Why no Robotron VCS

[pocketmego]

Now, I am clearly aware that any attempt at Robotron 2084 on the VCS would most likely be called Flickertron. However, I am curious as to why we never saw a version of this game on the 2600?

 

Was it released to near the crash years?

 

It certainly couldn't have been too complex to do, that would neve rhave stopped them.

 

Anyone know?

 

-Ray

[yuppicide]

I don't know if it could be done. There's way too much on the screen to draw.

[pocketmego]

I don't know if it could be done. There's way too much on the screen to draw.

 

This is indeed true, but I can't imagine that would have kept them from making a ridiculously simplified one. Sort of like Dark Chambers which was a horribly simplified version of Dandy.

 

-Ray

[supercat]

Now, I am clearly aware that any attempt at Robotron 2084 on the VCS would most likely be called Flickertron. However, I am curious as to why we never saw a version of this game on the 2600?

 

There is no way anything even close to that game could have been pulled off without at least 2K of RAM plus a lot of code. A decent effort could probably be done using 4A50, though I have too many other projects to do first.

[+remowilliams]

Now, I am clearly aware that any attempt at Robotron 2084 on the VCS would most likely be called Flickertron. However, I am curious as to why we never saw a version of this game on the 2600?

Because it would have horrendously sucked.

[+atari2600land]

Someone tried to make a WIP of this game using batari BASIC:

http://www.atariage.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=78149

[Tempest]

It was officially attempted by Atari but never made it past the prototype stage. An ex-programmer saw it in action and said it was the most flickery thing he's ever seen. I keep hoping a prototype turns up some day.

 

Tempest

[Inky]

It was officially attempted by Atari but never made it past the prototype stage. An ex-programmer saw it in action and said it was the most flickery thing he's ever seen. I keep hoping a prototype turns up some day.

 

Tempest

 

But didn't you say that was for the Graduate add-on though?

 

So if a proto DID surface, what would we play it on?

[Tempest]

It was officially attempted by Atari but never made it past the prototype stage. An ex-programmer saw it in action and said it was the most flickery thing he's ever seen. I keep hoping a prototype turns up some day.

 

Tempest

 

But didn't you say that was for the Graduate add-on though?

 

So if a proto DID surface, what would we play it on?

 

It was listed as a game for the Graduate, but I don't think Atari ever had a fully working model of the Graduate so I'd suspect that the prototype was running on a stock 2600.

 

Tempest

[Video]

Actually, I see no reason that Robotron couldn't be done on the VCS, relatively flicker free.

 

The arcade game had several types of good guys, several bad guys, and several chunks of land.

 

Of course, you dould due the land with BG, like Combat, that's easy, the question is to have bullets stop, or bounce.

 

As for charactures, just have two, one enemy, one survivor. And have a limited number, say 4 of each, spread all over the screen, you could set it up so the humans are sprite 0 and enemies are 1 and write some sort of code to have the enemies of the same sprite number avoid crossing paths.

 

I figure the game could be pretty easy to do myself, and still have the same relative feel. Of course, you wouldn't have the dozens of different moveing objects all at once, but even BerZerk showed that you could have a shitload of enemies with no flicker, and have a hectic, well done game.

 

Now, if you wanted to fire in different directions than you look, you'd have to use a second controller, but hey, that's how the original played right?

[supercat]

As for charactures, just have two, one enemy, one survivor. And have a limited number, say 4 of each, spread all over the screen, you could set it up so the humans are sprite 0 and enemies are 1 and write some sort of code to have the enemies of the same sprite number avoid crossing paths.ight?

 

One of the things that made Robotron be Robotron was the fact that there could be 100+ grunts on the screen at once. One might reduce that to say twenty and still have the game "feel" right. But four enemies!?

[Nukey Shay]

Now, if you wanted to fire in different directions than you look, you'd have to use a second controller, but hey, that's how the original played right?

That's how Atari's port for the home computers worked too.

[sandmountainslim]

Nukey,

For ages people have been encouraging you to do a homebrew instead of the FINE hacks which you do.

Robotron could perhaps be the game to catch yer fancy?

WP

[supercat]

For ages people have been encouraging you to do a homebrew instead of the FINE hacks which you do.

Robotron could perhaps be the game to catch yer fancy?

 

The only way I can see Robotron being even remotely workable would be to use a variant of the "Ruby Runner" kernel, but using a bitmap screen instead of character mode. That would allow for an 80-pixel wide four-color bitmap graphics mode (with colors being restricted to 4-pixel boundaries). Hving grunts move in four-pixel jumps and having other objects disturb the colors of things near them would be annoying, but such a technique would allow for up to twenty grunts/obstacles per scan line; if the overall display were a 20x16 grid of 4x8-pixel blocks the overall effect could be quite reasonable even if a little "shrinky-screen"ed.

[pocketmego]

Could Robotron be a similar playing experience using the same number of sprites per room as Berzerk (maximum enmey rooms of course). Or does that game only work because all the enemy sprites look exactly the same.

 

Basically, I guess I'm saying is wouldn't Hacking Berzerk into Robotron work?

 

-Ray

[BrianC]

Basically, I guess I'm saying is wouldn't Hacking Berzerk into Robotron work?

 

I highly doubt it. Robotron has more enemy types and the way the levels advance is different. The Berzerk controls probably wouldn't work for Robotron either.

[Lord Helmet]

Part of what makes Robotron so fun is the sheer number of enemies, and the difficulty of fighting your way our of nearly impossible situations. Lots of enemies have to be able to come at you from all angles, with plenty of speed. I just don't think the VCS can handle a decent port.

[BLarry71]

what if someone hacks Beserk and removes the walls adds more robots and makes them faster and unable to shoot??

[Gregory DG]

A Robotron type game could be created. Kinda like how Yars' Revenge is a Star Castle derivitive...

 

Instead of having dozens of enemies on the screen, just have 6 or so. When one gets zapped, another one appears behind it somwhere.

[Video]

I don't know about haveing enemies spawn though, unless you had a set number to spawn on a level. a few at a time, and a new one spawns near the edge when one dies, but the level ends after killing X number of charactures.

 

Berzerk was actually what I was thinking of as a robotron type game. It's fast and fun, if you want it to be faster, the codes to skip frames is easily done, so you can double the speed of even the fastest charactures. But you still have to rescue people how many people, and enemies shoiuld you limit the screen to to avoid ex cessive flicker? I suppose you could make a characture 8 pixels high, limit to two charactures per scan line, and have close to 24 charactures that way, 12 enemies, and 12 baddies, and you. I see no reason the game can't be done, and even be fairly easily dooable.

[Lord Helmet]

If you want a slower Robotron, with fewer enemies etc...try tron Deadly Discs

[Godzilla]

i think it could work if the game has a smart algorithm that turned large groups of enemies into large playfield blocks where it kept track of how many 'hits' the playfield block had left and adjusted the size accordingly and the use a combo of p/m pf blocks to handle any other groups or individuals. also, use a border, on the top, bottom, left and right, maybe cut like 10 scan lines off the top and bottom (each,) and 2 pf pixels from each left and right side, giving more proc time. also, the reduced size will help you maintain that true robotron feel, without having to ask undoable things of the 2600 hardware. and make sure it supports dual sticks. and to really save , and to be ULTRA realistic (like lets say u really are firing 'lazer beams' they travel at the speed of light and cant be seen. dont draw them.) do the sound, make sure they work 100% as far as hitting, etc, but dont waste valueable resources drawing the shots. if the shots fire and work in predictable, reliable, way, without collision error, it won't affect the gameplay in the least.

[pocketmego]

i think it could work if the game has a smart algorithm that turned large groups of enemies into large playfield blocks where it kept track of how many 'hits' the playfield block had left and adjusted the size accordingly and the use a combo of p/m pf blocks to handle any other groups or individuals. also, use a border, on the top, bottom, left and right, maybe cut like 10 scan lines off the top and bottom (each,) and 2 pf pixels from each left and right side, giving more proc time. also, the reduced size will help you maintain that true robotron feel, without having to ask undoable things of the 2600 hardware. and make sure it supports dual sticks. and to really save , and to be ULTRA realistic (like lets say u really are firing 'lazer beams' they travel at the speed of light and cant be seen. dont draw them.) do the sound, make sure they work 100% as far as hitting, etc, but dont waste valueable resources drawing the shots. if the shots fire and work in predictable, reliable, way, without collision error, it won't affect the gameplay in the least.

 

I agree with everythig you said except the shot fire. Even if its just an Asteroids type dot, something needs to be there to represent fire. Only because Robotron would be hard to play without some way to trace your shots.

 

-Ray

[jpfalcon2003]

I agree that it would take alot of work if it could be done, but it would be nice to play, have, and own if one day it could.

[ZylonBane]

We've had this discussion before--

 

No 2600 Robotron?

 

My opinion-- it could be done using playfield pixels as Grunts (they moved chunky in the arcade game too), then use multiplexed sprites for everything else. I used to have a mockup of what this might look like, but I seem to have misplaced it.