Colecovision VCS Expansion Module - format specific?

[AussieAtari]

I want to get the VCS Expansion Module for my Colecovision and am having trouble finding one here in Oz but can get one quite easily out of the States.

 

My question is - are the modules TV format specific, or is that handled by the actual CVS unit? My CV is PAL and all of my VCS carts are PAL.

[A.J. Franzman]

Yes, IMO you would probably need a PAL VCS expansion module (if Coleco ever even produced one) to play those PAL VCS carts properly through the CV. Someone with more in-depth knowledge of the systems, or someone who has tried using an NTSC module with all other items being PAL, may be able to confirm or refute this. If Coleco never made such a PAL unit, it may be possible to "frankenstein" one from an NTSC expansion unit and a PAL VCS, but this would be rather technically complicated.

Edited September 27, 2006 by A.J. Franzman

[JB]

If I understand the issues right...

 

 

PAL games would WORK, but they'd be in black and white because PAL TVs can't process NTSC color signals.

The software sets the screen refresh, which is why PAL games in NTSC systems on NTSC sets roll badly. So as long as your set supports the refresh rate used, you'll get a visible picture.

 

As far as kludging a hybrid... that depends on if Coleco's parts match Atari's.

The stuff of the era was simple enough that it's not hard to swap a video chip unless you're trying to swap it for one with diffrent pinouts.

[AussieAtari]

PAL modules were available in Oz, they just don't seem to come up for sale.

 

Most TV's sold in Oz support both PAL and NTSC playback, which is handy for DVD's, NTSC consoles and the like.

 

Given what JB has said, it should all work fine. I might give it another month or so of looking locally before I import one from the States.

[JB]

I'm not 100% positive. It's my understanding of the issue, but I haven't confirmed it first-hand.

 

...

 

Oooh, if your TV supports 60Hz as well as NTSC/PAL formatting, you could replace all your games with the faster NTSC versions and play them as they were meant to be played!

[AussieAtari]

Oooh, if your TV supports 60Hz as well as NTSC/PAL formatting, you could replace all your games with the faster NTSC versions and play them as they were meant to be played!

 

That might be the way I have to go in order to get my last "holy Grail" - a 5200, as I have not seen one come up for sale on eBay Oz for over a year now.

 

I've been trying to get a NTSC Flashback 2 for some time now, I've had a couple of AA members offer to arrange one for me but they have baulked when it came to actually arranging it and I cannot find a vendor who ships new units to Oz who does not want over USD$50 in postage!

 

I like PAL format, the picture always seems clearer than the NTSC format movies I have.

[JB]

Oooh, if your TV supports 60Hz as well as NTSC/PAL formatting, you could replace all your games with the faster NTSC versions and play them as they were meant to be played!

 

That might be the way I have to go in order to get my last "holy Grail" - a 5200, as I have not seen one come up for sale on eBay Oz for over a year now.

 

I've been trying to get a NTSC Flashback 2 for some time now, I've had a couple of AA members offer to arrange one for me but they have baulked when it came to actually arranging it and I cannot find a vendor who ships new units to Oz who does not want over USD$50 in postage!

 

I like PAL format, the picture always seems clearer than the NTSC format movies I have.

Well, movies aren't native to either TV format, so they're benefitting from PAL's greater resolution.

 

On the other hand, they run ever so slightly too fast in 50Hz regions, and NTSC should have better color, as that spec allows a wider range of colors than PAL.

 

 

I admit I don't have first-hand experience with PAL stuff, so this is based on the actual details of the formats as I understand them.

The movie speed issue is because it's easier to run them at 25 FPS than duplicate frames. A 60Hz region has 30FPS, which is just too fast, so they duplicate frames to slow it back down.

 

 

 

Games, though... most of them are designed around the assumption of a 60Hz TV. And have the screen refresh regulating play speed. So PAL games are slow.

[A.J. Franzman]

Well, movies aren't native to either TV format, so they're benefitting from PAL's greater resolution.

 

On the other hand, they run ever so slightly too fast in 50Hz regions, and NTSC should have better color, as that spec allows a wider range of colors than PAL.

 

 

I admit I don't have first-hand experience with PAL stuff, so this is based on the actual details of the formats as I understand them.

The movie speed issue is because it's easier to run them at 25 FPS than duplicate frames. A 60Hz region has 30FPS, which is just too fast, so they duplicate frames to slow it back down.

True ...ish. Movies were standardized at 24 FPS around the end of the "silent" era for the most part (but IMAX and other specialty formats still use different speeds). Getting 24 frames to fit smoothly into 25 frames or 50 fields per second is no easy task, since adding a single duplicate frame or field after every 24th results in a noticeable repeating hesitation of the picture. So, movies are simply shown at the 25 FPS PAL rate. This is why movies run about 4% too fast when viewed in PAL format. Fortunately for us 60 Hz'ers, 60 and 24 both divide evenly by 12, so by taking every 2 film frames and turning them into 5 video fields (every odd film frame is shown for 3 fields instead of 2), the speed is matched exactly (well, within something like 0.1%, since the TV field rate is not exactly 60 Hz) and the stutter is hardly noticeable unless you know what to look for.

 

 

Games, though... most of them are designed around the assumption of a 60Hz TV. And have the screen refresh regulating play speed. So PAL games are slow.

Not all PAL games are slow! Several 2600 games were developed in PAL format first, so they naturally play at the correct speed in PAL format. Also, many NTSC games were properly speed-corrected when converted to PAL. The major exception, from what I've read here, is Activision, who apparently did no speed-correction when PAL-converting most (or all?) of their games.

Edited September 29, 2006 by A.J. Franzman

[JB]

Games, though... most of them are designed around the assumption of a 60Hz TV. And have the screen refresh regulating play speed. So PAL games are slow.

Not all PAL games are slow! Several 2600 games were developed in PAL format first, so they naturally play at the correct speed in PAL format.

And the US versions are special hard mode copies!

 

Also, many NTSC games were properly speed-corrected when converted to PAL. The major exception, from what I've read here, is Activision, who apparently did no speed-correction when PAL-converting most (or all?) of their games.

I wasn't aware of that.

I knew speed variance was a major issue on other systems. I guess I should have realized the 2600 would be somewhat immune to that issue, since the hardware FORCED recoding of the games.

[Bill Brasky]

The CV graphics chip does have a external video line-in. I don't know if the signals from the expansion port pass through the CV video chip or bypass it and go straight to the rf modulator circuitry. I would think that if it has to pass through the PAL CV video chip it's going to end up PAL.

[AussieAtari]

Not all PAL games are slow! Several 2600 games were developed in PAL format first, so they naturally play at the correct speed in PAL format. Also, many NTSC games were properly speed-corrected when converted to PAL. The major exception, from what I've read here, is Activision, who apparently did no speed-correction when PAL-converting most (or all?) of their games.

 

Maybe that is why River Raid is one of my all-time favourite games - because it is slow! Mind you, the fact that some PAL games are slower just makes the fact that I am a crap gamer even worse