600XL Composite and Audio upgrade

[tjlazer]

OK I just performed the 64K Upgrade to my 600XL! Now I want to add a Composite and Audio RCA jack to my US machine (since we do not have a monitor port) I figure it would be best to just add two RCA jacks and be done with it.

 

Here is the text on how to add a monitor jack:

 

http://atrey.karlin.mff.cuni.cz/~pavel/atari/600xlmon.html

 

But I will be adding two RCA jacks, probably right above the Channel selector switch towards the top. Should look clean.

 

Question I have is about the little circuit I need to build, since I am a noob (but learning as I did my 64k mod succesfully!) Does anyone have a pic of what it would look like put together? I cannot read schematics too well. It is just as it shows? If anyone actually has a pic that would be great.

[Rybags]

It's a reasonably simple looking circuit. Probably best built on a cheap 3x3cm breadboard or something.

 

I've just done a search but all that turned up was other copies of that document, and "add chroma" mods for the non-US 600XLs that came with monitor ports.

 

If you did the 64K upgrade yourself, this should be a walk in the park.

 

The transistor would likely be a square shape with 3 legs - so you'd probably want to solder the 2.2K resistor directly between collector and base (some bending of the resistor wires required). That shared junction should then also have a wire which goes to your +5 Volts source on the motherboard.

 

Then you'd have the 3K sharing the junction with the 2.2K and base, with a wire connected which you connect to "signal in" on the motherboard.

Other end of the 3K goes to a shared junction with the 75K and a wire (which you then solder to a suitable ground point). Other end of the 75K goes to a shared junction with emitter and another wire (which should then go via the "signal out" near the modulator, then onto the centre terminal of your RCA jack).

 

^^^ Probably more confusing than the original description.

[tjlazer]

Thanks for your help!

 

But I am confused about one thing, it mentions "After you have built

this little circuit, you unsolder the 1st wire from the right of the

RF modulator as you look at it from the front of the computer,

and then solder that to the Signal In of this circuit."

 

What I take that to say is, "Solder the Signal In to the wire I just unsoldered from the motherboard" Going to the RF Mod. Is that correct? Then solder the Signal Out to the point on the motherboard that the RF WAS soldered to? Or is it the other way around? LOL

[Rybags]

That sounds right.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emitter_follower

 

All your circuit appears to be doing is amplifying the signal. The diagram/method in the mod appears to be valid. One thing I noticed when doing an S-Video jack for my 130XE was that the colour was washed out somewhat - maybe that is the purpose of this circuit?

 

I would presume that the RF modulator probably contains circuitry to produce a balanced signal which would compensate for an overly strong input signal.

 

I'd suggest if you can, take pictures along the way - the original text is probably from the BBS days, a lot of people could benefit from a more modernised guide.

[Xebec's Demise]

About how long does it take to do these upgrades when you have all the parts ready?

[Rybags]

They're fairly quick. The 8-bitters are pretty easy to work on - good spacing between components, nice sized solder pads and most componentry is pretty well labeled.

 

I did the Super Video mod on the 800XL in stages, but all up probably under 2 hours work.

 

A simple one like adding chroma to an 800XL takes all of 10 minutes - half the work is getting the wire to the right length, adding the resistor, then doing the heatshrink insulation job.

 

My second APE interface, I built into my 130XE using the circuit board which I took from an old PC mouse (and hacked and modified). That was about a 4 hour job but I spent the time getting it right and making it such that I could still pull the machine apart without risking damaging the interface (I used a header block so it could just be unplugged).

[Xebec's Demise]

I never had a 600XL before, until recently, but it has become my favorite 8-bit now because of it's small size!

 

My 600XL is at MEtalGuy66's. He is going to do a 512k Rambo upgrade and also says he needs to add in Composite Video and Audio out jacks to test it. I don't know how much harder the Rambo upgrade is, but I guess he must really be swamped with the MIOs.

 

I suppose this upgrade is likely the same Composite Video and Audio addition or are there different ones? What about the chroma upgrade?

Edited November 12, 2006 by Xebec's Demise

[Rybags]

This one is a bit different. US 600XLs didn't come with the monitor jack so I'd assume there'd be some missing circuitry internally.

 

Probably a similar story with the audio - on machines with monitor port you just take the audio from there - with the US 600XL you'd have to source it from somewhere else, but I would guess that no extra circuitry would be needed (maybe just a resistor?).

 

The chroma upgrade for the 800XL is just undoing Atari's penny-pinching. All of 8 cents worth of resistor, wire, shrink-tube and solder (if that).

[Almost Rice]

I never had a 600XL before, until recently, but it has become my favorite 8-bit now because of it's small size!

 

My 600XL is at MEtalGuy66's. He is going to do a 512k Rambo upgrade and also says he needs to add in Composite Video and Audio out jacks to test it. I don't know how much harder the Rambo upgrade is, but I guess he must really be swamped with the MIOs.

 

I suppose this upgrade is likely the same Composite Video and Audio addition or are there different ones? What about the chroma upgrade?

 

I love its small size too. So its your 600xl that MG has. I have been looking at the schematic he has drawn up for the design. I thought it was 256k though.

 

 

This one is a bit different. US 600XLs didn't come with the monitor jack so I'd assume there'd be some missing circuitry internally.

 

Probably a similar story with the audio - on machines with monitor port you just take the audio from there - with the US 600XL you'd have to source it from somewhere else, but I would guess that no extra circuitry would be needed (maybe just a resistor?).

 

 

PAL 600XLs do have the monitor port. Also BEST sells a kit to put the monitor port on a 600xl. I think its $12-13. This is a good deal if you have to pick up the parts anyway. If you have the components laying around then following the instructions above would be a cheaper. You will lose the channel switch for the RF if you get the BEST kit.

 

Also the audio out can be taken from the 2nd connection from the left on the RF.

 

Here is my 600xl with 64k and composite out. I have cleaned up the 64k upgrade because I have found shorter connections for the 3 wires. The 3 white wires are for the 64k upgrade. Red for the video and yellow for the audio. Hope this helps. The circuit is soldered onto pin 14 of U7 so I cant really remove it so you can see the connections from the underside.

Edited November 12, 2006 by Almost Rice

[tjlazer]

Cool thanks, you wouldn't happen to have a pic of the underside of that little circuit board? It looks like the first connection at right of RF is looped and disconnected?

 

BTW when I did the Composite on the 800XL I used this article, it calls for just a wire and works great.

 

http://aland.roarvgm.com/mods/32.html

[Almost Rice]

Cool thanks, you wouldn't happen to have a pic of the underside of that little circuit board? It looks like the first connection at right of RF is looped and disconnected?

 

The RF 1st connection on the right, I think its the signal we used for the composite input into the circuit. The problem with showing you the bottom is the board is soldered onto where that 1st connection on the right side of the RF and U7. The Yellow/Blue wire is the ground. The yellow wire on the right side is the composite out. +5V is coming from the Pin 14 of U7

[tjlazer]

Damn I am just not sure I can wire up the circuit correctly. Wish I could see how you did it.

[Almost Rice]

									   +5V
							---
							 |
							 |
 		+--------------------------+
 		|				   |
 		|				   |
 		|				   | 
 		\				   |
 		/				   |
 2.2K	\				   |
 		/				   | Collector
 		\		   /-------+
 		|		  /
Signal In	|	Base|/
o------------+---------------|  2N2222
 		|		|\
 		|		  \				   Signal Out
 		|		   \-------+-------------------->
 		|		Emitter	|
 		|				   |
 		\				   \
 		/				   /
	3K	\   			   \  75 Ohms
 		/				   /
 		\				   \
 		|				   |
 		|				   |
 		|				   |
 		+-------------------+
							 |
						   -----
							---
							 -

 

This is the best I can do to help you. I turned the image 90 degrees to match the schematic. you should be able to see the connections I corrected the picture today.

 

Edited November 17, 2006 by Almost Rice

[Xebec's Demise]

I love its small size too. So its your 600xl that MG has. I have been looking at the schematic he has drawn up for the design. I thought it was 256k though.

Yes, MEtalGuy66 has my 600XL. I was going to try one of the memory upgrades myself, but I would rather support someone in the Atari community that is already experienced and doing them, especially someone like Ken Jones that seems to take every care in doing things right and professionally.

 

I'm not sure exactly what type of upgrade he is doing, it sounds like a custom design, but I took a close up photo of the board in my 600XL so that I could see all the cool things he does. If it's ok with him I'll post some photos of it when it's done. It started off as a 128k upgrade, but then he told me it would be easier to do a 256k upgrade. I was just looking for a 128k XE compatible upgrade so that my 600XL would run AR: The City using just as much memory as the 130XE. From there he said it would only cost pennies more to make the upgrade a 512k upgarde, so that's where we are at.

 

If it works out well, I have a couple more 600XLs to send his way - I can't resist buying them on eBay. Nice compact little Atari 8-bits! I am actually probably going to sell off my larger 130XE's and 800XLs. I have a 1MB XE with 8 hardwired RAMdisks that can be switched on or off and shuffled around with keystrokes - I'll probably even sell that here soon, just to keep a nice little 600.

 

Actually I do have some PMs from Ken that talk about the upgrade if anyone else might be interested in what he is doing with the Composite and Ram on my 600XL:

 

Here's what sold me on having Ken do it:

 

"One other thing you should consider is that the upgrades I do are of the highest quality. They do NOT look like a "failed abortion" inside your machine. I use the fewest "wire runs" possible, and mount everything professionally. Where possible, I use plug-in boards to greatly reduce the amount of "hand wired" circuitry inside the machine. I also design my upgrades so that they can be easily removed at a later date, in the most non-intrusive way possible." - Ken Jones

 

And some bits on the 600XL Composite upgrade and 512k Ram upgrade:

 

"Ive decided to build a board that plugs into 4 chip socketes on the motherboard (the 2 RAM sockets and the two 74ls158 demux chip sockets)...This will be done in a very neat & clean manner, and will make it real easy to remove the upgrade, should you ever chose to in the future.

 

The board will make your 600XL fully compatable with a 256k 800XL (RAMBO XL or CLAUS BUCCHOLZ upgrade). In otherwords, the ram will be banked the same way as a 130xe.

 

If I add one extra IC, I can make it 512k instead of 256k..

 

Also, I am gonna have a bitch of a time testing this thing because I dont own any TV sets... How would you feel about me adding composite video, and audio outputs? This would be in the form of 2 RCA jacks on the back of the machine.

 

Anywayze... On the composite video issue... Composite video is what your VCR, or any modern TV has, in addition to RF input... Its a single RCA jack, and usually labeled "video in"....

 

While composite video is not nearly as nice as S-video (which the 130xe and original 800 had), composite video is MUCH MUCH better than going through the RF-input on the tv. The RF input is very succeptable to all kinds of signal noise/loss.

 

Composite video is also the type of jack/signal that is required for most "video-in" cards for the PC.. So if you ever want to use your PC to make mpeg movies of your alternate reality exploits, it'd be a real nice thing to have... I am not charging you anything extra for adding the composite video and audio output jacks.. Your 600XL will still have the normal "channel 2/3" RF output as well.. But I have no way to test the machine without some way to hook it to a display and I dont have a normal television set that will take in an RF signal.. I do have many many dislpays that will accept composite video inputs..

 

On the ramdisk issue, if you dont want 512k, I wont put it in.. But it costs pennies to do, and I figured, why not?

 

If you just want a stadard 256k expansion, I can do that.. But 128k is really hard to do, and have it compatable with anything.. The XL is NOT an XE.. There are differences in its memory multiplexing.. Its relatively easy to make a 256k XL thatis memory compatable with the 130XE.. And anything that works with a 130xe will work fine on a 256k (or 512k for that matter) RAMBO XL..

 

The only exception is extended video banking, which is such a rare programming technique that there is no way they used it on Alternate Reality.. And if the guy wrote it on an 800, then theres no way he could possibly have used that feature... Only a hand full of demos have even been written for the 130XE that use that feature.. So...

 

basically.... your choice is 256k, or 512k... There is no cost difference... And I am gonna HAVE to add the extra video ports in order to test this thing.. I do however assure you, that the design work is done, it's just the time of building the hand-wired proto-board to go inside the machine." - Ken Jones

 

Hope that might help you with ideas and be interesting to read, I thought it was.

Edited November 12, 2006 by Xebec's Demise

[Almost Rice]

Yes, MEtalGuy66 has my 600XL. I was going to try one of the memory upgrades myself, but I would rather support someone in the Atari community that is already experienced and doing them, especially someone like Ken Jones that seems to take every care in doing things right and professionally.

 

 

If you look at my composite out circuit. You will see his handy work. Its beautiful, even for just hacking 4 components together. Also, I would probably buy it from him too. But not a priority for me now.

Edited November 12, 2006 by Almost Rice

[tjlazer]

Just came back from Rat Shack and they do not have 3k resistor, they have 3.3, also no 75ohm. Can I substitute?

[Almost Rice]

Just came back from Rat Shack and they do not have 3k resistor, they have 3.3, also no 75ohm. Can I substitute?

 

I believe all mine were "Close enough"

Mine are 2.2KOhm, 3.3KOhm, and 68 Ohm. Top to bottom. I even had to use a 1/2 watt one for the 2.2KOhm resistor. The transistor is labelled: CDIL 2N2222A

 

Still the output is very lacking. Its the worse of any of my atari output, but better than its RF output.

Edited November 13, 2006 by Almost Rice

[hueyjones70]

Has anyone done this upgrade that can furnish a clearer picture or diagram of what connects to what?

[+scorpio_ny]

1 hour ago, hueyjones70 said:

Has anyone done this upgrade that can furnish a clearer picture or diagram of what connects to what?

Hi hueyjones70,

 

I am not sure if you you have looked into this, but I have a 600XL in which I did the 64k upgrade and video upgrade (mine is a NTSC model that did not have the video or sound sound out). I opted to do the Ultimate Atari Video (UAV) upgrade instead. The Brewing Factory sells the upgrade. The connection points for the 5 pin DIN connector are still on the 600XL motherboard too. The connection for the sound out is still wired. I procured a 5 pin DIN connector that fit the motherboard and installed the UAV. I removed the RF modulator in the process and drilled a hole into the case to accommodate the DIN connector. In all, it worked out very well. If you need some photos what I did, I can post it. 

 

Hope this helps!

 

[TemplarXB]

7 minutes ago, scorpio_ny said:

Hi hueyjones70,

 

I am not sure if you you have looked into this, but I have a 600XL in which I did the 64k upgrade and video upgrade (mine is a NTSC model that did not have the video or sound sound out). I opted to do the Ultimate Atari Video (UAV) upgrade instead. The Brewing Factory sells the upgrade. The connection points for the 5 pin DIN connector are still on the 600XL motherboard too. The connection for the sound out is still wired. I procured a 5 pin DIN connector that fit the motherboard and installed the UAV. I removed the RF modulator in the process and drilled a hole into the case to accommodate the DIN connector. In all, it worked out very well. If you need some photos what I did, I can post it. 

 

Hope this helps!

 

Can you post those photos?  I'm planning on doing the UAV with the DIN connector along with a U1MB on a 600XL this week. 

[+scorpio_ny]

1 hour ago, TemplarXB said:

Can you post those photos?  I'm planning on doing the UAV with the DIN connector along with a U1MB on a 600XL this week. 

TemplarXB,

 

Sure! I am not sure if needed the the photos the 64K memory upgrade as well, so I will post both just in case. There seem to be many variations on how to do the 64K upgrade for the 600XL. I chose the one that was the I felt that most easily reversible.

 

Here is an overview of my 600XL with the UAV, 5 PIN DIN and  64K memory upgrade installed. The RF modulator has been removed:

 

Here is a closeup of the 64K upgrade. I had removed the kapton tape that was on for insulation (I am still using my RF shield) I followed the guide that was posted here HOW TO UPGRADE YOUR ATARI 600XL TO 64K RAM:

 

Here is the UAV upgrade. For the record, I did this upgrade before I did the memory upgrade because I had no way of knowing if my 600XL was functional since I had no display to connect to it. I very relieved to see my 600XL was alive when I hooked up to my TV!:

 

Here is a side view of the UAV install:

 

Here is a front view of the UAV install:

 

Here is a view of the case cutout. I wish it came out more neat, but I guess it came out ok. I did slowly by hand. I had already ruined an Atari 800XL case using a dremel trying to do a cutout for the Sophia 2 upgrade.  You can still see one of the cutout guide in pencil still on the case:

 

 

If there are any questions, please let me know!

 

 

Edited October 3, 2021 by scorpio_ny
Grammar

[hueyjones70]

Those are the clearest pictures for the UAV that I have seen. You should sent them to the Brewing Academy to include in their UAV manual.

[+scorpio_ny]

39 minutes ago, hueyjones70 said:

Those are the clearest pictures for the UAV that I have seen. You should sent them to the Brewing Academy to include in their UAV manual.

Hueyjones70,

 

Thanks! A lot of people here on Atari Age have been really helpful with their insight, guides and photos on their projects. It has really helped me with my own projects on my Atari computers.  I hope this helps someone out with theirs!

 

[hueyjones70]

I have seen several diagrams of a way to get a composite video output from the RF video box but the diagrams never look complete to me. The diagram earlier in this topic for example. I would like to see a diagram that shows connections to components if anyone has personal knowledge of this upgrade.

[+scorpio_ny]

50 minutes ago, hueyjones70 said:

I have seen several diagrams of a way to get a composite video output from the RF video box but the diagrams never look complete to me. The diagram earlier in this topic for example. I would like to see a diagram that shows connections to components if anyone has personal knowledge of this upgrade.

I looked back at the thread and took a look at the pictures. The composite video upgrade that seems to be discussed looks like a simple design that reminds me of  the one that is sold for the Atari 2600. See this link for what I mean. With this solution , you may not get the best video signal out of your machine. The audio is probably being tapped from the leftover pin outs for the missing DIN connector. Someone else with more electronics experience can provide a more detail on the solutions provided here.