Loading Atari Bin/Rom files on real hardware

[Paranoid]

Maybe I've been going about this the wrong way.

Is there a way to load a bin or rom file on the real hardware, saying using MyDos?

 

Let's say I want to run the PB version of Montezuma's Revenge in .bin or .rom format from a MyIDE card. Assume I load up into MyDOS 2.0, and when I do a directory of the 16mb hard drive partition on my card, I see MntRvgPB.rom as one of the files. Can I load this file and execute it? Or no dice?

 

Also, has the format of the forums changed? It seems like now I see a funky tree of the thread when I read a post, instead of just seeing them in order.

[Rybags]

You need binary headers and the correct init/run addresses.

 

Ideally, you'd also have a piece of code that does save/restore on the contents of $BC00-$BFFF so that it survives a reset.

 

Also, many carts had self-destruct code in them to stop people pirating them and just running them from RAM - there were cracked versions of just about everything in circulation but downloaded images are likely to be original ROMs.

[tjlazer]

Yes just obtain the executable version of the game and run that. These files are usually .exe, .com or .bin. The .rom are actual cartridge dumps and cannot be run from DOS. Those files are suitable for burning to a ROM chip and ran as a cartridge!

[classics]

Is there a way to load a bin or rom file on the real hardware, saying using MyDos?

 

ROM images are typically uncracked and won't run from RAM, even if they could be loaded. The best thing to do is find the EXE version, which will be pre-cracked and have the required address headers already added.

 

Also, has the format of the forums changed? It seems like now I see a funky tree of the thread when I read a post, instead of just seeing them in order.

 

Click the 'options' button just below the topic search and you can change it back to normal.

 

Steve

[Urchlay]

ROM images are typically uncracked and won't run from RAM, even if they could be loaded. The best thing to do is find the EXE version, which will be pre-cracked and have the required address headers already added.

 

Speakin' of which... did anyone ever release a cracked exe of the Parker Bros. 8K Frogger cartridge?

 

I've so far found about 8 copies of the Sierra On-Line disk version, which is very nice... but I wanted to play the cart version because it's the one I had when I was a kid.

 

I have a ROM image of it, plays great in an emulator... if I had to, I suppose I could drag out the EPROM burner, but that'd mean either gutting a working cart or waiting for an empty board to get shipped to me. Would prefer a software solution (as usual).

 

I tried converting the ROM image to a binary load file, but of course it didn't work (probably the copy protection you speak of).

 

Anyone have this?

[Paranoid]

Heh. That is pretty funny, Urchlay, because this is exactly what has me headed in this direction.

 

There are a couple other problem files, too... but Frogger is one of the big ones, and I agree, I prefer the PB version to the Sierra version, although they're both close. I'd also like a .exe, .bin or .com file version of the 5200 Montezuma's Revenge, which is also hard to find.

 

Click the 'options' button just below the topic search and you can change it back to normal.

 

Steve

 

 

Oddly enough, it reverted back to the way it was originally working, Steve. But thanks, as always for the tips.

[classics]

Try this one. I can't promise I found all the protection checks, I don't really have time to play test it a lot.

 

Steve

pbfrogger.zip

[_Fandal_]

Maybe I've been going about this the wrong way.

Is there a way to load a bin or rom file on the real hardware, saying using MyDos?

 

Let's say I want to run the PB version of Montezuma's Revenge in .bin or .rom format from a MyIDE card. Assume I load up into MyDOS 2.0, and when I do a directory of the 16mb hard drive partition on my card, I see MntRvgPB.rom as one of the files. Can I load this file and execute it? Or no dice?

 

Also, has the format of the forums changed? It seems like now I see a funky tree of the thread when I read a post, instead of just seeing them in order.

 

I don't think there's anything better for handling cart images than S/XEGS RAMcart by C.P.U.!!

 

F.

[Paranoid]

Try this one. I can't promise I found all the protection checks, I don't really have time to play test it a lot.

 

Steve

 

Looks good to me, and is far better than what I had before. Talk about customer service!

 

Thanks!

[www.atarimania.com]

I'd also like a .exe, .bin or .com file version of the 5200 Montezuma's Revenge, which is also hard to find.

Deprotected disk version in ATR format: http://www.atarimania.com/detail_soft.php?...VERSION_ID=6762

 

--

Atari Frog

http://www.atarimania.com

[classics]

Here is the 16k Monty exe. Its just the cartridge image with an exe header.

 

I didn't see any rom overwrites but they might be hidden later in the game.

 

Steve

monty16k.zip

[Urchlay]

Try this one. I can't promise I found all the protection checks, I don't really have time to play test it a lot.

 

Steve

 

Damn, that was quick! Many thanks...

 

I played through the first couple of levels, it seems OK. Most likely, the protection that writes to the cart address space only happens once, when the cart runs from its run address. That's when it crashes with the binary I made last night. I doubt they'd bother to add further ones that happen some time after you've finished a few levels...

 

Out of curiosity, what tool(s) did you use for this? I was going to give this a shot, was planning to modify Atari++ to have it detect writes to ROM. Looks like I don't have to now (though I still might... sometimes I reinvent the wheel because I want to understand how wheels work).

[Urchlay]

Here is the 16k Monty exe. Its just the cartridge image with an exe header.

 

I didn't see any rom overwrites but they might be hidden later in the game.

 

Steve

 

Unfortunately the cart version is a proto that's got a couple of nasty bugs. This is the same as the version I downloaded from a BBS back in my 300 baud days... it has one particular room on level 1 that basically crashes the game (keeps you from ever being able to pick up or use items again, making it impossible to finish the game). There are other differences, too (some missing/different sounds, and the proto level 1 seems harder than the released version's level 1).

 

Paranoid's asking about the released disk version, which someone posted a link to, above... but he wants a binary load version (and so do I). I'm about to try my hand at converting it, but I dunno how successful I'll be.

 

...Actually, he said "the 5200 version", but I'm almost 100% sure the 8-bit disk version is the same as the 5200 version. Paranoid, is that right?

[Paranoid]

I'm not positive. There is a lot of conflicting information on this particular title.

 

This is my understanding:

 

The version generally refered to as the "Proto" has enhanced graphics (like cobwebs and containers in the walls), as well as a Bat that will come and take Panama Joe away if you remain immobile for too long on any level. It starts off with a splash screen that displays the Montezuma's Revenge title, has a far different map layout, and has a "boss" (Montezuma) at the end who stomps his feet... and is incomplete and can't actually be finished. Additionally there are some interface differences, the most notable being that when you die on the proto, it goes to a screen that shows your remaining Joes, and your score, and one of them gets up and "walks" off the screen to replace your lost man. The kid (literally a kid) who wrote the game came to PB with this title (which looks even MORE fun than the version we ended up with) they bought it, and converted it into the OTHER version which was released. The other version looks like what Steve has uploaded here. It is commonly called the "Parker Brothers version". It has no splash screen, there is no extra screen displayed when you lose a man, your men and score always appear in the upper left corner of the display, there is no bat, no cobwebs, no barrles, and no boss, and when you get to the END of the pyramid, you'll find poles that you slide down while collecting gems, at the end of which, you end up at the beginning all over again, but on a higher level with a different map.

 

I've got the 5200 version, and both versions for the 8 bit, and I've played the 8 bit version that I had prior to this through to the 4th level (making it 3 times to the poles at the bottom of the pyramid). The Proto version that I have *is* in .xex format. I have two copies, one regular, and one "cracked and trained". The PB version I have is ONLY in .atr format... and this may be where the confusion comes in.

 

All of this could be in addition to what you said, Urchlay, and may be reason for part of the confusion. It seems entirely possible that in addition to those versions above, the following is true...

 

The *original* proto version exists as an .xex file, and is unwinnable.

 

The PB version was released on the 8 bit as a disk, and subsequently converted to a .atr image file, which is widely distributed. It repeates like an arcade game, and has no actual ending.

 

A *proto* of the PB version that has a bug may ALSO be out there.

 

I'm going to play through this version and at least get to level 2. If I can get that far, I'll report back. It may be that my pattern doesn't hit the buggy room (I have a general pattern I follow, and I skip some of the rooms because the risk outweighs the rewards).

 

In either case, Steve, thanks! Your after-sale support is unrivaled in the retro community... and I'm going to plug you once again...

 

EVERYONE who has an Atari 8 bit XE or XL should have the MyIDE multicart. It is the most versatile, powerful, and affordable multicart solution for retro atari gaming available... but *all* of Steve's products are top tier stuff, and his support for what he sells goes far beyond what I've come to expect from most merchants.

[Paranoid]

Urchlay,

 

I missed your first post preceding your last one, and didn't realize you had already made it through at least two levels.

 

To be honest, I don't know that these bugs you mention are not just part of all of the cart images (possibly doing the same thing on the released 5200 version of the game). Otherwise, this version seems very playable to me. I think you may be confused about what the difference between the versions are. At any rate, the PROTO is the version I've attached. This *is* the released PB version of the game, although it MAY be a buggy proto version of the PB version. If so, it is still ultimately MORE playable than the real prototype version, where once you reach Montezuma, you cannot precede any further. It is worth noting that the real prototype version seems much harder to me. It may be that I'm just not familiar with the rooms but I think that is only part of it.

 

Montezuma__s_RevengeProto.zip - Non Parker Bros. Proto version in .xex format.

 

Does that make sense?

Edited November 29, 2006 by Paranoid

[Urchlay]

I'm not positive. There is a lot of conflicting information on this particular title.

 

You said it, brother!

 

This is my understanding:

 

The version generally refered to as the "Proto" has enhanced graphics (like cobwebs and containers in the walls), as well as a Bat that will come and take Panama Joe away if you remain immobile for too long on any level. It starts off with a splash screen that displays the Montezuma's Revenge title, has a far different map layout, and has a "boss" (Montezuma) at the end who stomps his feet... and is incomplete and can't actually be finished.

 

Right, that's not the PB version at all, and wasn't what I meant when I said "proto" (though you're right, it *is* a prototype). I think of this one the "Utopia proto".

 

The other version looks like what Steve has uploaded here. It is commonly called the "Parker Brothers version". It has no splash screen, there is no extra screen displayed when you lose a man, your men and score always appear in the upper left corner of the display, there is no bat, no cobwebs, no barrles, and no boss, and when you get to the END of the pyramid, you'll find poles that you slide down while collecting gems, at the end of which, you end up at the beginning all over again, but on a higher level with a different map.

 

Right, there are (at least) two versions by PB.

 

One is the cart version, which is an unreleased proto of the game. It plays like the release, but it has the buggy room and the sound effect is missing when you kill something with the sword. There may be more than one version of this: I'm not sure if the two .bin conversions I have are the same (other than the "cracked by" titles), and not sure whether either one is the same as the ROM image from atarimania.com... but they all have the buggy room and the missing sword sound. I think of this one (or two) as "the PB proto".

 

The other is the disk version, the actual release by PB. I've only ever seen it as an .atr image (and I first found out about it from a thread you started a while back, I think). It's a boot disk with no DOS or filesystem. I think of this one as "the PB release".

 

What I thought you were looking for (and what I've been looking for) is a standalone binary load file conversion of the official bootdisk release.

 

The *original* proto version exists as an .xex file, and is unwinnable.

 

Utopia proto.

 

...it makes me really sad: it's the nicest one. I'm watching the title screen repeat while I type this, and I wish PB had just finished up this version instead of stripping it down to fit a 16K cart.

 

The PB version was released on the 8 bit as a disk, and subsequently converted to a .atr image file, which is widely distributed. It repeates like an arcade game, and has no actual ending.

 

PB disk release... doesn't have the bugs. As far as I've been able to determine, this one's never been made available as a bin (xex, or whatever) file. *That* is what I thought you were asking about: a bin version of the PB disk release atr image.

 

A *proto* of the PB version that has a bug may ALSO be out there.

 

Yep, and someone posted it to this thread

 

I'm going to play through this version and at least get to level 2. If I can get that far, I'll report back. It may be that my pattern doesn't hit the buggy room (I have a general pattern I follow, and I skip some of the rooms because the risk outweighs the rewards).

 

My pattern doesn't hit the buggy room except when I forget where I'm going, but that's from years of playing the buggy PB proto and not knowing about the released version.

 

I'm willing to bet the 5200 version doesn't have the buggy room, or you'd have seen threads on here asking for a fix...

 

In either case, Steve, thanks! Your after-sale support is unrivaled in the retro community... and I'm going to plug you once again...

 

EVERYONE who has an Atari 8 bit XE or XL should have the MyIDE multicart. It is the most versatile, powerful, and affordable multicart solution for retro atari gaming available... but *all* of Steve's products are top tier stuff, and his support for what he sells goes far beyond what I've come to expect from most merchants.

 

I second your plug! I've got a MyIDE+Flash and his version of the SIO2PC, and they're both amazing.

 

To be honest, I don't know that these bugs you mention are not just part of all of the cart images (possibly doing the same thing on the released 5200 version of the game). Otherwise, this version seems very playable to me. I think you may be confused about what the difference between the versions are.

 

Well, there's a good reason the bugs are part of all the Atari 8-bit cart images: PB never released the game on cart. Any cart image you find is a leaked PB proto (though I'm not sure whether more than one version exists).

 

As for the 5200, I need to try it out and see whether the bugs are there. Bet they're not though. For one thing, the 5200 ROM image is 32K (the buggy A8 cart images are 16K). Potentially, the 5200 version might have more levels or something...

 

Anything else I seem to be confused about, I'm not. I may still be *wrong*, but at least I'm *sure* about it

 

Does that make sense?

 

Think so.

 

Now, one more wrinkle...

 

Edit: removed attachment, as it was broken. See my other post below for a fixed version.

 

That's my own conversion (just now finished) of the PB released .atr, to a binary load file. For me, it's the "holy grail" version of the game, *assuming* I didn't mess it up (only play-tested it for 5-10 minutes).

 

Weird thing is that the boot disk only has 16K of data (128 SD sectors). So why couldn't PB have released this version on cart instead? That was their original plan... which must have changed for some reason. If they'd been planning a disk release all along, they wouldn't have removed the title screen, bat, boss, etc., I wouldn't think.

Edited November 30, 2006 by Urchlay

[Paranoid]

Ok... I'm not going to do a line by line response, but, I think we've got the definitive exploration of the different versions of this title floating around and how to tell them apart.

 

I hadn't noticed the sword sound was missing. The first time I use the sword, I get an extra man too, so that was the sound I've been paying attention to.

 

But you're right... and, the version you just uploaded seems to qualify as the "Gold" release of this title for the 8 bit.

 

While the version Steve uploaded was definetly "good enough" for me, this version is clearly different and more finished (in the sense that it does seem to mimic the 5200 version completely, and I'll take your word that it removes some nasty bugs).

 

Now, to play them both for awhile and make sure they both work.

 

Anyhow, guys, thanks for helping me through this thread, and doing things I wouldn't have been able to achieve on my own.

[Paranoid]

As for why things ended up so screwed up, I bet it was a kind of precursor of the crash. Companies knew things were starting to come apart and they were just rushing to get things out as fast as possible to try and cash in before the inevitable. In this case, I imagine that it ended up being less expensive to release on disk rather than cart, also. So, they had this great, rich, disk based game, they chopped it down to fit it on a cart, then when they got to the 8 bit PC, they found that it was easiest and quickest to release it on disk. I imagine they went the cart direction originally under the assumption that the 5200 would be the same kind of hit as the 2600 was, and so designing for THAT platform dictated their size and media constraints.

 

Kind of a riduculious way to go about things, but, seems like that was the order of the day, during this period of classic gaming.

[Urchlay]

While the version Steve uploaded was definetly "good enough" for me, this version is clearly different and more finished (in the sense that it does seem to mimic the 5200 version completely, and I'll take your word that it removes some nasty bugs).

 

I was just looking at a hexdump of the 5200 ROM... want to know what the extra 16K of ROM is used for. More levels?

 

I imagine they went the cart direction originally under the assumption that the 5200 would be the same kind of hit as the 2600 was, and so designing for THAT platform dictated their size and media constraints.

 

It's totally bass-ackwards, because the original Utopia version was 32K, and so is the 5200 version... they cut it down to 16K to create an A8 cart that they never released, then bloated it back up to its original size, but didn't put the music/boss/bat back in? I'm sure each step down that road made sense at the time, and it only looks funny in hindsight.

 

I guess the real "gold" version would be to convert the bin I uploaded into a cart image, since that's what PB originally intended. You're probably right, the disk release was probably just cheaper/quicker to do...

 

To turn it into a cart, I'd have to disassemble and re-org the code (binary/bootdisk loads at $7000, the cart port starts at $A000), probably could do without much trouble. Hmm...

[Paranoid]

Wait... are you saying the 5200 version has more levels than the 8 bit version?

 

Seems like what really needs to happen is a conversion of the 5200 version to the 8 bit... as ridiculious as that sounds.

 

But the 5200 version sounds like the "real" gold version to me, if I understand you right.

 

I like your version in .bin, though. If it were in cart form, it would be useless to me. I'm all about the .xex, .exe or .bin, and failing that, .atr format.

 

Check out my post here...

 

http://www.atariage.com/forums/index.php?s...t&p=1184450

 

I think there may be subtle differences between the 5200 and the 8 bits that have yet to be discovered/disclosed/noticed, and it seems like they tend to show up most on PB titles, oddly enough.

 

And no, you're right, it sounds totally bass-ackwards, and doesn't make any sense. Sounds like corporate types were having an orgy of incompetence and the fact that Montezuma's Revenge is such an enduring game says a lot more about the game than PBs management decisions.

[tjlazer]

 

That's my own conversion (just now finished) of the PB released .atr, to a binary load file. For me, it's the "holy grail" version of the game, *assuming* I didn't mess it up (only play-tested it for 5-10 minutes).

 

Weird thing is that the boot disk only has 16K of data (128 SD sectors). So why couldn't PB have released this version on cart instead? That was their original plan... which must have changed for some reason. If they'd been planning a disk release all along, they wouldn't have removed the title screen, bat, boss, etc., I wouldn't think.

 

Your attachment does not work. Tried to load it as a Cartridge and as a EXE... No worky.

Edited November 29, 2006 by tjlazer

[Paranoid]

Your attachment does not work. Tried to load it as a Cartridge and as a EXE... No worky.

 

Works fine for me, I've tested it on Atari800Win+ PC, AtariXLBox XBox, PocketAtari PPC, and an Atari 800XL. All of the images that have been posted, actually.

 

I'm booting mypdos.atr as my OS (or using it from the MyIDE boot menu), and then attaching a 16mb .atr file that has the .bin images inserted into it using MakeATR. I browse to the .bin file, then execute it using mypdos. I'm assuming using MyDos and running the program by typing in the filename would work right too. I did rename the .bin files to a format that follows 8.3 Atari naming conventions.

 

Anyhow, the images are good.

[+remowilliams]

Tried to load it as a Cartridge and as a EXE... No worky.

Same here, tried it with Atari800WinPLus.

[Paranoid]

Yeah, I just tried loading it using the menu "Load Executable" option. It doesn't work that way. It'll just boot to a ready prompt.

 

But if you follow my instructions, it works fine. I just confirmed this. It won't auto boot, it has to be executed from an 8 bit DOS.

[classics]

Yeah, I just tried loading it using the menu "Load Executable" option. It doesn't work that way. It'll just boot to a ready prompt.

 

But if you follow my instructions, it works fine. I just confirmed this. It won't auto boot, it has to be executed from an 8 bit DOS.

 

The segmentation in that EXE file is nutty. I don't think it should actually work.

 

Here is a repacked version of the same file. A little larger but should be more exe loader friendly.

 

Steve

monty.zip