I (heart) the 8-bit!

[Inky]

A little bacground.. Outside of IBM PC's, the only other computer I have ever owned were the Coleco ADAM and the Atari ST.

 

I loved both my ADAM and my ST, but about 3 or so years ago, I picked up a 600 XL on Ebay, and more recently, Dauber's Brother gave me his 65 XE. In the meantime, I have come across a bunch of carts on eBay a few years ago, and more recently from Deathtrappomegrante (Thx! ) I now have about 20 carts for the 8-bit.

 

Yesterday, in addition to acquiring a "broken" CX 40 and a labelless Coleco cart for free, I noticed a silver book in a box behind the counter. I asked to see what it was. It was a dog-eared copy of "Inside Atari Basic". The guy let me have it for $3. I snapped it up..

 

I now have to say that after doing some tutorials of the basic language, and playing the hell out of the 8 Bit carts (Mostly Dreadnaught Factor and Caverns of Mars), I have to say that I love my 8- bit more than the ST's I had owned for over 15 years, and more than my ADAM. (and almost more than my PC, but I need that one to browse the web)

 

This is very exciting. I am looking forward to diving into the basic language, and crafting some simple games. "Its gonna be so cool!", as my daughter always says.

 

ALL HAIL THE 8-Bit!

[Ross PK]

Yeah, the ST is pretty souless in comparison, infact it didn't really seem to have that many good games either.

 

I remember selling my 800XL for an ST (I had to, it was the only way to be able to afford the ST, but I was planning on buying another 800XL at some point) when I was a kid, and I totally regreted it.

Edited September 9, 2006 by Ross PK

[Inky]

"Soulless" That's a good way to describe the ST. Not to say that the ST is a bad system. Its not bad, by a long shot, but it was missing "something".

 

I think the fact that a lot of software was released on carts and the built in basic (or basic on cart) of the 8-Bit line are really what sets the lione apart from the ST.. That and the fact that my (limited) experience with ST Basic and Atari basic on the 65 XE, leads me to believe the 8 bit basic is a better language.

[Plastron]

"Soulless" That's a good way to describe the ST. Not to say that the ST is a bad system. Its not bad, by a long shot, but it was missing "something".

 

I think the fact that a lot of software was released on carts and the built in basic (or basic on cart) of the 8-Bit line are really what sets the lione apart from the ST.. That and the fact that my (limited) experience with ST Basic and Atari basic on the 65 XE, leads me to believe the 8 bit basic is a better language.

 

 

The ST did not lack soul it lacked hardware scrolling thats why many scrolling games were not full screen. I think it would have had much better games it hardware srcolling was supported.

[deathtrappomegranate]

Yeah, it was scroll-less

 

I agree about that, and I also think that the lack of BASIC in ROM did it no favours. There's something about the cartridge format that's more engaging than disks or cassettes, too.

[Inky]

There's something about the cartridge format that's more engaging than disks or cassettes, too.

 

Let's just say that I still have many of my original Atari 2600 games from when I was a kid. I can't say the same about games on floppy from my ST.

[Gregory DG]

Soulless? Phbbt... It is what you make of it.

 

I remember when I bought my ST. The dealer I bought it from said, "Once you get an ST, you'll never play your old 8-bit games again." He was right at the time. Once I got my ST, I packed my 8-bit away for many years. (In fact, I've dug it out maybe 4 times.)

 

Anyway... Not to totally derail the thread, but does anyone know of a way to hook the 8-bit to a sc1224 or 1435 monitor?

[Inky]

I dunno Greg... I liked my ST's. I can remeber logging hours upon hours on Dungeon Master. That is easily one of the top 5 best games ever made..

 

Maybe its just becaUSE I'm learning the joys of the 8-bit. There's something more alluring to me on the lowwly 8 bits, than the ST.

[potatohead]

I dunno Greg... I liked my ST's. I can remeber logging hours upon hours on Dungeon Master. That is easily one of the top 5 best games ever made..

 

Maybe its just becaUSE I'm learning the joys of the 8-bit. There's something more alluring to me on the lowwly 8 bits, than the ST.

 

8 bitters are simple. That's what attracts me. It makes fun experiences possible without having to have a phd in programming and or a small team to develop assets to go with it. Look at the home brews. Great fun from one person, or maybe a couple doing it because they can.

 

The expectations are low too. That lets people explore all aspects of the presentation in a way that's very accessable compared to more complex machines.

 

The system resources required to display a single desktop icon on more powerful computers will often exceed those of an entire 8bitter! Despite this, they are still fun and engaging machines.

 

IMHO, the 8bit basic is pretty damn cool. I enjoyed it a lot more than I did other basics.

[potatohead]

I dunno Greg... I liked my ST's. I can remeber logging hours upon hours on Dungeon Master. That is easily one of the top 5 best games ever made..

 

Maybe its just becaUSE I'm learning the joys of the 8-bit. There's something more alluring to me on the lowwly 8 bits, than the ST.

 

8 bitters are simple. That's what attracts me. It makes fun experiences possible without having to have a phd in programming and or a small team to develop assets to go with it. Look at the home brews. Great fun from one person, or maybe a couple doing it because they can.

 

The expectations are low too. That lets people explore all aspects of the presentation in a way that's very accessable compared to more complex machines.

 

The system resources required to display a single desktop icon on more powerful computers will often exceed those of an entire 8bitter! Despite this, they are still fun and engaging machines.

 

IMHO, the 8bit basic is pretty damn cool. I enjoyed it a lot more than I did other basics.

 

 

I've often thought of getting an Amiga for the cool hardware. I don't bother because with that comes more complexity. If I'm gonna compute for fun 'n games, it's always a better experience on 8 bit machines.

 

(Might eventually get another CoCo 3 though. I really miss programming the 6809.

 

Somebody needs to make a $50 6809 game unit with Atari style graphics systems! Enough screen limitations to keep the 8bit allure alive, but a more powerful CPU to enable more complex experiences.

 

(I know, nobody but a few of us would care, but still....)

[Gury]

Yeah, I read about Coco systems and 6809 microprocessor. The special DOS on disk (OS9?) made Coco really great system. Nevertheless, I enjoy Atari 8-bit, it has something... the spirit of 80' computing. If I had to choose between Atari ST and Amiga 500/2000, I would choose Amiga, because of hardware scrolling and sprites. But ST is good system either... MIDI port, OS, graphics in some extent... I would like to have Falcon, with great graphics, sound, all kind of ports and 99% compatibility with older STs. Too bad 68030 Falcon didn't sell more as expected and that 68040 Falcon didn't make it to the market...

[Cybernoid]

 

Anyway... Not to totally derail the thread, but does anyone know of a way to hook the 8-bit to a sc1224 or 1435 monitor?

 

Slight derailment...

 

I thought about doing this. I think it is possible to get a black and white picture to an sc1224 monitor if you take the LUMA signal from the GTIA (pins 22,23 or 24) and connect these to the Red, Green and Blue pins of the ST monitor (pins 7,6 and 10). Then you could use a sync separator chip to create the horizontal and vertical syncs... maybe this one: http://www.national.com/images/pf/LM1881/00915001.pdf. Connect the composite video output from the atari to the LM881 or maybe even use the CSYNC signal from the GTIA....

 

Just an idea...

[Shannon]

If yer gonna try your hand at programming. Get yourself a better version of basic. The built in one has some limitations, especially when dealing with graphics, PM's, Arrays, etc.

[Inky]

I saw an eBay auction for Atari MS Basic... HOw's that one?

[Almost Rice]

I saw an eBay auction for Atari MS Basic... HOw's that one?

 

I dont think that one is used all that much.

[Inky]

No matter. The auction is going for way out of my price range.

[accousticguitar]

No matter. The auction is going for way out of my price range.

 

Check this one out. From what I've read, Basic XL is a better version of Atari basic. It runs programs a lot faster than the original, has no bugs, and uses the same commands. It ends tomorrow.

 

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewI...A%3AIT&rd=1

[Shannon]

Basic XE+ or whatever it was named has always been a favorite of mine, but I've seen people on here sing the praises of some PD basics.

 

Action is a prett cool language as well.

[Gunstar]

I was an 8-bit man to start with, way back in 1985. I didn't even own an ST until 2001. I went straight from my 130XE to the Atari Jaguar back in 95, and still used my 8-bit for word processing and spreadsheets in college. l definately love the 8-bit. But I do love the ST too. I think it has some great games, especially polygonal/vector graphics, this was the ST's strong point with it's faster 68000 processor and those games are really amazing on a MegaSTE at 16Mhz or the Falcon. But I definanely remember asking about the ST's graphic processor when I was a nubey, and was absolutely shocked to find out there was no dedicated Graphics co-processor. But I do like to watch ST demos that some very good programmers managed to pull off, that look every bit as good as Amiga demos. Then I think about the fact that the ST sold for about half the price of an Amiga, and then ask myself which computer gave you more for your money and hands down it's the ST. That is of course academic now, you can get an Amiga for just as cheap as an ST. But for being a machine that was designed and on the market in less than a year at a rock bottom price, the ST is an amazing piece of hardware that can be a suprise.

 

Uhh...back to the 8-bit, it's the best 8-bit ever, 'nuff said. Though I do think the CoCo is an overlooked underdog, just like the Atari 8-bits, especially the CoCo 3.

[Gury]

Basic XE+ or whatever it was named has always been a favorite of mine, but I've seen people on here sing the praises of some PD basics.

 

Action is a prett cool language as well.

Yes, of course. Free public domain Turbo BASIC XL completely replaces Atari BASIC, with 3x - 7x faster execution, compiled programs gain even more speed. Unfortunatelly TBXL works just with XL/XE series of computers. Does anybody know if BASIC XE has runtime package for all others who do not own original cartridge?

 

Action! became my choice for programming. Executable files are very close to assembler in speed, even resulting code can be reduced if you know how. Its syntax has many similarities to Pascal and C, so it was logical choice for me. And reusing the code, modular programming, in-array assembler... I like it.

[www.atarimania.com]

Unfortunatelly TBXL works just with XL/XE series of computers.

Turbo BASIC 1.4 was specifically written to run on the 400/800. A number of TBXL titles probably won't work on the older machines but you CAN program in Turbo BASIC if you only have a 400 or 800.

 

--

Atari Frog

http://www.atarimania.com

[Gury]

That's great! I use TBXL 1.5, which does work only on XL/XE.

[Ansiterm]

I too liked programming in ACTION! because it resembles Pascal and C which I used on other platforms. But eventually I built up a library of assembler routines and programmed in that. I could write very fast and lean code. This was back in the 80's of course. 6502 machine code isn't complicated, but I've forgotten the hardware and the details of display lists and squeezing the most out of 48/64K and all that. But it was fun.

 

Basic XE+ or whatever it was named has always been a favorite of mine, but I've seen people on here sing the praises of some PD basics.

 

Action is a prett cool language as well.

Yes, of course. Free public domain Turbo BASIC XL completely replaces Atari BASIC, with 3x - 7x faster execution, compiled programs gain even more speed. Unfortunatelly TBXL works just with XL/XE series of computers. Does anybody know if BASIC XE has runtime package for all others who do not own original cartridge?

 

Action! became my choice for programming. Executable files are very close to assembler in speed, even resulting code can be reduced if you know how. Its syntax has many similarities to Pascal and C, so it was logical choice for me. And reusing the code, modular programming, in-array assembler... I like it.

[Inky]

Delightful. Now that I got my tape drive, I cannot for the life of me get the 'Canyon Climber' tape to load... I either sit forever on the title screen, or get a 'BOOT ERROR'

[Inky]

Great... Tape appears to squeal, and the door on the drive appears to be slightly warped.