". Two things that come to mind immediately as being clearly "wrong" with it: (1) the lack of proper vertical movement when jumping; (2) the firefoxes' inability to move vertically. The former would have required a little more code; the latter would have required more code plus unobjectionable 30Hz flicker.

 

Retrospectively, unless the contract required it, I'd say including the hammer was probably a mistake. It doesn't add much to the barrel level, and adds practically nothing to the firefox level. Despite that, it's a huge code and RAM pig. If one were targeting a 30Hz flicker rate for barrels and firefoxes (in exchange for having more barrels and one or more vertically-mobile firefoxes) it may have been possible to use a player sprite to show the hammer at 30Hz flicker. Use vertical separation to protect it before the player grabs it (ensure only one barrel or firefox will share the line) and then flicker the player at 30Hz after he grabs it.

 

Too late now, though.