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madhatter667

FC Twin. Interesting.

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Hey guys,

It seems that there is a new clone out. It's called the FC Twin, and it's being distributed through Yobo. This thing is an NES AND an SNES clone. The NES slot is 72 pin, so it'll take U/C carts. I am wondering if the SNES slot has the tabs that were meant to keep you from stuffing a Super Famicom cartridge in there or not?

 

Has anyone heard of this thing besides me? This system actually looks semi-promising... as there is an actual mobo in the thing (or at least looks that way):

 

http://ultimateconsoledatabase.com/famiclones/FC_twin.htm

 

There does seem to be a couple drawbacks to this though:

It uses SNES like controllers, and should also accept SNES first party controllers/peripherals (the other Yobo clones did from what I have read). This means that it doesn't take NES peripherals...which means no Zapper. But when meshing both systems together, it seems like that was the lesser of evils to choose.

 

The NES part is believed to be an NOAC, although I haven't seen much to support this idea, it is likely. But I couldn't see the main part of that on the board. I have seen pics of other NOACs, and it just looked similar to a processor (minus all the connector pins).

 

I ordered one of these consoles from www.baysoftgames.com. Being based out of WI... shipping was very reasonable.

 

This clone also seems very new, like it was released sometime this month. So I am not very surprised that there isn't a lot of info on this one.

Although it would be awesome if some company got off its figurative ass, and built a really killer clone, I am expecting a few bugs here and there, which seem inherent to all cloned hardware.

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Ebay has alot of them up mostly store sellers. Someone made a post about getting one in the thrift finds here. Page 142 cheese007 picked one up. Pretty good pictures of the system inside and out.

Edited by Ghost Soldier

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Yeah, that's his system pictured in the Ultimate Console Databse.

It looks promising, but I guess I will have to sit and bite my nails until mine arrives.

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There does seem to be a couple drawbacks to this though:

It uses SNES like controllers, and should also accept SNES first party controllers/peripherals (the other Yobo clones did from what I have read). This means that it doesn't take NES peripherals...which means no Zapper.

 

So it should accept the Super Scope 6? If it does, would it work with NES Zapper games?

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Yes, that is my console there, yes, I did give him permission to use those images. Great little system, saves a good bit of space and now I can actually play my SNES games on the 42 inch TV!

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I have one of these - there's another thread here.

 

SNES compatibility seems to be great so far. It experiences the other typical NOAC issues for NES stuff, though it actually seems less picky than my Messiah NEX.

 

I asked for people to point out some games to specifically test for SNES compatibility, but there was no response.

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There was a couple good threads about this system on Digital Press before it was released (which was indeed sometime in November), but Digital Press forums are down for the time being it seems.

 

I'm glad to hear that SNES compatibility is good. That was my main worry. People complain about the compatibility of NES-on-a-chip systems, but >10 out of fix or seven hundred is very good compatibility in my opinion. If the SNES portion of this system is anywhere near that good, I'd be more than happy.

 

The only other SNES clone I have is the Tristar 64 which is similar to this system, actually, except that it's not stand alone, it plugs into the N64. It has horrible horrible compatibility with SNES games. More like 1 in 5 than 1 in 100, though my SNES collection was always a little heavy on first party games and those are the ones that tend to have special chips and whatnot. On the Tristar 64, Super Mario Kart, Super Mario RPG, Mario All-Stars + World, Kirby's Dreamland 3, Megaman X games and many many more didn't work fully (often you'd be able to play up to a certain point and then the game would invariably freeze). Some of those games use special chips and so it's not a surprise that they didn't work, but even many games that didn't use special chips had problems. Even F-Zero would freeze after a couple races.

 

If you want games to test, try those. If they work, I'd say that the SNES component of the FC Twin is pretty respectable.

 

However, there's also the question of the sound chip. It's very hard to accurately reproduce any custom sound chip and the one in the SNES is pretty special anyway, so I'd be surprised if the FC Twin captures it accurately. But if it's even as close a the NES-on-a-chip is--which is to say not horribly off in most games to most people's ears--I think that's plenty good enough.

 

 

...word is bondage...

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The only other SNES clone I have is the Tristar 64 which is similar to this system, actually, except that it's not stand alone, it plugs into the N64. It has horrible horrible compatibility with SNES games.

I've heard lots of bad things about the Tristar 64, which is why I'm glad I have a Tristar SNES (to which I added the wire for FX game compatibility). I don't know how good its NoAC is, but I haven't really cared to try the problem games.

 

The real problem with NoAC compatibility seems to be in handling the more complicated mappers, which is why I'm surprised that the Tristar 64 would have so much trouble with its SNoAC.

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The only issue I'm concerned is a few SNES games like Mario RPG does check for the lockout chip so they may or may not work on any SNES clones.

 

I don't know about unlicensed NES games, some might not work right either because the lockout bypass may cause problem trying to bypass a nonexistient lockout chip on clones.

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So it should accept the Super Scope 6? If it does, would it work with NES Zapper games?

Super Scope and Zapper have fundamentally different behaviors.

But if they do the controller ports right, it should be possible to rig a NES-SNES adapter and plug your Zapper in and it'll work. The SNES controller ports are electrically identical to the NES ports.

 

The real problem with NoAC compatibility seems to be in handling the more complicated mappers, which is why I'm surprised that the Tristar 64 would have so much trouble with its SNoAC.

That and some of the sound bits are swapped. That's where most of the sound glitches come from.

 

But personally, I wouldn't consider any NES "alternative" that can't play Zelda 1 to be viable, and the NOACs can't.

 

The only issue I'm concerned is a few SNES games like Mario RPG does check for the lockout chip so they may or may not work on any SNES clones.

Yah... the SA-1 coprocessor requires a lockout chip. That would lock Mario RPG out, as well as Kirby Super Star and Kirby's Dream Land 3(and a bunch of Japanese-only games).

 

I don't think any other coprocessors check the lockout, though other issues can and almost certainly will come into play.

The SNES is a fairly complex beast, and there's probably a lot of not-quite-right in their clone.

 

 

 

I'm betting their SPC700 clone is gonna make some ugly sounds when it gets passed "white noise." That was a visible issue with SNES emus for a LONG time.

Square used carefully malformed samples in some games to simulate white noise for wind and water sounds(at least in FF3/6 and Chrono Trigger, probably another title or 2 as well). If your sample decoding behavior isn't exactly SNES-accurate, you don't get the right noise(and what you do get is likely gonna hurt your ears).

It's one of those things that's easy to screw up, because your routines can read all the properly-formed samples correctly, but not choke in the expected manner on the bad ones.

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I'm betting their SPC700 clone is gonna make some ugly sounds when it gets passed "white noise." That was a visible issue with SNES emus for a LONG time.

Square used carefully malformed samples in some games to simulate white noise for wind and water sounds(at least in FF3/6 and Chrono Trigger, probably another title or 2 as well). If your sample decoding behavior isn't exactly SNES-accurate, you don't get the right noise(and what you do get is likely gonna hurt your ears).

It's one of those things that's easy to screw up, because your routines can read all the properly-formed samples correctly, but not choke in the expected manner on the bad ones.

Geez, even the DreamSNES emulator for Dreamcast can't get the wind in Chrono Trigger right.

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Well it can't even run games at full speed without a ton of frame skip, so I don't see why you'd be surprised. :)

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I'm betting their SPC700 clone is gonna make some ugly sounds when it gets passed "white noise." That was a visible issue with SNES emus for a LONG time.

Square used carefully malformed samples in some games to simulate white noise for wind and water sounds(at least in FF3/6 and Chrono Trigger, probably another title or 2 as well). If your sample decoding behavior isn't exactly SNES-accurate, you don't get the right noise(and what you do get is likely gonna hurt your ears).

It's one of those things that's easy to screw up, because your routines can read all the properly-formed samples correctly, but not choke in the expected manner on the bad ones.

Geez, even the DreamSNES emulator for Dreamcast can't get the wind in Chrono Trigger right.

DreamSNES is a port of SNES9x, though. So it inherits all the issues that emu had at the time they ported it(and the last release was... back in '02?)

 

I think the current versions of ZSNES and SNES9x get it right, but it's been a LONG time coming.

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Now the Question is..How good does the Extra Chip games with the SNES side..like

 

Street Fighter Alpha 2

Mario RPG

Mega Man X2

Mega Man X3

Stunt Race FX

Star Fox

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Now the Question is..How good does the Extra Chip games with the SNES side..like

 

Street Fighter Alpha 2

Mario RPG

Mega Man X2

Mega Man X3

Stunt Race FX

Star Fox

Mario RPG is an SA-1 game. SA-1 requires the lockout chip. No lockout = no game.

I would bet money that the lockout chip isn't there, so Mario RPG won't work.

 

SuperFX, C4, and S-DD1(SFA2) will depend on system timing, and whether they actually brought the extension pins out. If the system behaves close enough to a real one, and the pins are there, they should work.

 

Add the Super GameBoy to the test list, BTW. It's the most elaborate coprocessor the SNES has. :P

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Add the Super GameBoy to the test list, BTW. It's the most elaborate coprocessor the SNES has. :P

Ah, good one - I tried it and it seems to work fine. Also worth noting is that Doom and Dungeon Master also seem to work properly. This FC Twin is quite neat so far :cool:

 

Now I just need to figure out how to build a SNES-NES port adapter so I can plug a lightgun in.

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Add the Super GameBoy to the test list, BTW. It's the most elaborate coprocessor the SNES has. :P

Ah, good one - I tried it and it seems to work fine. Also worth noting is that Doom and Dungeon Master also seem to work properly. This FC Twin is quite neat so far :cool:

 

Now I just need to figure out how to build a SNES-NES port adapter so I can plug a lightgun in.

http://www.gamesx.com/controldata/nessnes.htm

 

Your pinout is ready, sir.

...

Dang... GameSX doesn't have the last 2 pins on the SNES connector.

I'm almost certain that all 7 pins are wired, but I have no clue which is which.

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Add the Super GameBoy to the test list, BTW. It's the most elaborate coprocessor the SNES has. :P

Ah, good one - I tried it and it seems to work fine. Also worth noting is that Doom and Dungeon Master also seem to work properly. This FC Twin is quite neat so far :cool:

 

Now I just need to figure out how to build a SNES-NES port adapter so I can plug a lightgun in.

http://www.gamesx.com/controldata/nessnes.htm

 

Your pinout is ready, sir.

...

Dang... GameSX doesn't have the last 2 pins on the SNES connector.

I'm almost certain that all 7 pins are wired, but I have no clue which is which.

 

 

Is it possible to wire an NES Controllor to work on a SNES..Just for the Super Game Boy

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Your pinout is ready, sir.

Cool, thanks. Now I need to figure out what to do about needing a NES type jack for a converter cable. I suppose I could hardwire a NES lightgun to a SNES controller cable, but I'd rather have a converter cable.

 

Something else I should mention that's neat about the FC Twin controllers - the X/A SNES buttons function as rapid fire A/B buttons in NES mode. :)

 

Is it possible to wire an NES Controllor to work on a SNES..Just for the Super Game Boy

Yes, that's easy to do. You just need a NES controller and a cable from a SNES controller.

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Your pinout is ready, sir.

Cool, thanks. Now I need to figure out what to do about needing a NES type jack for a converter cable. I suppose I could hardwire a NES lightgun to a SNES controller cable, but I'd rather have a converter cable.

 

Something else I should mention that's neat about the FC Twin controllers - the X/A SNES buttons function as rapid fire A/B buttons in NES mode. :)

 

Is it possible to wire an NES Controllor to work on a SNES..Just for the Super Game Boy

Yes, that's easy to do. You just need a NES controller and a cable from a SNES controller.

 

I don't have a sodier(sp), Can I use something else to hold the wires in place

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IF someone builds an adapter cable, let me know... I'd be willing to cough out a few bucks to get some made, as I am no good with wires personally. Building adapter cables would be sweet though, as it would definitely open up more possibilities.

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