The Man Called YAK!

[pocketmego]

In the 2600 forum we were discussing Empire Strikes back and of course jeff Minter's name came up.

 

It appears that most of the man's success is based on...shall we say liberal homages of previous games mostly by Atari and Midway.

 

Andes Attack, his first, is a pretty obvious clone of Defender, although it's more than a bit weak. though this is mostly do to him writing it on the Vic 20.

 

His first real success, ESPECIALLY in the US is Gridrunner. This was released both on the Vic20 and the C64 and it is CLEARLY a high tech, and more frantic version of Centipede. Then came the infamous Attack of the Mutant Camels, based more than loosely on the VCS Empire Strikes Back Game.

 

Now, I personally like Yak's games. They are all very fast, frantic, and colorful. But, they do lack a LOT in terms of originality.

 

Now, my question to all of you is...

 

Should he be praised for his "improvments" on some of these classics, or should he be brought to task for some pretty obvious and blatant thefts?

 

-Ray

Edited August 23, 2006 by pocketmego

[Lord Thag]

I can't fault a guy who can take a good idea and make it perfection. Gridrunner, Attack of the Mutant Camels, Tempest 2000....

 

All of these are fantastic games. Tempest 2000 is on of the greatest games of all time, at least in my book. Minter is also kind of the last gasp of the original one man developers from the dawn of the computer age. Plus, he's funny and weird, which makes him something of an icon in the game development scene.

 

And if you are going to fault him for stealing, than almost every classic arcade and home game is guilty. Galaga and Galaxian and Gorf ripped off space invaders. Mario and a gazillion other platformers ripped off pitfall. Bard's Tale ripped off Wizardry. Every FPS ripped off Doom. The list is damn near endless. Minter didn't steal anything, he just took an established genre and did it right, the way Halo or Half Life excel as a FPS.

 

Just my two cents

[Clint Thompson]

Jeff Minter is a pimp. Anyone who can make a game as fun as Tempest 2000 deserves an A in my book! Easily one of the most played games I've ever had. (Though the 360s Neon Visualizer is about to exceed that and it's not even a game ).

 

I'm very fond of his other not-so-game-related stuff such as the Jaguar's VLM, Nuon's VLM2 and of course, the Xbox 360's Neon. I can't wait to see his new XBLA game come about.... very anxious for that one!

 

He should be praised for his improvements. (my opinion of course)

[pocketmego]

I can't fault a guy who can take a good idea and make it perfection. Gridrunner, Attack of the Mutant Camels, Tempest 2000....

 

All of these are fantastic games. Tempest 2000 is on of the greatest games of all time, at least in my book. Minter is also kind of the last gasp of the original one man developers from the dawn of the computer age. Plus, he's funny and weird, which makes him something of an icon in the game development scene.

 

And if you are going to fault him for stealing, than almost every classic arcade and home game is guilty. Galaga and Galaxian and Gorf ripped off space invaders. Mario and a gazillion other platformers ripped off pitfall. Bard's Tale ripped off Wizardry. Every FPS ripped off Doom. The list is damn near endless. Minter didn't steal anything, he just took an established genre and did it right, the way Halo or Half Life excel as a FPS.

 

Just my two cents

 

Oh he is certainly hilarious. I love reading interviews with the guy. he reminds me of Warren Ellis and Garth Ennis, though his games are more like "What if Grant Morrison quit writing comics and started making games?"

 

 

"If this guy was making money on this pile of Wank, I knew there was a place for me in the industry."

 

-Paraphrasing Jeff Minter on Asteroids for the Zx 81.

 

-Ray

[Jess Ragan]

Nah, he deserves more punishment for throwing all that gaudy glitter onto the screen when you're playing Tempest 2000. Hey, knock it off with the ticker tape parade! I'm trying to play a video game here!

 

Seriously though, I can't blame Jeff for making derivitives of popular games like Centipede and Tempest, especially when some of those games are officially licensed. Besides, what is Centipede but a faster-paced, entomology-themed Space Invaders?

 

JR

[Gregory DG]

He's done some original games too. Hover Bover for example. How many lawnmower games have you played?

[Mayhem]

Exactly. Go fire up Hover Bovver, Revenge of the Mutant Camels, Batalyx, Iridis Alpha and Ancipital and try and let me know what games he copied there

 

It just happens the games he is most well known for are the clones, but with improvements.

 

(and you can't forget Llamatron here, terrific Robotron type game)

[BrianC]

Exactly. Go fire up Hover Bovver, Revenge of the Mutant Camels, Batalyx, Iridis Alpha and Ancipital and try and let me know what games he copied there

 

It just happens the games he is most well known for are the clones, but with improvements.

 

(and you can't forget Llamatron here, terrific Robotron type game)

 

Also the sequels to Gridrunner, a game that started out as a Centipede clone, got less and less like centipede and more original.

Edited August 24, 2006 by BrianC

[pocketmego]

Exactly. Go fire up Hover Bovver, Revenge of the Mutant Camels, Batalyx, Iridis Alpha and Ancipital and try and let me know what games he copied there

 

It just happens the games he is most well known for are the clones, but with improvements.

 

(and you can't forget Llamatron here, terrific Robotron type game)

 

Also the sequels to Gridrunner, a game that started out as a Centipede clone, got less and less like centipede and more original.

 

Now don't get me wrong. I like Yak's game. This was strictly an opinion soliciting thread. The truth is I play Gridrunner far more than any version of Centipede I own. I like the sounds and colors in Yak's games. Though they can get a bit...EXTREME, at times.

 

-Ray

[BrianC]

Exactly. Go fire up Hover Bovver, Revenge of the Mutant Camels, Batalyx, Iridis Alpha and Ancipital and try and let me know what games he copied there

 

It just happens the games he is most well known for are the clones, but with improvements.

 

(and you can't forget Llamatron here, terrific Robotron type game)

 

Also the sequels to Gridrunner, a game that started out as a Centipede clone, got less and less like centipede and more original.

 

Now don't get me wrong. I like Yak's game. This was strictly an opinion soliciting thread. The truth is I play Gridrunner far more than any version of Centipede I own. I like the sounds and colors in Yak's games. Though they can get a bit...EXTREME, at times.

 

-Ray

 

I like Yak's games too. In fact, the Gridrunners are some of my favorites from him, including the original. I just find it interesting how the sequels ended up playing less like Centipede. I recommend trying the demo of Gridrunner++. It makes me want to get the full game.

[Flojomojo]

The Yak is great. Yes, he makes great games on occasion, but he's no slave to it -- it seems like he honestly considers twitch gaming an art form, not just commerce like so many people. He lives in rural Wales with a bunch of sheep and goats because he chooses to do so, and brings out games on his own schedule when he feels like it. I admire his independent spirit.

[BLarry71]

Yak is a hack

[potatohead]

Nah, he deserves more punishment for throwing all that gaudy glitter onto the screen when you're playing Tempest 2000. Hey, knock it off with the ticker tape parade! I'm trying to play a video game here!

 

Seriously though, I can't blame Jeff for making derivitives of popular games like Centipede and Tempest, especially when some of those games are officially licensed. Besides, what is Centipede but a faster-paced, entomology-themed Space Invaders?

 

JR

 

Ahh but he did his job well. That frustration you feel when the pixellation is at it's peak, is a cultivated thing. Without it, Tempest 2000 would be a great game, but would not so easily invoke that trance state all shooter, twitch gamers go for. Pixellation at it's finest! That kind of thing is rare these days.

[Spector]

Minter has a chip on his shoulder over Matthew Smith, his British rival of the 80s who programmed on the C64's rival in the UK, the Spectrum. His absolute contempt for the two classics Matthew Smith wrote (Manic Miner and Jet Set Willy) are based on hypocrisy. When asked which of these two was the best, he said "Miner 2049er or Montezumas Revenge?" In other words, he's saying they are worthless rip-offs.

 

Obviously he's talking rubbish, but coming from a guy that built his reputation stealing ideas from other people, it's tough to take him seriously.

[Jess Ragan]

Minter's right, though. If I had to make a choice between playing Jet Set Willy to the end and getting a root canal, I'd make an appointment with my dentist.

 

JR

[Spector]

Nah - he's jealous because he can't design sprites as good as Matt Smith. Jet Set Willy's far better than any of his games

As Mr Biffo of the UK Teletext games magazine "Digitiser" put it - "I don't get why Jeff Minter has such a reputation; it's all hype. He's a bit like Jeff Buckley- except he's not dead."

[pocketmego]

Minter has a chip on his shoulder over Matthew Smith, his British rival of the 80s who programmed on the C64's rival in the UK, the Spectrum. His absolute contempt for the two classics Matthew Smith wrote (Manic Miner and Jet Set Willy) are based on hypocrisy. When asked which of these two was the best, he said "Miner 2049er or Montezumas Revenge?" In other words, he's saying they are worthless rip-offs.

 

Obviously he's talking rubbish, but coming from a guy that built his reputation stealing ideas from other people, it's tough to take him seriously.

 

Now, I find this very interesting. I never knew they were rivals. Especially given their games are so different from one another. Jet Set Willy and Manic Miner are TOUGH platformers. Makes me want to toss my machine out the window, actually.

 

But, Minter's games are Twitch shoot 'em Ups , more akin to 2600 games.

 

-Ray

[Mayhem]

So Jeff doesn't like either of Matthew's games? Well that's his opinion of course (and I do know first hand what he thinks of them). Other people can disagree. I like Manic Miner but it's far too easy (have scored over 300,000 on it and others I know have scored over 600,000). JSW on the other hand is a marmite game, you either love it or hate it. I don't particularly care much for it myself. Most of Jeff's games I do love however, except for Mama Llama which was just too difficult in general for anyone other than Jeff

[gdement]

Just about every game ever written can be discredited with the argument that it's a ripoff of something else. Video games are a gradual evolution, just like any other art form.

 

Good execution of a fun game is more impressive to me than being able to claim "I was first." Nobody is ever "first". Whatever you did, somebody did something similar before you. And somebody else did something similar before them. It never ends.

[thomasholzer]

Both Matthew Smith and Yak admitted that the Atari XL is the best 8 bit computer, that makes them top in my book (Interviews Retro Gamer magazine, different issues).

 

(and of course UK (and Japanese) programmers copied US based games in the beginning, there was nothing else, and anyone has to start somewhere)

Edited August 26, 2006 by thomasholzer

[BrianC]

One thing I really like about Jeff Minter's games is that many of them can be legally downloaded for free.

[Matt_B]

I'll chip in and say that even at his most derivative, Minter's games are full of little touches of genius/insanity that leave you in no doubt as to whose game you're playing.

 

That said, I'd agree with those who think his games tend to lack depth. They're great for a quick half-hour blast but not exactly ones you can lose yourself in.

[pocketmego]

So Jeff doesn't like either of Matthew's games? Well that's his opinion of course (and I do know first hand what he thinks of them). Other people can disagree. I like Manic Miner but it's far too easy (have scored over 300,000 on it and others I know have scored over 600,000). JSW on the other hand is a marmite game, you either love it or hate it. I don't particularly care much for it myself. Most of Jeff's games I do love however, except for Mama Llama which was just too difficult in general for anyone other than Jeff

 

I can't even get Miner Willy through the first stage of Manic Miner. Little touch sensitive bastard.

 

You calling it easy impresses this Yank considerably. maybe you have to be a Brit to be super good at that game.

 

I dunno...

 

-Ray

[Matt_B]

I can't even get Miner Willy through the first stage of Manic Miner. Little touch sensitive bastard.

 

You calling it easy impresses this Yank considerably. maybe you have to be a Brit to be super good at that game.

 

Any game that doesn't kill you at random gets easy if you play it for long enough. Although I can now play straight through Manic Miner without losing a life, I can still remember it took me a fair few goes just to get past the Central Cavern.

[Spector]

I'm impressed by MayhemUK finding Manic Miner too easy! I've completed it a few times myself (twice over in one game was my best shot), but if I go back to it after a while, I struggle at the later levels, especially the warehouse one.

I alway thought the level with the kangaroos jumping about was totally surreal and brilliant. So many of the screens had their own personality and style, it was almost like 20 minigames rather than one mid price title.

Edited August 26, 2006 by Spector