Edladdin Colecovision Controller Kickstarter now LIVE!

[Hastor]

Nevermind, finally found the past with my answer! Also ordered a standard CV version for multiplayer, not sure about the wait on that, but looking forward to it!

[edladdin]

Hello!

 

Sorry I missed your other requests... Where did you post?

 

For the benefit of the group, the power switch on the back of the Super Arcade Controller Plus solved a weird problem we discovered in the development process. The short(ish) summary... Internally, CV controllers are split into two main circuits - the joystick + button 1 on one leg, button 2-4 + the keypad on the other. The array of 16 diodes converts signals from the 20+ switches (buttons and stick positions) in the controller into a 4 digit binary code (ie: 1011) that is meaningful to the console. This is how the CV controllers manage to send signals for so many switches up a nine wire cord while the Atari 5200 controller requires a 25 wire cord. One trade off, the CV does not have a 5v power line in the cord like the Atari consoles. This turns out to be important because the Edladdin Super Arcade Controllers require a bit of power to drive the internal microprocessor that translates between the various consoles and controllers.

 

What we learned on the way...

 

Depending on the programming of the game, the CV is always listening to one circuit, then on a cycle it queries the other circuit to see if any new signals are being delivered. When we started, our sampling of games led us to believe that the CV was always listening to the stick circuit. But upon sending out the first few units, we quickly learned that there were a handful of games that work backwards - always listening to the keypad circuit and cycling back to the stick circuit. This threw a wrench in an ingenious scheme our engineer devised, in which we we steal a bit of power from the stick side of the CV circuit to power the microprocessor when the user is playing Coleco games. As a result, on those ten games the controller quickly goes dead due to a lack of power.

 

Because it was way too late to change the core PCB design (100 boards had already been built!), we dealt with this by recalling everything we had shipped and installed a secondary battery circuit. The battery has to be activated using the switch on the back when playing one of those ten games. The battery is a Lithium Ion battery that should last for years IF the users remember to turn off the switch whenever they are done playing those games. Changing the battery will be no big deal - remove the four screws that hold the case together and pop it out. The batteries (CR123) are $5.77 for a pair from Amazon.

 

The list of games we discovered are published on the Edladdin page where you would order a Super Arcade Controller Plus:

 

Alcazar: The Forgotten Fortress
Antarctic Adventure
Aquattack*
Cabbage Patch Kids: Adv. in the Park
Centipede
Defender**
Jungle Hunt
Monkey Academy
Sector Alpha
Sewer Sam

 

--------

 

Of course, the Edladdin Super CV controller is an electrical clone of a vintage Super Action controller, complete with the 16 diode passive array. That thing requires zero power and works flawlessly with all games. Those Coleco engineers were pretty smart!

 

And that's what that switch is for!

 

Ed

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Hastor]

Hi, I sent a few emails from the support form on the Edladdin site. After a while also did a PM on kickstarter. I eventually located the info above in a thread yesterday, but it took a while to find. As I opted for no graphics, I did need to reference the site pics to find out which port was which (took me a moment to realize the labels on the top left in pics correspond to the ports on the back, I thought they were just listing the compatibility). I'm all good now. I did order a second CV-only controller since I couldn't afford both at the same time, but I understand if there's a longer wait on a second order even with a pre order code.

 

Also was the first time I pulled out my SGM in months, to find it didn't work, so at first worried something with the switch was involved but have since tried another SGM which works fine, and sending mine off to Opcode to see what's up.

Haven't tried all 10 problem games but the few I did had no issues with the switch off. I was loading them from an Atarimax cart if that would change anything.

Edited June 14, 2018 by Hastor

[edladdin]

Also was the first time I pulled out my SGM in months, to find it didn't work, so at first worried something with the switch was involved but have since tried another SGM which works fine, and sending mine off to Opcode to see what's up.

Haven't tried all 10 problem games but the few I did had no issues with the switch off. I was loading them from an Atarimax cart if that would change anything.

 

That's weird. I'm also working from an AtariMax cart. If I kill that switch, those games go dead after a few seconds.

[Swami]

 

That's weird. I'm also working from an AtariMax cart. If I kill that switch, those games go dead after a few seconds.

There are probably multiple board revisions with different power outputs here and there, even over a couple years. Wild guess is that it could be that the board was revised to optimize for the original SAC, or to save money or just a happen-stance.

[edladdin]

Ok, this is long overdue... Hot off the presses, an instruction sheet for the Super Arcade Controller Plus.

 

I'll email this to recent clients, then we'll provide a printed copy with future sales.

 

Ed

Super-Arcade-Controller-PLUS-Instruction-Sheet-2018.pdf

[Hastor]

 

That's weird. I'm also working from an AtariMax cart. If I kill that switch, those games go dead after a few seconds.

I forget which three games I tried first, which worked fine but I didn't play long, but tested Defender and nothing worked right until the switch was on.

[Hastor]

Just ran into an interesting issue, and maybe this is known. Playing Thexder for the Super Game Module. With the switch off, nothing happens, with switch on, controls are weird and incorrect. Found that if I plug my real Coleco controller into the extension cable, I get the same results. Tried another extension cable which appears to be from the same supplier as this one, same results. Can only play with a real controller connected directly to the system. Is this a general issue with some SGM games? Do I need a different extension cable?

 

I should not this game uses keypad 1 or 3 to change forms and it seems to be pressing those when I try to walk right. Not specific to this stick, but thought someone here might know what's up, as you can't use this stick without an extension cable.

Edited June 17, 2018 by Hastor

[Swami]

Just ran into an interesting issue, and maybe this is known. Playing Thexder for the Super Game Module. With the switch off, nothing happens, with switch on, controls are weird and incorrect. Found that if I plug my real Coleco controller into the extension cable, I get the same results. Tried another extension cable which appears to be from the same supplier as this one, same results. Can only play with a real controller connected directly to the system. Is this a general issue with some SGM games? Do I need a different extension cable?

 

I should not this game uses keypad 1 or 3 to change forms and it seems to be pressing those when I try to walk right. Not specific to this stick, but thought someone here might know what's up, as you can't use this stick without an extension cable.

 

Try clamping the extension cord tightly to your controller with a rubber band. I've had extension cords that don't make good contact. You figure their too big by a 32th of an inch and they'll be loose.

 

Rubber band probably can't connect to the Arcade box connector, so if the extension cord is the problem, I would try another source for the extension cords.

 

If there are screw heads protruding from the connector on the arcade box, you may have to carve out a hole in the edges of the extension cable to make room for them to get closer contact.

[Hastor]

Thing is, another game that also uses the super game module, and buttons 1 and 3, works just fine, and doesn't even need the battery switched on. Only issue so far is with Thexder which does nothing with switch off, acts weird with switch on, but also identical to Coleco controller going through either extension cord. Seems every 9 pin game extender I find is the same exact design. I'm fine just playing this one with the original controller connected directly, everything else is fine so far.

[edladdin]

Just ran into an interesting issue, and maybe this is known. Playing Thexder for the Super Game Module. With the switch off, nothing happens, with switch on, controls are weird and incorrect. Found that if I plug my real Coleco controller into the extension cable, I get the same results. Tried another extension cable which appears to be from the same supplier as this one, same results. Can only play with a real controller connected directly to the system. Is this a general issue with some SGM games? Do I need a different extension cable?

 

I should not this game uses keypad 1 or 3 to change forms and it seems to be pressing those when I try to walk right. Not specific to this stick, but thought someone here might know what's up, as you can't use this stick without an extension cable.

 

Thanks for sharing this glitch! One of the issues we identified with the SAC and SAC Plus is the problem of joystick movements showing up as keypad presses. In SGM Bosconian, a diagonal movement to one of the lower corners would trigger a "pause", which was ordinarily caused by pressing a keypad key - either "*" or "#". Willie Culver was helping us to test some of these issues and the weird thing... He had two ColecoVision consoles to try and one of them would consistently produce the diagonal glitch, while the other was consistently fine. This led us to believe that part of the problem has to do with the health/quality of the controller ICs that handle incoming signals inside the console.

 

As for the extension cables, I really think its the controller rather than the cable. Returning to the testing with Willie, I also shipped him a "Super CV", which is the much simpler CV-only controller. Its a completely passive device with no logic or emulation, electrically identical to the original Super Action controller, less the thumbwheel. This controller worked perfectly with both consoles and all games, and would never yield the "false trigger" glitches. The cord for this controller IS hard wired rather than plug-in like the SAC Plus, but the actual cords are the same. In one case we chop off the end and solder in the internal lines, while the other we just hand you a cord that is unchanged from how we get them from China. All we add to those is the velcro wrap/tie.

[edladdin]

Thing is, another game that also uses the super game module, and buttons 1 and 3, works just fine, and doesn't even need the battery switched on. Only issue so far is with Thexder which does nothing with switch off, acts weird with switch on, but also identical to Coleco controller going through either extension cord. Seems every 9 pin game extender I find is the same exact design. I'm fine just playing this one with the original controller connected directly, everything else is fine so far.

 

Its definitely true that all the DB9 extension cords all seem to come from the same factory in China. We just ordered our third case of 250 pieces, and they all come from the same city whether or not you order from the same company name. I've looked at bagged game cords in retail stores and they seem to be the same ones as well. :-(

[Hastor]

 

As for the extension cables, I really think its the controller rather than the cable.

 

If this is the case, I find it really odd that I get the same results from a real CV controller connected through either cable. The fact that it doesn't work PERIOD with the switch in OFF position with the SAC tells me there's a power issue though, and maybe even with a real CV controller, the extension cable loses too much power? I'm speaking as someone that knows jack about this aside from the fact that some games need a battery due to power drain on the SAC. However, no other games have an issue that isn't resolved by the power switch. I have a few SGM games to fully test, but the rest work fine with the switch OFF. Only Thexder needs the switch to be on, and even then doesn't work right.

 

Once I get the standard CV stick I ordered, I'll test with it as well. No rush as I already got my SAC and have enough real CV controllers to get by on, but will be interested to see if that works with Thexder. I also wonder if Thexder would have the same issue if I pass the real (or SAC) through the trackball controller which has a power boost. I'll try that when I get the chance.

 

I've found other 9-pin cables, but they all have huge heads to screw them to serial ports and wouldn't fit in the CV. Still might get one and just saw the sides off to try! I also use these extension cables (or the same make anyway) for my Genesis, Atari, and even my AtariVox (it doesn't plug into the Coleco Module 1 Atari adapter well without an extension cable). No issues outside of Thexder!

Edited June 18, 2018 by Hastor

[Hastor]

Just for a small update, I found an old extension cord where both ends are the same size, as opposed to the wide male end on all the current ones. Same result on Thexder though. Just an odd one, only seems to like official Coleco cables. This was 6ft not sure if shorter would help or if that's even the issue. Same result with Edladdin SAC, and original system controller when using any extension cable. Coleco is weird.

 

Will see what my CV exclusive stick from Edladdin does when I get it. I'm ok if one game doesn't work with it though just a curious person.

[Swami]

Just ran into an interesting issue, and maybe this is known. Playing Thexder for the Super Game Module. With the switch off, nothing happens, with switch on, controls are weird and incorrect. Found that if I plug my real Coleco controller into the extension cable, I get the same results. Tried another extension cable which appears to be from the same supplier as this one, same results. Can only play with a real controller connected directly to the system. Is this a general issue with some SGM games? Do I need a different extension cable?

 

I should not this game uses keypad 1 or 3 to change forms and it seems to be pressing those when I try to walk right. Not specific to this stick, but thought someone here might know what's up, as you can't use this stick without an extension cable.

Weird and incorrect with Thexder how?

[Hastor]

Weird and incorrect with Thexder how?

Sorry if the above didn't explain it well enough. In Thexder, you use 1 or 3 on the keypad to transform.

 

When I use a real Coleco controller connected directly to the system, there's no problem. If using any extension cord, when I try to walk right, I constantly transform between robot and jet, as if I'm pressing 1 or 3 as well.

 

With the Edladdin SAC, I get nothing with the switch off. With it on, it behaves exactly like the real Coleco controller did when connected to an extension cable. I can only play with a real controller directly connected.

 

I've tried another game which uses the SGM and uses buttons 1 and 3, but the stick works great with the switch off, and the stick and buttons do what they should. Extension cable and real controller are fine too. Only Thexder has this weird issue with extension cables etc.

 

Again, not too worried just would like to understand how an extension cable can cause an issue like this for only one game. But I may never know also isn't specific to Edladdin aside from the fact that you can't use the SAC with a real Coleco cable.

Edited June 22, 2018 by Hastor

[Swami]

Sorry if the above didn't explain it well enough. In Thexder, you use 1 or 3 on the keypad to transform.

 

When I use a real Coleco controller connected directly to the system, there's no problem. If using any extension cord, when I try to walk right, I constantly transform between robot and jet, as if I'm pressing 1 or 3 as well.

 

With the Edladdin SAC, I get nothing with the switch off. With it on, it behaves exactly like the real Coleco controller did when connected to an extension cable. I can only play with a real controller directly connected.

 

I've tried another game which uses the SGM and uses buttons 1 and 3, but the stick works great with the switch off, and the stick and buttons do what they should. Extension cable and real controller are fine too. Only Thexder has this weird issue with extension cables etc.

 

Again, not too worried just would like to understand how an extension cable can cause an issue like this for only one game. But I may never know also isn't specific to Edladdin aside from the fact that you can't use the SAC with a real Coleco cable.

Well, it stands to reason that if it behaves this way with the standard handheld controller, it is the cable or the ColecoVision ( as in the game has a conflict with your ColecoVision board revision). Do you have access to another ColecoVision?

[Hastor]

Well, it stands to reason that if it behaves this way with the standard handheld controller, it is the cable or the ColecoVision ( as in the game has a conflict with your ColecoVision board revision). Do you have access to another ColecoVision?

I only have one ColecoVision. However I've tried 4 different 9 pin cables from at least two different manufacturers. It only affects this game. I have a large collection and an Atarimax sd cart, and have tested tons of games.

 

Keep in mind this is a recent port of an MSX game, specifically for the SGM. I'd like to know, have you tried Thexder with the SAC or an extension cable, and did it work for you? I really don't see how a board revision would cause a slight change in cable length to be an issue for a single game and no other. Then again I don't see how anything would cause that... Personally be I think the game's probably just finicky, being a recent port, but I know nothing.

[Swami]

I only have one ColecoVision. However I've tried 4 different 9 pin cables from at least two different manufacturers. It only affects this game. I have a large collection and an Atarimax sd cart, and have tested tons of games.

 

Keep in mind this is a recent port of an MSX game, specifically for the SGM. I'd like to know, have you tried Thexder with the SAC or an extension cable, and did it work for you? I really don't see how a board revision would cause a slight change in cable length to be an issue for a single game and no other. Then again I don't see how anything would cause that... Personally be I think the game's probably just finicky, being a recent port, but I know nothing.

 

The ROM has been released. Does the ROM work properly on the Atarimax cart?

[Swami]

I only have one ColecoVision. However I've tried 4 different 9 pin cables from at least two different manufacturers. It only affects this game. I have a large collection and an Atarimax sd cart, and have tested tons of games.

 

Keep in mind this is a recent port of an MSX game, specifically for the SGM. I'd like to know, have you tried Thexder with the SAC or an extension cable, and did it work for you? I really don't see how a board revision would cause a slight change in cable length to be an issue for a single game and no other. Then again I don't see how anything would cause that... Personally be I think the game's probably just finicky, being a recent port, but I know nothing.

 

I mean, do the controllers behave the same way using the Thexder ROM on the Atarimax cart with the SGM?

[Hastor]

 

I mean, do the controllers behave the same way using the Thexder ROM on the Atarimax cart with the SGM?

Hadn't tried it from the ROM but just did, same results. Only for this game!

[Hastor]

Also tried through powered roller controller, same as extension cable, with real Coleco controller. I give up on trying to understand this one lol, and didn't wanna hijack the thread, definitely not a SAC issue but would like to know if it happens to others. My CV is modded with AV outputs, internal power supply (which also powers the power port for the roller controller), and a pause button (which is passive when not pressed). However I don't think any of this changes behavior of only one game. I can play it that's what matters.

Edited June 23, 2018 by Hastor

[Swami]

Also tried through powered roller controller, same as extension cable, with real Coleco controller. I give up on trying to understand this one lol, and didn't wanna hijack the thread, definitely not a SAC issue but would like to know if it happens to others. My CV is modded with AV outputs, internal power supply (which also powers the power port for the roller controller), and a pause button (which is passive when not pressed). However I don't think any of this changes behavior of only one game. I can play it that's what matters.

 

Well, I tried it out with the Thexder ROM on my system and I did see the same behavior, also saw it without extension cord with the Famicom controller modded for ColecoVision and for my Jaguar controller modded for CV, except for Jag controller it does it with down instead of right -- seems to be happening when pressing the 2nd fire button and the direction at the same time. Only way it doesn't is same as you, stock hand controller with no extension cord -- haven't tried super action controller.

 

My guess would be this game interprets hand controller actions with some kind of specific power losses as keypad button presses. I don't have the manual, so I'm uncertain what does what, like the second fire button, or transformation.

[edladdin]

The ColecoVision is a weird animal. This is the sort of maze we found ourselves in, which is when we decided we had made the controllers as bulletproof as possible.

 

I don't think the console is specifically trying to read a high or low power state. The entire act of adding the battery to our console was done to feed power to our on-board microprocessor, not anything for the CV console. The way it was explained to me, the diode array in the CV controllers converts switch closures (= keypad, button, or joystick) into a four digit binary code, like 0100 or 1011. This code is interpreted by the controller ICs inside the console. Our best guess was that these false keypad buttons was a timing issue because of the periodic surveying that the console does on one or the other of the circuit sides. Or general flakiness with the ICs, which is consistent with the rest of the console. Slight variations in the power supply voltage lead to the console not operating at all, or throwing weird trash all over the screen.

 

Hastor, your Super CV order was temporarily stuck while we were reordering the enclosure, an operation that got way more complicated when the metal bending and stamping vendor we have been using for the last 30 years unexpectedly closed their factory. But the other day I was reorganizing the shop and found a few more of those cases stashed in a box, so now your Super CV order is moving again. I'm keen to learn whether Thexder works for you with this controller.

[Trebor]

I should not this game uses keypad 1 or 3 to change forms and it seems to be pressing those when I try to walk right. Not specific to this stick, but thought someone here might know what's up, as you can't use this stick without an extension cable.

 

Just a heads-up...

 

Besides keypad 1 or 3, pressing down on the controller also changes form from robot to aircraft.

 

Also, when in aircraft mode, pressing in the 180 degree opposite direction the aircraft is flying will change the aircraft form back to robot; whether it's pressing the controller east when flying west, pressing the controller west when flying east, pressing south when flying north or, north when flying south, the transformation will take place.

 

90 degree intervals prevents the change and maintains the aircraft form (I.E. Heading left and pressing up or down, heading up and pressing left or right, etc.) However, if the aircraft hits an object: a wall, ceiling, or floor, it will transform the aircraft back to robot.