Atari 2600 Phaser Patrol vs. Atari 800 Star Raiders, who reigns supreme?

[courtesi]

Topic says all.

[+LS650]

Pah. Have you actually played both? Sorry, Phazor Patrol doesn't hold a candle to the 8-bit'er. The 2600 has some great games, but there's nothing that's in the same realm as Star Raider(s).

[courtesi]

Pah. Have you actually played both? Sorry, Phazor Patrol doesn't hold a candle to the 8-bit'er. The 2600 has some great games, but there's nothing that's in the same realm as Star Raider(s).

 

I haven't played either. I've played a port of Elite (non Atari version) and while I enjoy it - I think I prefer space combat more than trading / commerce.

 

I've heard that Phaser Patrol is the best "Star Raiders"-esque game on the 2600. I just don't know how it stacks up to Star Raiders on the 8 bit computer.

[+LS650]

Actually, I would say that Activision's Starmaster is closer, but even it's a pale imitation of the "real thing." Star Raiders for the 8-bit was (is) really a masterpiece.

[Godzilla]

i would definately put phaser patrol up against a8bit star raiders. i enjoy them both, but differently. I don't think one is better than the other. However, I DO think that the 2600 and 8 bit versions of Last Star Fighter (aka Solaris and Star Raiders II,) are the best of that type of game for the a8bit and 2600 repectively. love both of em, and they are also 2 of my fave games of all time.

[shadow460]

Hmmm, how much different are th 8bit and 5200 versions of Star Raiders?

I have the 5200 Star Raiders and I have Phaser Patrol. Nothing on the 2600 touches Phaser Patrol, IMO. Starmaster comes oh so close, and I just can't get into Solaris.

[mos6507]

None of the 2600 space games have the variable thrust and aft-view features of Star Raiders (including 2600 Star Raiders). Both are really important to the immersive feel.

 

I'd actually like to see someone hack 2600 Star Raiders to add in these missing features (and real docking as well). The amazing thing is Star Raiders on the 8-bit home computer was done in only 8K of ROM.

[p.opus]

While Phaser Patrol beats all the other 2600 space combat games, it is a bit unfair to compare them. Because in the day, you needed a supercharger cart and take player to load it onto your Atari. Solaris also benefited by being released late in the 2600 life line where the carts also benefited from more ROM.

 

But even Phaser Patrol and Solaris can't hold a candle to Star Raiders. Star Raidersb made you feel as if you were piloting a starship. I remember the first time I used my damaged long range scanned to determine my star base was, because my targeting computer was destroyed along with my shields. The tension was palatable, and the relief that flooded over me with I spotted that glowing golden dot in the distance and realized I was safe. Few games, even today can replicate that feeling. And though that happened over 30 years ago. I may not have an 800, but I can emulate one and the game still feels new to me all these years later

[Vic George 2K3]

I only played Star Raiders on both the Atari 2600 and the Atari XEGS, plus Activision's Starmaster, which I think was a good competitor. Frankly, though, I can't say which of the star fighter simulators was the best, though if I had gotten the 8-bit family computer system instead of the 2600, I might have enjoyed its Star Raiders a bit more.

 

Solaris to me was more like Buck Rogers: Planet Of Zoom crossed with Star Raiders.

Edited September 7, 2015 by Vic George 2K3

[bigfriendly]

For it's time Star Raiders for the 5200 was so far ahead of it's time. The game has so much depth and really makes you think you are in control of a space ship and that you are the only thing standing between the enemy and your star bases. As previously mentioned when you play this game on harder difficulties you are going to sitting on the edge of your seat trying to limp back to your base for repairs. In my opinion one of the most underrated games of all time. Not really fair to compare Star Master or any other game on the 2600 to Star Raiders on the 5200. I remember when my attack computer would get knocked out how difficult it was to warp to my base to get it fixed. I used to wet my index finger and touch the tv screen when I first warped so I would have a marker to keep the cross hairs lined up on. Yes it was cheating but those harder levels were hell to survive through.

[ZylonBane]

What is it with new members immediately diving into the deepest trenches of the forum and dredging up all the threads we'd most like to forget?

[Keatah]

@p.opus

Everyone's opinion is valued here. This is a classic gaming forum. And like old games, old topics are just as interesting as new ones. Don't fret it. On occasion he'll go around doing that. If you actually did something wrong, I'm sure an official Atari Age moderator would discuss it with you!

 

Now:

To answer the question directly it would be SR on the 400/800. Seen lots of clones and look-alikes, but none are as good as the original. There's so much depth and detail. And it can be played by two players too. A pilot and navigator.

 

Star Raiders - heh.. Great fun! We made up loads of imaginary scenarios. I even conducted a training class. I made my students take an aptitude test and written test to determine whether they'd be better at operating the keyboard as a navigator or flying the ship and firing the photons.

 

When my attack computer went out I would flip down a gun sight I made from plastic model sprue. It attached precariously to the top of the TV set. And it worked! I'd announce something like, "Switching to manual!" in a grandiose fashion, and pull an old-school 'lectric knife switch connected to a string, and that pulled the plastic crosshair down. Similar to those flip-down clip-on sunglass shades. It was hinged the same way.

 

I had to get off my ass and walk to the tv to flip it up when it was repaired at the starbase. But we used docking time to pause and get snacks and stuff from the kitchen. Just like they do in Star Trek!

Edited September 8, 2015 by Keatah

[p.opus]

@Ketah

 

Never took offense. In fact my response was on a mobile phone, (which explains some of the bad grammar and misspellings....stupid predictive text...) and I don't remember seeing the last response as being so old. I had found the thread when I was looking up some information of Phaser Patrol, since I now have a Harmony Cart, and wanted to know if Phaser Patrol had multiple difficulties...(which I found out in the HTML docs located here, thanks a ton to whoever wrote that up).

 

It is funny looking back nearly 35 years ago, how different our perspective is. Case in point. Defender is now crucified because Stargate came out in 84. So the fact that Stargate was one of the last gasp cartridges of the system, it makes the orignal Defender that came out in 81 garbage? I remember having a ball playing that game, and still do. We tend to look at the entire body of work on the 2600 and criticize the early games because they were written on cartridges with less ROM.

 

In Atari: Game Over, HSW basically told the bosses that Star Castle could NOT be done. Well, two version of Star Castle are currently available via home brew. So it CAN be done. But it couldn't be done withing the ROM limitations that HSW was given at the time.

 

Phaser Patrol is clearly the superior 2600 "star raiders" but only due to the advantages provided by the supercharger cart. Starmaster game me moments of the same terror I had playing the 8bit version of Star Raiders, but it did not come close to the immersion factor I had when I had to bring up a clearly damaged long range scanner and try to determine which of the two mirror images of my starbase was the real one. And how to use the long range scanner to actually line up with base. I still get a real kick playing that game, and it's played more often than some of the more modern games I have on my Alienware Alpha I have.

 

@Zylonbane: I don't remember tying you up and forcing you to read this thread with Beethoven's Fifth playing in the background. . I must have blacked out....

[BassGuitari]

What is it with new members immediately diving into the deepest trenches of the forum and dredging up all the threads we'd most like to forget?

What is with people acting like some tangible harm is being caused when people dig up old threads?

 

He could either dig up an old thread, or post a new one about the same topic, where a bunch of old-timers jump up his ass with links to old threads and chastise him for not knowing how to use the search feature.

 

Besides, an abandoned old thread about a subject you're interested in is better than a new thread because it comes preloaded with replies.

 

(Note to self: start necrobumping all kinds of random ancient threads just to troll ZylonBane.)

[Keatah]

If you make a new topic on an old subject then they complain it's already been discussed.

[ZylonBane]

You seem to be willfully ignoring that this isn't just an old thread, it's a terrible old thread. Original Star Raiders vs a 2600 knockoff of Star Raiders? That's the sort of utterly ridiculous question that could easily pass as a troll thread. So no, if someone started a new thread posing this question again, the fact that it had already been asked would be the least of its problems.

[BassGuitari]

You seem to be willfully ignoring that this isn't just an old thread, it's a terrible old thread. Original Star Raiders vs a 2600 knockoff of Star Raiders? That's the sort of utterly ridiculous question that could easily pass as a troll thread.

Okay.

[sloth-machine]

You seem to be willfully ignoring that this isn't just an old thread, it's a terrible old thread. Original Star Raiders vs a 2600 knockoff of Star Raiders? That's the sort of utterly ridiculous question that could easily pass as a troll thread. So no, if someone started a new thread posing this question again, the fact that it had already been asked would be the least of its problems.

 

A topic dating back to 2006, let me respond with a meme from 2006.

 

[p.opus]

You seem to be willfully ignoring that this isn't just an old thread, it's a terrible old thread. Original Star Raiders vs a 2600 knockoff of Star Raiders? That's the sort of utterly ridiculous question that could easily pass as a troll thread. So no, if someone started a new thread posing this question again, the fact that it had already been asked would be the least of its problems.

Again, no one is forcing you to read this. You, are not the arbiter of what threads are valid, and feel free to use the ignore this topic button.

 

And while I don't think phaser patrol is better, it does have some things that star raiders does not. Unexplored sectors, exploding torpedoes, and target lock with seeking torpedoes to mention a few.

 

I also appreciate that one hit with no shields doesn't necessarily kill you. It causes damage certainly, but doesn't automatically end your game.

 

No more needs to be said. We can all go back to discussing something that XylonBane approves of.

Edited September 9, 2015 by p.opus

[sloth-machine]

My main complaint with Starmaster is the same with Robot Tank. If an enemy is away from your field of vision, they do not exist. At least Star Raiders on the 2600 had full 360 combat making the dogfights much more intense. This is the sole reason I don't like either Starmaster or Robot Tank, totally kills the gameplay for me making for dull combat, give me 2600 Battlezone instead of Robot Tank. Star Raiders on the 2600 is not that bad, I had fun with it. It's fitting for a 2600 console port.

[p.opus]

My main complaint with Starmaster is the same with Robot Tank. If an enemy is away from your field of vision, they do not exist. At least Star Raiders on the 2600 had full 360 combat making the dogfights much more intense. This is the sole reason I don't like either Starmaster or Robot Tank, totally kills the gameplay for me making for dull combat, give me 2600 Battlezone instead of Robot Tank. Star Raiders on the 2600 is not that bad, I had fun with it. It's fitting for a 2600 console port.

I never noticed that on Starmaster, but now that you mention it that's so true. In Robot Tank, however, it was painfully obvious. One of the suggested strategies from Activision was to put the enemy behind you to keep it from firing at you....Whaaaaaa!!!???

 

My biggest beef with 2600 Star Raiders was the neutering of the galactic map down to one starbase one fleet. Makes the whole idea of hyperwarp kind of pointless. Plus the fleet was moving towards your starbase while you were actively fighting. How could the enemy and you move between sectors DURING combat but needed to hyperwarp when not in combat. That killed the whole suspension of disbelief for me.

Edited September 9, 2015 by p.opus

[Trinity]

@Ketah

 

Never took offense. In fact my response was on a mobile phone, (which explains some of the bad grammar and misspellings....stupid predictive text...) and I don't remember seeing the last response as being so old. I had found the thread when I was looking up some information of Phaser Patrol, since I now have a Harmony Cart, and wanted to know if Phaser Patrol had multiple difficulties...(which I found out in the HTML docs located here, thanks a ton to whoever wrote that up).

 

It is funny looking back nearly 35 years ago, how different our perspective is. Case in point. Defender is now crucified because Stargate came out in 84. So the fact that Stargate was one of the last gasp cartridges of the system, it makes the orignal Defender that came out in 81 garbage? I remember having a ball playing that game, and still do. We tend to look at the entire body of work on the 2600 and criticize the early games because they were written on cartridges with less ROM.

 

In Atari: Game Over, HSW basically told the bosses that Star Castle could NOT be done. Well, two version of Star Castle are currently available via home brew. So it CAN be done. But it couldn't be done withing the ROM limitations that HSW was given at the time.

 

Phaser Patrol is clearly the superior 2600 "star raiders" but only due to the advantages provided by the supercharger cart. Starmaster game me moments of the same terror I had playing the 8bit version of Star Raiders, but it did not come close to the immersion factor I had when I had to bring up a clearly damaged long range scanner and try to determine which of the two mirror images of my starbase was the real one. And how to use the long range scanner to actually line up with base. I still get a real kick playing that game, and it's played more often than some of the more modern games I have on my Alienware Alpha I have.

 

@Zylonbane: I don't remember tying you up and forcing you to read this thread with Beethoven's Fifth playing in the background. . I must have blacked out....

 

 

 

[Trinity]

Even better...

 

[p.opus]

 

 

@Zylonbane: I don't remember tying you up and forcing you to read this thread with Beethoven's Fifth playing in the background. . I must have blacked out....

 

Uhh...it was Beethovens 9th. Epic Fail (facepalm)....my apologies to Alex and the rest of his droogs.......But thanks to Trinity for all the beautiful music :-)

[sloth-machine]

My biggest beef with 2600 Star Raiders was the neutering of the galactic map down to one starbase one fleet. Makes the whole idea of hyperwarp kind of pointless. Plus the fleet was moving towards your starbase while you were actively fighting. How could the enemy and you move between sectors DURING combat but needed to hyperwarp when not in combat. That killed the whole suspension of disbelief for me.

 

Yep, that's the BIG flaw. The 2600 Star Raider galactic map has NO strategy... based on a game that is nothing but strategy. Here, the starbase cannot be saved, hyperwarp or no hyperwarp. Just one fleet (why?) that cannot be stopped, and only destroyed AFTER your starbase is gone, also makes the keypad pointless. That was pretty bad...BUT, it made for some nice visual flair. It did help enhance the 'feeling' of controlling a starship back then for those who only had a 2600. Switching to the map and kicking it into hyperwarp like I was in Star Trek was amusing. I had no way of convincing my parents to get a computer back then since I was really young, so this game did it's job. Even though it was just a glorified Star Voyager.

Edited September 9, 2015 by sloth-machine