Nintendo Innovations in Controllers!

[MaDDuck]

Hey Guyz....

 

I was talking games with a friend and started going down the list of Nintendo Innovations in controllers.

 

1. The first home system (N64) to have 4 player support since the Atari 5200

 

2. Analog and digital on the same controller (N64)

 

3. Shoulder buttons (SNES)

 

4. Memory card socket in controller (N64)

 

5. Force feedback (N64)

 

6. A controller where you move with the left hand and shoot with the right (Game and Watch on up!)

 

7. First party wireless support, and it works! (Wavebird)

 

 

Do you see the trend? Is there any current system, Wii excluded, that doesn't have any or all of those?

 

Did I miss any?

[+kisrael]

I could nitpick but your list is pretty solid. I mean, do most systems have #4? And I'd call #5 "rumble"... I don't think we've seen a true force feedback on a console yet, just some gimmicky PC sticks.

 

There are some GBA games that predate stuff you later see on the Wii, tilt and tumble Wario Ware Twisted's thing...

 

And then there's the DS... which revived the microphone, and the touch screen was world's better than game.com, but Palm pilots have had them all along...

[MaDDuck]

I could nitpick but your list is pretty solid. I mean, do most systems have #4? And I'd call #5 "rumble"... I don't think we've seen a true force feedback on a console yet, just some gimmicky PC sticks.

 

There are some GBA games that predate stuff you later see on the Wii, tilt and tumble Wario Ware Twisted's thing...

 

And then there's the DS... which revived the microphone, and the touch screen was world's better than game.com, but Palm pilots have had them all along...

 

 

Good point in #4

It seems that memory cards in controllers reached full maturity with the Dreamcast (VMU's rock!) XBOX used them and I *think* the 360 uses them too, but I'm not sure as I've never touched a 360 controller!!

 

Excellent point with the gameboy stuff!

 

And I'd like to add the controller mounted microphone of Hey You Pikachu!(N64)

[snorlaxnut]

1. The first home system (N64) to have 4 player support since the Atari 5200

 

I thought the first system after Atari 5200, with 4 player support, was the NES (even though 4 player support didn't come out until a few years after the system's US launch).

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NES_Four_Score

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NES_Satellite

[Jess Ragan]

Don't forget the crosskey, one of the most important innovations ever to be introduced to a game controller. Just imagine how horrible life would be for gamers without it!

 

(And if you CAN'T imagine it, pick up a ColecoVision or 5200 controller. You'll understand why a directional pad is so important)

 

JR

[JB]

1. The first home system (N64) to have 4 player support since the Atari 5200

 

I thought the first system after Atari 5200, with 4 player support, was the NES (even though 4 player support didn't come out until a few years after the system's US launch).

I think he meant integrated 4-player support.

 

 

Don't forget the crosskey, one of the most important innovations ever to be introduced to a game controller. Just imagine how horrible life would be for gamers without it!

You mean, we might still get proper joysticks?

[thomasholzer]

Number 6 is not really an innovation, but just the 'right' way for Japanese players, but the wrong way for Western players.

[Lord Helmet]

They were also the first with a power glove...

[Jess Ragan]

That would be Mattel's invention, not Nintendo's.

 

JR

[Gabriel]

1. The first home system (N64) to have 4 player support since the Atari 5200

 

In other words, this was an Atari innovation, not a Nintendo one.

 

2. Analog and digital on the same controller (N64)

 

I think the 5200 controllers qualify with analog stick and digital buttons. In fact, just about any controller with a analog stick or a track ball and a button would qualify.

 

If you're talking about directionals, then the 5200 still qualifies because Frogger uses the digital keypad for directionals.

 

3. Shoulder buttons (SNES)

 

Buttons on the edge of controllers were invented with the Intellivision.

 

4. Memory card socket in controller (N64)

 

OK. True enough. Good thing that innovation went the way of the dodo.

 

5. Force feedback (N64)

 

I don't know who, but I know this was invented before the N64 controler.

 

6. A controller where you move with the left hand and shoot with the right (Game and Watch on up!)

 

Considering your other "innovations" then this is also one where just about any other company qualifies. An Atari 2600 stick could be easily converted to left handed use. Not only that, but there were numerous controllers designed for right and left handed players.

 

7. First party wireless support, and it works! (Wavebird)

 

You qualify it with "first party". It isn't really an innovation if someone else does it first, and wireless controllers were old hat long before the wavebird.

 

So, it isn't really that Nintendo has ever really innovated. It's just that they take credit for other people and warp the historical account either through lies or funky language to qualify their "innovations".

[128bytes]

Nintendo was also first with motion sensitive controllers embedded in the game cartridge - tilt with Kirby Tilt 'n' Tumble for the GBC, and twist with WarioWare Twisted for the GBA.

[JB]

2. Analog and digital on the same controller (N64)

 

I think the 5200 controllers qualify with analog stick and digital buttons. In fact, just about any controller with a analog stick or a track ball and a button would qualify.

 

If you're talking about directionals, then the 5200 still qualifies because Frogger uses the digital keypad for directionals.

And you and I both now that the number pad was never intended as a directional control.

 

I'd bounce this one more on the basis of digital directionals seemed like they was going to be the primary input method for a long time. Removing them wasn't an option yet(arguably still isn't. They had to add it back to the 'Cube after their d-padless prototype got them yelled at, and even the Wii has a d-pad).

 

 

3. Shoulder buttons (SNES)

 

Buttons on the edge of controllers were invented with the Intellivision.

But that's not really the same thing as shoulder buttons, since the INTV used those as the primary action buttons, not secondary options. They're also not in even remotely the same location or usage pattern.

 

Could try the plethora of triggers on Coleco's Super Action controller. That's more valid.

 

7. First party wireless support, and it works! (Wavebird)

 

You qualify it with "first party". It isn't really an innovation if someone else does it first, and wireless controllers were old hat long before the wavebird.

And Atari did it on the 2600.

 

So, it isn't really that Nintendo has ever really innovated. It's just that they take credit for other people and warp the historical account either through lies or funky language to qualify their "innovations".

Sometimes they do actually innovate.

Other times, they're just the ones responsible for resurrecting a long-dead concept that no one else was willing to revisit.

[MaDDuck]

WOW I learned a lot of information!

Such as numbers are for moving

shoulders are on the side

And Atari was the Mfgr behind those big nasty wireless controllers. I had a set back in the day, and I do not remember an atari logo on them.

 

And I'm also reminded that all you have to do is modify at Atari stock controller to be exactly like a NES controller.

 

I have an OLD issue of next Gen magazine (back when it was good) and they show a huge flight stick with true force feedback. It never came to fruition. Who came out with force feedback for a home system first? I forget.

 

Also the control key (+ pad) was the key to video game control

Edited December 20, 2006 by MaDDuck

[JB]

And Atari was the Mfgr behind those big nasty wireless controllers. I had a set back in the day, and I do not remember an atari logo on them.

http://www.atariage.com/controller_page.ht...ControllerID=27

 

Apology accepted.

 

Also the control key (+ pad) was the key to video game control

Provided you wanted to hold a single direction for an extended period.

The d-pad is great for Super Mario.

It's less than great for Legend of Zelda.

 

I believe that all input devices have their place.

The d-pad is superior to the joystick in SOME games. But hardly all.

 

 

And I'll grant that the cross key works a hell of a lot better than the INTV pad, though this has a lot more to do with the internal construction than the external shape or number of switches.

[+kisrael]

So, it isn't really that Nintendo has ever really innovated. It's just that they take credit for other people and warp the historical account either through lies or funky language to qualify their "innovations".

The language doesn't have to get that funky to give props to Nintendo for setting new standards that were widely copied by everyone else! I think many of the examples you dug up were far more of a stretch.... most of those have been discussed here already...

 

Actually, let me clean up some of the concepts:

Here's the original list:

1. The first home system (N64) to have 4 player support since the Atari 5200

2. Analog and digital on the same controller (N64)

3. Shoulder buttons (SNES)

4. Memory card socket in controller (N64)

5. Force feedback (N64)

6. A controller where you move with the left hand and shoot with the right (Game and Watch on up!)

7. First party wireless support, and it works! (Wavebird)

 

So: I think 1 is legit. yes there were multitaps, and yes Atari fooled with it in a halfhearted way for a while and then gave up on it, but in terms of making it common again that's Nintendo. So:

(A) 4 Player Support as Standard [N64]

 

I'd say the next thing is:

(B) games you control with both thumbs, rather than a stick you grasp and use your wrist for. [GW]

 

We've talked about some of the pros and cons of D-pads (diagonols, definite con) but still, using your thumb is both quicker than many large sticks, and allows for longer gaming sessions with less fatigue. And really, this is all Nintendo for the modern era. (except maybe for Intellivision which I'll discuss below.

 

So from (B), with all the thumbness, came

© Shoulder buttons [sNES]

Shoulder buttons only really make sense when it's an all thumbs world, ala TurboGrafx, Genesis, PSX, Xbox, etc etc... in otherwords, the NES on up, and it seems like SNES did it first: your thumbs are primary, but we'll give index fingers something to do as well.

 

So then came

(D) Analog thumb sticks [N64]

Again, this is kind of dependent on (B), that we're using thumbs for almost everything. (And the funny thing about that, on the N64, is that they say the N64 controller is really a 3D0 prototype design that never made it to market... so again, Nintendo is the company to run with an idea, even if the "mad scientist" was somewhere else)

 

So here's a thought about Intellivision: in weird ways, they were like a bad, hard-to-use prototype for

(B) © and (D)! Turn the thing sideways, make the keypad a little more action-buttony, and make the disk as senstive as it looks (rather than, what, 16 directions?) and you kind of have that all-thumbs, shoulder-buttoned, analog-ish (personally I think all angles is more important to analog control than amount of push) controller. As it was, eh, who knows. Maybe you could call those crappy buttons "shoulder" buttons, but then maybe so is the Epyx 500XJ with its trigger finger button on the side... like I said, you kind of need a "both thumbs otherwise busy" world for shoulder buttons to mean anything.

 

FWIW, I think numberpads were a bad idea. They're so clunky, you can't make good use of them quickly in a game... so basically, you use them for menus... they're kind of a hack for when game systems didn't present attractive menus. So why didn't Nitendo et al use em? Well because of:

 

(E) A standard Pause button (and a menu therein) [NES]

 

Funnily enough, it seems to be the Wii that most violates this rule these days...only the Home button is standard, and most games don't put a "end just this game" option there, there's only "full reset"

 

(F) Rumble [N64]

Now it's weird, because Nintendo's Rumble is pluggable only; maybe Sony should be given credit for wiring it into the controller, though it seems a little obvious. I'm going to go ahead then and say:

 

(G) Controllers with pluggable parts. [N64]

Now that's going out on the same limb as "4. Memory card socket in controller", because despite being an interesting idea, it seems to have died out... or has it? DreamCast had it with the VMU. Xbox even has memory card slots (I had to check). And I think it's reasonable to say that the Wii has it too with the nunchuck! So while it hasn't become the standard that, say, analog thumbsticks have, its a cool idea that has staying power. (Some systems (3DO?) used daisy chaining, which... I dunnno. It's kind of like (A), maybe, and kind of like (G), but not quite either.

 

and finally, and this arguable, both in importance, and in how widely copied it is, but:

(H) Analog Trigger w/ Click [GC]

Oh, and

(I) Buttons arranged to make an alternate crosspad [sNES]

I think (I) is kind of funny... it let Robotron-derived games like "Smash TV" work, and set half the stage for dual-shock double analog control.

 

So I'd say that's that. Every generation of Nintendo stuff, except maybe the GB and GBA, brought something new to the table. I'm sure some might disagree with some of my interpretations, but I think it's a more solid and easy to defend list than the original.

 

Other companies innovated as well:

* Double Analog control [dualshock]

* Rumble built-in [dualshock]

* Push-in Analog sticks [dualshock]

* Trigger style shoulder buttons [DC]

 

but still, I'd say Nintendo has done the most to popularize original ideas.

[JB]

So here's a thought about Intellivision: in weird ways, they were like a bad, hard-to-use prototype for

(B) © and (D)! Turn the thing sideways, make the keypad a little more action-buttony, and make the disk as senstive as it looks (rather than, what, 16 directions?) and you kind of have that all-thumbs, shoulder-buttoned, analog-ish (personally I think all angles is more important to analog control than amount of push) controller. As it was, eh, who knows.

Yah, the INTV disk is 8-sensor, 16-way.

And I agree that angle is more important than travel on small analog devices, as well as the INTV controller was incredibly innovative.

 

FWIW, I think numberpads were a bad idea. They're so clunky, you can't make good use of them quickly in a game... so basically, you use them for menus... they're kind of a hack for when game systems didn't present attractive menus.

And even then, rarely used to a signifigant degree.

 

So why didn't Nitendo et al use em? Well because of:

 

(E) A standard Pause button (and a menu therein) [NES]

I don't think it was start/pause that did it, as much as increasing game size making on-screen menus plausable. The pause menu wouldn't become common until much later, though 5200 had a standardized pause button first.

 

You can actually see Nintendo not thinking ahead on the menu issue.

Look at the select button. It was rarely used after the first generation or 2.

Once people realized the directional control moved the cursor more effectively than the select button(you can back up if you pass your menu entry!), it was largely abandoned.

When it WAS used, it was in a manner that would've better been suited to a 3rd action button, a la the Genesis pad(which, from a capability standpoint, is just an NES pad reorganized for button access).

 

 

The 5200 and INTV(ColecoVision? Haven't used one in ages) were the first systems to have intelligible on-screen menus. But they failed to make that leap to directional/action-button control, and required you to use the keypad to type in your game settings(INTV) or step through options sequentially a la the VCS(5200 * and #).

 

The NES gets the gold in the menu department, even if it was realized too late to spare us from a superfluous button that just... won't... DIE!

Seriously, why is select still present on the PS3 and XBox 360?

 

 

(I) Buttons arranged to make an alternate crosspad [sNES]

I think (I) is kind of funny... it let Robotron-derived games like "Smash TV" work, and set half the stage for dual-shock double analog control.

The SNES button diamond isn't regularly shaped, though. It's wider than it is tall, making it somewhat awkward as a second d-pad.

 

HOWEVER... You bring up an interesting point, and lead us to Nintendo's red-headed(literally!) stepchild.

Twin directional controls first appeared on the Virtual Boy!

 

 

* Trigger style shoulder buttons [DC]

Saturn, actually.

The Dreamcast pad is basically a Saturn analog pad(AKA 3D pad, AKA Nights controller) with 2 buttons missing and N64-style expansion slots.

[thomasholzer]

Atari didn't fool around with the 4 player hardware with the 5200, the 800 had it already in the 70s

[warmachine]

doesn't the vectrex have an analog thumbstick.

If you were holding it in your hands, you would use

your thumb to to move the stick, right.

[jbanes]

And the funny thing about that, on the N64, is that they say the N64 controller is really a 3D0 prototype design that never made it to market... so again, Nintendo is the company to run with an idea, even if the "mad scientist" was somewhere else

This is actually an urban legend, possibly started by the M2 fans of the time. The M2 (the next 3DO console) had a screw-in thumbstick for the D-Pad, similar to the CX-78 Joypad that shipped with the Euro 7800.

 

There are some great pictures of the prototype controller here: http://www.ptop.aborman.com/index.php?opti...6&Itemid=29

 

With the Stick:

 

Without the Stick:

[+kisrael]

And I agree that angle is more important than travel on small analog devices, as well as the INTV controller was incredibly innovative.

Which didn't stop it from sucking horribly. IMO. Besides the general ergonomic, they discs had the opposite problem of a gamepad: it was too tough to get exact N/E/S/W movement, vs the diags on th crosspad.

 

(E) A standard Pause button (and a menu therein) [NES]

I don't think it was start/pause that did it, as much as increasing game size making on-screen menus plausable. The pause menu wouldn't become common until much later, though 5200 had a standardized pause button first.

And not just plausible, but desireable. Prior to Nintendo most menus were just at the start (and horibbly done from a visual standpoint for both Intellivision and Colecovision... I guess ROM was still very very scarce...)

 

You can actually see Nintendo not thinking ahead on the menu issue.

Look at the select button. It was rarely used after the first generation or 2.

Once people realized the directional control moved the cursor more effectively than the select button(you can back up if you pass your menu entry!), it was largely abandoned.

When it WAS used, it was in a manner that would've better been suited to a 3rd action button, a la the Genesis pad(which, from a capability standpoint, is just an NES pad reorganized for button access).

The NES gets the gold in the menu department, even if it was realized too late to spare us from a superfluous button that just... won't... DIE!

Seriously, why is select still present on the PS3 and XBox 360?

Good point, esp. about the oddness of "select" on the NES.

And the Wii doesn't have it Select. It doesn't even have a consistent pause menu button! ... "home" always brings you to a menu, but only can reset the game, not stop the current match.

And I just found out Monkey Ball is a terrible offender. There *is* a poorly adhered to convention that plus will bring you to an ingame menu, but in Monkey Ball you have to press and hold. That's inexcusable. The (+) isn't going to be accidentally pressed, and buttons should react instantly, not after you press long again to say that you *really* mean it...

 

(I) Buttons arranged to make an alternate crosspad [sNES]

I think (I) is kind of funny... it let Robotron-derived games like "Smash TV" work, and set half the stage for dual-shock double analog control.

The SNES button diamond isn't regularly shaped, though. It's wider than it is tall, making it somewhat awkward as a second d-pad.

Hmm, I never noticed. I always thought it worked fine as a D-pad...

Some SNES went crazy with the buttons, here I'm thinking of Super Mario World... too many functions.

 

* Trigger style shoulder buttons [DC]

Saturn, actually.

The Dreamcast pad is basically a Saturn analog pad(AKA 3D pad, AKA Nights controller) with 2 buttons missing and N64-style expansion slots.

oh, right. Though I'm never sure whether to assign first party, non-original release controllers to the system, or their own thing. (Like the dualshock, which did bring some new stuff to the table, as opposed to the original dogbone controller, which was just the SNES pad with grips and too damn many shoulder buttons.)

[+kisrael]

Atari didn't fool around with the 4 player hardware with the 5200, the 800 had it already in the 70s

Well of course, 5200 was just kind a repackeged 800, wasn't it?

 

AND..... but what did they DO with the 4 ports?

Seriously, how many 4 player early Atari games can you name? Either by Atari, or someone else, and besides "Warlords"?

 

I know there was Dandy Dungeon that inspired Gauntlet... and...I dunno, maybe some other ones from APX?

 

And Atari "knew" about the fun of multiplayer games... I'd still like to try the old Tank 8 (well technically Kee Games) but I have tried a Sprint 4...

 

Atari just didn't "get it" though. Maybe they assumed all home gaming was single or two player, and no one would bring 2 or 3 friends over.

[+kisrael]

doesn't the vectrex have an analog thumbstick.

If you were holding it in your hands, you would use

your thumb to to move the stick, right.

No, it would slip....the top is too small and slippery. I think 90% of people playing vectrex use a pincer grip. Just like the old Amiga Powersticks.

[+kisrael]

And the funny thing about that, on the N64, is that they say the N64 controller is really a 3D0 prototype design that never made it to market... so again, Nintendo is the company to run with an idea, even if the "mad scientist" was somewhere else

This is actually an urban legend, possibly started by the M2 fans of the time. The M2 (the next 3DO console) had a screw-in thumbstick for the D-Pad, similar to the CX-78 Joypad that shipped with the Euro 7800.

There are some great pictures of the prototype controller here: http://www.ptop.aborman.com/index.php?opti...6&Itemid=29

 

With the Stick:

 

Without the Stick:

Oh really? Huh.

Hey, anyone remember that old "best console controller ever" tourney thread(s)? That's where I heard about this prototype (which here looks like that USB Gravis pad for PC that had the same thing) and I *thought* it linked to some pictures that made a stronger argument than these... I couldn't find the thread though, or the pictures...

[Atarifever]

[

 

7. First party wireless support, and it works! (Wavebird)

 

You qualify it with "first party". It isn't really an innovation if someone else does it first, and wireless controllers were old hat long before the wavebird.

 

Old crappy hat though. The wavebird was the first good one for a console. I mean, I love my Genesis, and I play with the wireless controllers because, like the Powerglove, they're so bad, but still, line of sight wireless is hardly good for videogaming.

 

I'm of the opinion that innovation can also mean bringing something back in a new way or giving something that failed a mainstream chance. People like to point out that Nintendo didn't invent analog, but then, weren't they considered a horrible thing by people talking about some of the most flawed controllers ever? Then wasn't Nintendo's getting it right years after it was first done and abandoned an innovation? The way people refute the touch screen on the DS as innovative is even sillier. Because the Game.com had one and became a laughing stock or because you can use it for PDA solitare doesn't make it less innovative when Nintendo takes a huge risk in their main market by making it a standard feature of their much hyped system. Also, when was the last time you thought seriously about motion sensitive controllers before the Wii? Just because some company made 2 games that used a motion sensing controller for the computer doesn't make it not innovative for a company to design a system around that type of technology. Innovation is doing something in new and exciting ways. Just because the Wright Brothers pulled off heavier than air flight, doesn't mean the Stealth Bomber isn't innovative.

[thomasholzer]

best Nintendo innovation:

Re-packing the same old game over and over and selling it to the punters, that's genius actually