Recent Homebrews

[sandmountainslim]

I mean no disrespect to the older Homebrew games but does it seem to anyone other than myself that the games which have been released in the past couple years have really been picking up speed?

To me it seems like some of the recent games are as good as anything Activision put out back in their prime.

Any thoughts?

WP

[godzillajoe]

I'm jealous of even the "worst" homebrews.

 

I'm still working on that skill

[jbanes]

I mean no disrespect to the older Homebrew games but does it seem to anyone other than myself that the games which have been released in the past couple years have really been picking up speed?

To me it seems like some of the recent games are as good as anything Activision put out back in their prime.

Any thoughts?

It's not too surprising. The Homebrewers started in the same place Atari did back in the day. i.e. Just happy to get something cool to run on the 2600. As time goes on, however, the community familiarity with the machine grows by leaps and bounds. They understand more about what is possible, develop more advanced cartridge hardware, and attempt more complex feats. Not to mention the huge library of tricks that develop both from disassembling old games as well as studying the TIA/6502 inside and out.

 

So it's not too surprising that games have been going from the level of Combat up to the level of, say, H.E.R.O.

[Thomas Jentzsch]

IMO it's a bit different. It's not mainly due to knowing more about the machine, but due to more and more talented people joining the community. Which is also happening because of the great support of the community.

[Big Player]

I think that Marble Craze and Thrust hold up nicely.

 

Of course, Thrust has been updated so many times that does it really count as an older homebrew?

 

I bought the older version of Thrust just before the final one was released.

[sandmountainslim]

I am amazed at the work of the homebrew authors (Ladybug being the latest example to blow my mind) but I am just as impressed with the machine itself!

How in the world can a piece of electronic equipment built and designed in the days of televisions with knobs and woodgrain and rotary wall phones continue to do things never thought possible?

Think about it, Elvis had just died and Happy Days was televisions biggest hit when the VCS came out.

How does it continue to amaze us today?

Stunning machine!

[supercat]

How in the world can a piece of electronic equipment built and designed in the days of televisions with knobs and woodgrain and rotary wall phones continue to do things never thought possible?

Stunning machine!

 

Indeed. I think the 2600 illustrates very nicely the immense and underrated power of the microprocessor, which at the time was seen as simply a means of using a couple of cheap chips to replace a bunch of logic.

[jpfalcon2003]

The newer homebrews are very impressive indeed.

[Thomas Jentzsch]

Of course, Thrust has been updated so many times that does it really count as an older homebrew?

IMO yes, because the core remained completely unchanged from the beginning.

[jbanes]

Of course, Thrust has been updated so many times that does it really count as an older homebrew?

IMO yes, because the core remained completely unchanged from the beginning.

And that's really why it was so impressive. It was seriously ahead of the homebrew curve. It would still be cool if it was released now (I love that game! ), but it certainly wouldn't stand out as much against the current crop of homebrews.

[Thomas Jentzsch]

And that's really why it was so impressive. It was seriously ahead of the homebrew curve. It would still be cool if it was released now (I love that game! ), but it certainly wouldn't stand out as much against the current crop of homebrews.

I don't know if it ever was that much outstanding, but I agree, there where some really great new homebrews coming out lately.

[Big Player]

Of course, Thrust has been updated so many times that does it really count as an older homebrew?

IMO yes, because the core remained completely unchanged from the beginning.

 

I was joking there. The minor updates don't bother me. I believe the only thing missing from my version of Thrust is Paul Slocum's music.

[Dino]

I think one factor in the homebew games being so good is that they are being programmed by people who genuinely love the VCS and are not doing it for a living - you can't survive off your income as a homebrewer, however many of the original VSC programmers were paid employees who weren't necessarliy in love with the VCS. Also, since the homebrewers aren't doing it to survive, they can take the time to really produce a polished product.

[Thomas Jentzsch]

I believe the only thing missing from my version of Thrust is Paul Slocum's music.

Which definitely means missing something.

[Atarifever]

I still think "This Planet Sucks" looks as nice as the newer stuff. I think it looks as clean as most of Activision's stuff.

[Godzilla]

one thing the classics have that only some of the homebrews manage is that classic gameplay element that stands up to LOTS of repeat playing.

 

(Which came from what I call the pre-paradigm-shift game development axiom of 'playtest playtest playtest,' where they would spend the BULK of their development time honing and developing and sharpening and playtesting the -ACTUAL- gameplay! What a novel idea :-) The shift occured, and now it's the engine/graphics/etc that gets the bulk of the development time (and it shows, imho.) )

Edited September 27, 2006 by Godzilla

[Video]

In my opinion, most of the Homebrews, even from 5 years ago match easily an Activision title. That's saying something. The homebrewer's really know what their doing

 

The best thing is, that no matter the game you get, it's going to be good. The question is, will it be great, but the fact is, there are no bad homebrews being released, and that's awesome.

Edited September 27, 2006 by Video

[mos6507]

Medieval Mayhem is going to be a great contrast between what is possible now in the homebrew era vs. the original era.

 

I knew Warlords could be improved, but not to such an extent.

[mos6507]

The whole question of how the 2600 can host better and better games was addressed in the Stella at 20 videos, now itself close to a decade onward.

 

I think it's important to make a distinction between the 2600 and other platforms as far as advancement in games. While larger carts alone can help, there is a point of diminishing returns where you're stuck up against the absolute limitations of the graphics and sound hardware.

 

I don't think any of the 2600's contemporaries saw such a dramatic improvement in games from the first titles to the last as the 2600 did.

 

The reason for this is the graphics in the 2600 is little more than a series of paint brushes, if you will. Left to their own devices, the 2600 will draw straight lines down the screen as anyone who has fried a 2600 power switch will know. Whatever you set those brushes to do, they do on every scanline. So what you can accomplish, what you can draw, has more to do with how you can change those brushes meaningfully during the display. Change the widths, colors, position, and pattern in those brushes.

 

With other systems, the display is more abstracted, removed from the CPU. You have a bitmap, or you have a character grid, or you have discrete sprites that are only a fixed color and height. Or they may only have half the vertical resolution of the 2600 (which most of the VCSs competitors did) Or they may give you more colors per scanline, but a limited overall palette. As a whole, out of the box, they may appear to do more than a typical 2600 game, but that's all they will ever do whether you have 2K or 2MB carts.

 

So it's amazing that in some areas the 2600 can outclass its peers when coded just right, even though its hardware is much simpler and cheaper.

 

So I think while the CPU is what make it happen, the fact that the architecture allows such a clear path between the CPU and the TV is the key.

 

When Jay Miner's team had the luxury of adding more conventional hardware in the Atari 400/800 and the Amiga, they were mindful of this and made sure to preserve the ability of the CPU to make these on-the-fly changes. So the extra hardware (and the OS) was always in service of the CPU but never a fixed barrier. That's why those systems are also great hobbyist machines. It's just that these days the 2600 has more mystique because its traditional capabilities are so incredibly low that it is more gratifying to get it to do things like Thrust when people are expecting Combat.

Edited October 2, 2006 by mos6507

[+SpiceWare]

Medieval Mayhem is going to be a great contrast between what is possible now in the homebrew era vs. the original era.

 

I knew Warlords could be improved, but not to such an extent.

Thanks, you just made my day

[Chris-in-NJ]

I can't wait to play Medieval Mayhem with four players; I had a blast with 4-player Warlords 25 or so years ago and want to repeat the experience.

 

The animations in this are incredible for a 2600 cart, the dragon looks like it could have come out of a 7800 game, and the knight at the end was a nice surprise.

 

Now if I can only find myself a second set of paddles somewhere at a decent price...

[joeybastard]

The new hombrews are great but I don't think they are better than some of the older ones.

 

This Planet Sucks, Thrust+, Marble Craze, SCSIcide, Oystron & Gun Fight easily hold their own against any of the newer ones, IMHO.

[+SpiceWare]

It's a lot more fun with 4 players. Over the holidays we played at my parents' and my mom insisted that the winner of each round dance to the music while the knight marched across. It was a blast

 

Espire8 did a great job with the dragon. There's 16 different animation sequences and the dragon will go thru a number of them each round for a nice variety. The knight was a nice surprise to me as well - Espire8 came up with him towards the end of development. Before that I had trophies that would fly across the screen, and before that some hard to read text messages. Took a bit of effort to make him fit in, but it was well worth it.

 

If you're intersted you can follow the development history in both the Homebrew Discussion post and my blog. There's different stuff in each place, the blog tends to be more technical.

 

I also made these animated screenshot history images, it's neat to see how the game changed over time:

 

Main Menu

 

Game screen

[kirin jensen]

The whole question of how the 2600 can host better and better games was addressed in the Stella at 20 videos, now itself close to a decade onward.

 

I think it's important to make a distinction between the 2600 and other platforms as far as advancement in games. While larger carts alone can help, there is a point of diminishing returns where you're stuck up against the absolute limitations of the graphics and sound hardware.

 

I don't think any of the 2600's contemporaries saw such a dramatic improvement in games from the first titles to the last as the 2600 did.

 

The reason for this is the graphics in the 2600 is little more than a series of paint brushes, if you will. Left to their own devices, the 2600 will draw straight lines down the screen as anyone who has fried a 2600 power switch will know. Whatever you set those brushes to do, they do on every scanline. So what you can accomplish, what you can draw, has more to do with how you can change those brushes meaningfully during the display. Change the widths, colors, position, and pattern in those brushes.

 

With other systems, the display is more abstracted, removed from the CPU. You have a bitmap, or you have a character grid, or you have discrete sprites that are only a fixed color and height. Or they may only have half the vertical resolution of the 2600 (which most of the VCSs competitors did) Or they may give you more colors per scanline, but a limited overall palette. As a whole, out of the box, they may appear to do more than a typical 2600 game, but that's all they will ever do whether you have 2K or 2MB carts.

 

So it's amazing that in some areas the 2600 can outclass its peers when coded just right, even though its hardware is much simpler and cheaper.

 

So I think while the CPU is what make it happen, the fact that the architecture allows such a clear path between the CPU and the TV is the key.

 

When Jay Miner's team had the luxury of adding more conventional hardware in the Atari 400/800 and the Amiga, they were mindful of this and made sure to preserve the ability of the CPU to make these on-the-fly changes. So the extra hardware (and the OS) was always in service of the CPU but never a fixed barrier. That's why those systems are also great hobbyist machines. It's just that these days the 2600 has more mystique because its traditional capabilities are so incredibly low that it is more gratifying to get it to do things like Thrust when people are expecting Combat.

 

I have to disagree somewhat. Towards the end of its life the O2 came out with several games that improved on earlier games. Many are still quite impressive - Attack of the Time Lord, for example. Certainly when you look at Parker Brothers' later efforts, at the very least Frogger and the unreleased prototype Tutankham are the equal of their 2600 counterparts, and in the case of Tutankham I'd go so far as to say it's better than its 2600 cousin. And even with a much smaller community and far less support, it's managed a few real gems in the homebrew side: KTAA, Planet Lander and Mr. Roboto are great games.

[Vic George 2K3]

Just can't wait to see what 2007 has in store for upcoming homebrews.