courtesi Posted November 29, 2006 Share Posted November 29, 2006 Reading over the documentation on the Battlesphere Homepage a big "WHOA" occured when I read that BS uses eprom chips. If I am right, these will suffer a greater risk of bit-rot rather than plain old ROMs, no? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atariboy Posted November 29, 2006 Share Posted November 29, 2006 Yes, but the only way to really do it. Rom chips are expensive, you need to produce a lot of them before economies of scale make it practical. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
courtesi Posted November 29, 2006 Author Share Posted November 29, 2006 Yes, but the only way to really do it. Rom chips are expensive, you need to produce a lot of them before economies of scale make it practical. Jesus... I know I am opening a can of worms... But would it be possible to read the contents off the chips, burn new ROMs, then destroy the original EPROMs? It just seems like a hell of a lot of money to risk the cartridge failing on you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Broonale Posted November 29, 2006 Share Posted November 29, 2006 ... waiting for the worms to come! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JagMod Posted November 30, 2006 Share Posted November 30, 2006 Reading over the documentation on the Battlesphere Homepage a big "WHOA" occured when I read that BS uses eprom chips. If I am right, these will suffer a greater risk of bit-rot rather than plain old ROMs, no? No. They use OTP roms. They are not windowed eproms. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+remowilliams Posted November 30, 2006 Share Posted November 30, 2006 Jesus... I know I am opening a can of worms... But would it be possible to read the contents off the chips, burn new ROMs, then destroy the original EPROMs? Great idea! <Runs off to dump BSG cart> 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
courtesi Posted November 30, 2006 Author Share Posted November 30, 2006 Reading over the documentation on the Battlesphere Homepage a big "WHOA" occured when I read that BS uses eprom chips. If I am right, these will suffer a greater risk of bit-rot rather than plain old ROMs, no? No. They use OTP roms. They are not windowed eproms. Great thanks! I was not looking to cause any trouble. For the price I am going to pay it would be nice to know that it will last long enough for my grand children to try it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+LS650 Posted November 30, 2006 Share Posted November 30, 2006 Has anyone out there actually lost a cart to bit rot? Of all the carts on all the systems I've ever owned - which is probably something like a 1000 or more - I've only ever found one cart that absolutely would not, could not boot. It was a 2600 Omega Race, and I never could figure out why it wouldn't start up on one of my several 2600s. Systems fail, but not carts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albert Posted November 30, 2006 Share Posted November 30, 2006 Has anyone out there actually lost a cart to bit rot? Of all the carts on all the systems I've ever owned - which is probably something like a 1000 or more - I've only ever found one cart that absolutely would not, could not boot. It was a 2600 Omega Race, and I never could figure out why it wouldn't start up on one of my several 2600s. Systems fail, but not carts. I've made thousands of carts all using EPROMs and I don't think I've ever had anyone report a problem with a cart over time due to bit rot. And I've come across many prototypes that are 25+ years old and for the most part they've been dumped without any problems. Some of them didn't even have stickers over the window to block out light. ..Al 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mos6507 Posted November 30, 2006 Share Posted November 30, 2006 I think the quality of EPROMs used and environmental conditions also play a part. Coinop games, for instance, often require new EPROMs to be burned. I be nervous about any one-of-a-kind proto that hasn't been dumped that is over 20 years old. Once the bits flip, it's gone for good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+remowilliams Posted November 30, 2006 Share Posted November 30, 2006 I think the quality of EPROMs used and environmental conditions also play a part. Coinop games, for instance, often require new EPROMs to be burned. That's a hell of a good point that you think I wouldn't have forgotten about. I've had waaaaayyyy too many arcade EPROMS kick on me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shawn Posted December 1, 2006 Share Posted December 1, 2006 Great idea! <Runs off to dump BSG cart> Has this game been dumped? I would love to play it but there is no way in hell I would ever pay the kinda cash it commands. I would be just as happy with making my own cart to play it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albert Posted December 1, 2006 Share Posted December 1, 2006 Great idea! Has this game been dumped? I would love to play it but there is no way in hell I would ever pay the kinda cash it commands. I would be just as happy with making my own cart to play it. Please do not talk about pirating Battlesphere or any Jaguar homebrew games here. Thanks, ..Al Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mos6507 Posted December 1, 2006 Share Posted December 1, 2006 Jag carts use special chips. It would be hard to make a loadable cart for it. I don't know if anyone's managed to do it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shawn Posted December 1, 2006 Share Posted December 1, 2006 (edited) Please do not talk about pirating Battlesphere or any Jaguar homebrew games here. Thanks, ..Al Sorry didn't know it was a taboo topic. My bad. Won't happen agian. And just so it's clear I would NEVER EVER try or want to take one cent away from any homebrew author. Edited December 1, 2006 by Shawn Sr. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greenious Posted December 3, 2006 Share Posted December 3, 2006 (edited) Reading over the documentation on the Battlesphere Homepage a big "WHOA" occured when I read that BS uses eprom chips. If I am right, these will suffer a greater risk of bit-rot rather than plain old ROMs, no? No. They use OTP roms. They are not windowed eproms. rotfl So, you are basically saying that by covering up your eyes, you eliminate all risc of going blind? Please, you obviously don't even know the concept of bit rot, so why do you fed people he wrong information? Bit rot is real. And it happens to eproms & proms. mask roms are immune to bitrot, but ALL programmable IC is susceptible to bit rot. Granted, a well programmed (not using "quick" mode) eprom or prom, is likely to last you a long time, probably many decades if you keep them out of UV light, but do you really know it has been given a good programming? Do you really know for sure it is a good chip, and not one that barely passed Q.A.? Edited December 3, 2006 by Greenious Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greenious Posted December 3, 2006 Share Posted December 3, 2006 Sorry didn't know it was a taboo topic. My bad. Won't happen agian. And just so it's clear I would NEVER EVER try or want to take one cent away from any homebrew author. In here, any talk that might hurt the values of a collection, is a taboo topic. Battlesphere will never be produced again(authors have said they won't produce it anymore), along with many other titles, so, basically, regarding this matter most folks in here are just looking after their pockets. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+LS650 Posted December 3, 2006 Share Posted December 3, 2006 Bit rot is real. But how often is a cart lost to bit rot? I tend to think this is an extremely rare event. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greenious Posted December 3, 2006 Share Posted December 3, 2006 Jag carts use special chips. It would be hard to make a loadable cart for it. I don't know if anyone's managed to do it. Jaguar does not use any special chips. The chips are actually standard. It's late generation eproms, and nowadays more or less obsolete, and because of that, getting more and more unusual and hard to source. It is not hard to make a jaguar cartridge, but it is expensive. Most off-the-shelf programmers don't support the eproms used. Because of that, only the 10 (or so) most rare atari games, are even worth pirating. Since 99% of all jaguar fans out there, doesn't have the knowledge to do it anyway, I fail to see what damage a romdump of battlesphere would do. There are romdumps of AvP, defender 2000 and other games out there, yet I don't see any pirated copies of them on ebay, and yet they fetch decent bids when they show up on ebay... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greenious Posted December 3, 2006 Share Posted December 3, 2006 Bit rot is real. But how often is a cart lost to bit rot? I tend to think this is an extremely rare event. It is not a big problem, yet... no With time it will escalate. depending how carefully your game was programmed, and the quality of the chips used, it might take 10, 20 or even 100 years to become a problem. A mask rom is permanent, an eprom or prom will sooner or later succumb to bit-rot. It is just a matter of time. And the only way for you to get an idea of when it will fail, is to read the datasheet, and find out from the manufacturer, how the chip was programmed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shawn Posted December 3, 2006 Share Posted December 3, 2006 Battlesphere will never be produced again(authors have said they won't produce it anymore), But yet conveniently there is copies "found from the "left overs" and so on once in a while and one or two more carts or CD's get out for auction. Not a bad way to get $500 bucks when you need it I guess. But I think from what I've been told over the last few days that talk like this is like pulling the pin on a gernade which is pretty silly IMO. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+remowilliams Posted December 4, 2006 Share Posted December 4, 2006 But yet conveniently there is copies "found from the "left overs" and so on once in a while and one or two more carts or CD's get out for auction. Not a bad way to get $500 bucks when you need it I guess. Hey look another one! "This game and many other rare ScatoLOGIC items will be auctioned off in the coming months to help combat software piracy." 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+LS650 Posted December 4, 2006 Share Posted December 4, 2006 (edited) I put in a bid... and had the high bid for all of 20 minutes. (later) My God... I just took another look at that auction. It's been up less than a day, with six more to go, and it's already had 14 bids. The current high bid is US $300, and I wouldn't be surprised if it hits double that. I could buy three new Songbird carts for less. I think BS is a great game but that's just absolutely crazy! Edited December 4, 2006 by ls650 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mariaud Posted December 4, 2006 Share Posted December 4, 2006 soooo a rare game Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shawn Posted December 4, 2006 Share Posted December 4, 2006 But yet conveniently there is copies "found from the "left overs" and so on once in a while and one or two more carts or CD's get out for auction. Not a bad way to get $500 bucks when you need it I guess. Hey look another one! "This game and many other rare ScatoLOGIC items will be auctioned off in the coming months to help combat software piracy." I guess the real question is, is it piracy if making more of a game you wrote? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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