ColecoVision Flashback System

[Bill Loguidice]

Suprisingly I actually got incredibly far in Oils Well which was the big test for me. Had a hard time with Smurf Rescue but played well in Venture and Zaxxon. I dearly wish Lady Bug was on this console. Heist is unplayable for me.

 

Smurf's Rescue? And yeah, The Heist runs at roughly half speed, which is a terrible oversight.

[S1500]

 

It's my understanding the unreleased original controller spinner is the same spinner found on the Super Action Controllers, and the same way the driving controller and trackball work. So any games that support those should in theory support that. Flipper Slipper is not one of them.

 

All I know is that the spinner works in reverse, and with way less sensitivity than needed in Turbo + Super Action Controller. You have to fling it like mad to steer.

[Bill Loguidice]

 

All I know is that the spinner works in reverse, and with way less sensitivity than needed in Turbo + Super Action Controller. You have to fling it like mad to steer.

 

I always liked the steering wheel and roller controller, but was never a fan of the spinner on the Super Action Controller. It always seemed like a complete waste of a feature since it was only used for running in sports games (I can't recall any other usage) and even then only really worked when spun like mad. It's a shame it wasn't more sensitive like the roller controller as it would have made a fantastic paddle game controller that would have at least benefited us in the homebrew era. I can only assume it was included because it was supported in the original design and made for a simple addition that could make it seem like you were doing something unique in sports games (which I guess you were, but still).

[Flojomojo]

It will be difficult to know the real engineering reason behind the decision, but I like the theory that the designer didn't know how to hold the ColecoVision controller he had in his possession. The theory goes that he assumed it was thumb operated, which is why some people seem to like to use the ColecoVision Flashback controllers like that, since that's how he more or less designed it to be used. In fact, if you go with that idea, that's where the shorter shaft makes the most sense, since I think it's more or less accepted (and has been my direct experience) the longer the shaft (to a point of course), the more precise the control.

I think you nailed it. Even as a kid, I always liked to use my thumbs to drive the stiff Atari stick, the loose Odyssey 2 stick, the Intellivision disc, and on the rare times I got to play it, the Colecovision mushroom. I was super-pleased when the NES thumb-centric controllers came out. I think they're the best way to control many of these games.

 

That's probably the reason for the choice of controls on the Colecovision-compatible DINA console, along with "value engineering" as previously discussed.

 

[freewheel]

 

I can't stand that thumb grip and still use the three finger pinch grip like I do on real ColecoVison controllers. I could probably learn to deal with the discomfort of the shorter shaft if these were precise, but no matter how I hold it, I can't consistently hit certain directions, particularly diagonals.

 

Of course, I'm of the impression that I'm in the majority in terms of my feelings about these controllers. If I'm in the minority, then perhaps I won't be so insistent with my recommendations about a redesign. Maybe a poll of some type is in order?

 

I'd say that there are two differing "arguments" here, and I don't think there are two mutually exclusive camps representing them. I sit firmly in both, myself:

 

1. If they're gonna keep the design close to the original console, then I say go all out, and re-create it as close as possible.

 

2. If they're gonna make "easier" controls - then go with a ball knob on a longer post, a true stick, or just do a thumbpad.

 

I haven't tried the FB yet, but I suspect that in many ways all they've done is created something that pleases no one. It's still uncomfortable (for many of us) like the original CV controller, but it's not as precise and usable as you would like. So it's really needing a re-design, period.

 

[dashv]

While you're 100% correct that every penny saved can translate to big money with mass market products (and that's always been the case; Boisy Pitre and I detail that very process in our book on the Color Computer, "CoCo: The Colorful History of Tandy's Underdog Computer"), since I've had a ringside seat to the goings on, I can say that it really was a "simple" oversight not to make them cross compatible. Without that clear direction at the engineering company, it indeed worked out like you said where savings ruled the day to make a functional, reminiscent controller. With that said, I think it's fair to say that for all of their faults, AtGames can make good quality controllers, having done so with the Atari, Sega, and Intellivision systems. I'll do everything I can to encourage a redesign for any future ColecoVision-related products so that side can receive a similar benefit. Personally, it's the one I'm most disappointed in as an original ColecoVision owner and a fan to this day.

 

In regards to your last point, despite the controversy with Hyperkin's RetroN 5, the product itself is brilliant. It would be stunning to have a classic version of that that did Atari 2600, Intellivision, and ColecoVision (and whatever else pre-Crash they could make work), but as you say, the belief is that the market is too small. I sincerely wish it wasn't (or at least the perception wasn't there), particularly with how much I admire how the RetroN 5 works.

Yes to all.

 

Like you I question if it's a truth or just a perception.

 

The logic is incredibly strange regarding going back that far (atari 2600, coleco, etc.)

 

On the one hand I often hear the argument "not enough interest and too little profit to be had." On the other hand every system since the Sega Genesis and Nintendo Entertainment system days has had ports and remakes of atari classics. A handful have had intellivision and coleco collections released as well.

 

That includes releases for Playstation, N64, PS2, PS3 and over the last decade this flood of emulator and system on a chip clones of particular consoles.

 

Love them or hate them. I agree that Hyperkin has proven you can get away with selling compatible hardware without games and let folks bring their own games to the table. But you need to make sure you support a wide range of games and peripherals. Just NES or Sega Genesis is not enough and the compatibility absolutely has to be there.

 

One system that took carts for ColecoVision, the various Atari variants, and Intellevision would be pretty cool and would probably sell for $100. I know I'd buy one. Especially if all my old controllers and carts worked with it.

 

Just please check the licenses on any emulators used to develop it and ensure the authors are getting credited/compensated appropriately.

Edited October 3, 2014 by dashv

[ataridave]

I got the Colecovision Flashback last week, and it love it! But I'd really like to know what kind of controllers you can plug into the ports at the front of the system. Because I tried a Genesis controller, and it didn't work.

[Andromeda Stardust]

I think you nailed it. Even as a kid, I always liked to use my thumbs to drive the stiff Atari stick, the loose Odyssey 2 stick, the Intellivision disc, and on the rare times I got to play it, the Colecovision mushroom. I was super-pleased when the NES thumb-centric controllers came out. I think they're the best way to control many of these games.

 

That's probably the reason for the choice of controls on the Colecovision-compatible DINA console, along with "value engineering" as previously discussed.

 

Honestly, I don[t have a lot of nostalgia for the original console as I've never played it, but IMO the ideal CV controller would be something like an NES controller in the ergonomics department. A lot of old consoles had poor controller designs from an ergonomic viewpoint. Think like how they used on those old calculator watches, a miniaturized 12-button keypad in the middle replacing START/SELECT on the NES controller. Even with my adult man thumbs, I can push tiny buttons with accuracy if timing isn't critical. Seems they were mostly used for menu selection anyway and rarely more than five options.

[Flojomojo]

I got the Colecovision Flashback last week, and it love it! But I'd really like to know what kind of controllers you can plug into the ports at the front of the system. Because I tried a Genesis controller, and it didn't work.

You can plug the ColecoVision Flashback controllers into the ColecoVision Flashback, and that's it.

 

Think like how they used on those old calculator watches, a miniaturized 12-button keypad in the middle replacing START/SELECT on the NES controller. Even with my adult man thumbs, I can push tiny buttons with accuracy if timing isn't critical. Seems they were mostly used for menu selection anyway and rarely more than five options.

[Andromeda Stardust]

You can plug the ColecoVision Flashback controllers into the ColecoVision Flashback, and that's it.

 

Jag controllers will also do but they are bulky as hell. I was looking for something a little more streamlined.

[Flojomojo]

I have a Colecovision emulator on my Dingoo and Shield handhelds. I mapped button 1 to the L trigger and button 2 to the R trigger. I mostly like the arcade ports, so that's all I really need.

[thegamezmaster]

I thought Smurf Rescue wasn't on it. Yes or no?

[Bill Loguidice]

Smurf Rescue is not on it, hence the "?"

[freewheel]

One system that took carts for ColecoVision, the various Atari variants, and Intellevision would be pretty cool and would probably sell for $100. I know I'd buy one. Especially if all my old controllers and carts worked with it.

 

I would LOVE for this to happen. It would give us somewhere to finally dump all the millions of Combat and Asteroids and Donkey Kong and Night Stalker carts that are sitting as spares in everyone's collection.

 

I just don't see it happening though. As much as it seems hard to believe, you've gotta remember that the NES/SNES/Genesis outsold things like the INTV and CV by a factor of 20 or even 30 to 1. Gaming just wasn't anywhere near as popular in the early 80s as it became less than a decade later. The 2600 is really the only high selling console of its day (by modern standards) and that's why there have been a hundred Atari FB variants. Hell, let's just look at otherwise commercial flops (or at least, certainly were never household names) that outsold the INTV/CV by large margins - Sega Dreamcast, Sega Saturn, Sega Master System - notice the trend here - TG-16. Hell the 7800 outsold both of them, albeit just barely, and the only people who remember the 7800 these days are all on this forum

 

Most of the Atari-era crowd also played NES/etc. But most of the NES-era kids never played Atari. You're talking an order of magnitude difference in the audiences.

[dashv]

I would LOVE for this to happen. It would give us somewhere to finally dump all the millions of Combat and Asteroids and Donkey Kong and Night Stalker carts that are sitting as spares in everyone's collection.

 

I just don't see it happening though. As much as it seems hard to believe, you've gotta remember that the NES/SNES/Genesis outsold things like the INTV and CV by a factor of 20 or even 30 to 1. Gaming just wasn't anywhere near as popular in the early 80s as it became less than a decade later. The 2600 is really the only high selling console of its day (by modern standards) and that's why there have been a hundred Atari FB variants. Hell, let's just look at otherwise commercial flops (or at least, certainly were never household names) that outsold the INTV/CV by large margins - Sega Dreamcast, Sega Saturn, Sega Master System - notice the trend here - TG-16. Hell the 7800 outsold both of them, albeit just barely, and the only people who remember the 7800 these days are all on this forum

 

Most of the Atari-era crowd also played NES/etc. But most of the NES-era kids never played Atari. You're talking an order of magnitude difference in the audiences.

Very good points. I agree.

[NIAD]

BTW, what's up with the "spinner" contacts on the old controller circuit boards?

The original design of the Coleco Hand Controller included a spinner wheel built-in under the keypad, but this design was scrapped and no prototypes have ever been found. The spinner wheel was then moved above the keypad between the two firebuttons and one working prototype has been found... and it works great!!! Shortly before the final design was settled on, the Spinner Wheel was removed most likely as a cost cutting measure as well as to make it a unique feature of the Super Action Controller, which more than likely was already on the drawing board.

 

There is no definitive number, but a fair amount of the Hand Controller PCB with the Spinner Wheel circuit were produced and instead of wasting money and junking them, they were used in production units and numerous people have reported as to having such a PCB. Of course, after these PCBs were used up, the PCB without the Spinner Wheel circuit would have been the norm.

 

The Spinner Wheel on the SACs can be used for driving games such as Turbo, but as far as I recall from trying it in the past, it's not ideal.

 

The pic of the three HC PCBs below shows the design without the Spinner (left), the Spinner circuit marked out on the PCB (middle) and finally the Spinner circuit complete with components (right).

[freewheel]

Stupid question, but has anyone hacked a spinner into a controller? If you have the traces on a lot of boards, it doesn't look like much more is needed. A couple of extra diodes and whatever is on top? Not that there's much point if it just behaves like the SAC spinner...

[5200Fanatic]

Overall, I like this little console. While these type of consoles often drop significantly in price eventually, I like to buy at release if for no other reason to support the effort. I was never a big fan of the Colecovision controllers, and these being a little smaller and the plastic not being so hard make them seem more comfortable.

Edited October 4, 2014 by 5200Fanatic

[Kamshaft]

Can some pm me where to buy the system in Canada? Plz

[Manoau2002]

Can some pm me where to buy the system in Canada? Plz

No where. It's USA only so far. Some people have bought them from the Toys R Us us site and got them shipped to Canada. Didn't work for me. There are a few on eBay as well if you feel like paying up. I will wait till there is either a Canadian source or people start selling them at retail price on eBay.

[ColecoDan]

Can some pm me where to buy the system in Canada? Plz

sell your house move to the US and you can buy whatever you want.

[retroillucid]

sell your house move to the US and you can buy whatever you want.

I'm seriously thinking about this

[thegamezmaster]

None at DG around me. TRU had 3 left. Two had outer box damage and the third had the seal broken and looked like it had been returned. So I passed. Good idea or bad?

[Andromeda Stardust]

Hi

 

Just wanted to say they have these at Family Dollar in the Cincinnati area, Thought that was interesting considering all the stuff going on between Family Dollar and Dollar General. At my local store I counted seven for sale.

 

Forrest

Is the version being sold at Family Dollar the 61 game DG-exclusive, or does it only have 60 games like the TRU model?

[thevnaguy]

Is the version being sold at Family Dollar the 61 game DG-exclusive, or does it only have 60 games like the TRU model?

its the 60 game version, I saw them this week at Family Dollar.