Gyruss for Intellivision?

[arcade124]

I saw that video a few days ago when it was first posted, the thing is he isn't referring to the same crash I am. I'm talking about the demand and thus prices for these games to drop, the communities here and, as a result, homebrews for these consoles dying out, not fewer people collecting NES stuff.

[+KylJoy]

Hey all! I am going to be involved with vintage videogame collecting FOREVER. And not just Intellivision, but ALL the old systems. And over time I'll move to newer and newer systems as they become "old" systems. That's what I do and I have fun doing it. Crash, no crash (whatever that is) is irrelevant. I'm about loving the nostalgia and collecting for my own personal pleasure. It is fun to share with others that have similar interests but that is not my primary driver.

 

So, again, KEEP MAKING MORE QUALITY GAMES!

[m-crew]

There's something happening here

What it is ain't exactly clear

There's a man with a gun over there

Telling me I got to beware

 

I think it's time we stop, children, what's that sound

Everybody look what's going down

 

There's battle lines being drawn

Nobody's right if everybody's wrong

Young people speaking their minds

Getting so much resistance from behind

 

It's time we stop, hey, what's that sound

Everybody look what's going down

[mr_me]

A crash is good for collectors, not so good for sellers. The homebrew market is different. With collectables, markets are often volatile, doesn't matter what it is, from sports cards to fine art.

[m-crew]

Take a dream on a sunday

Take a life, take a holiday

Take a lie, take a dreamer

Dream, dream, dream, dream, dream, dream, dream, dream along

Dreamer, dream and dream along

C'mon and dream, dream along (come along)

(C'mon and dream, dream along)

[+JasonlikesINTV]

A crash is good for collectors, not so good for sellers. The homebrew market is different. With collectables, markets are often volatile, doesn't matter what it is, from sports cards to fine art.

That's kinda how I see it. I don't anticipate a hard crash, just inevitable volitility. At one point many out of print homebrews had inflated to 4-5x their original value. Many of those same titles peaked/corrected and are more recently hovering around 2-3x. Most Intellivision Revolution and Elektronite games hover around 0.8-1x their original sale price, which isn't surprising since they essentially aren't limited in quantity and are available for many months. This also largely drove off speculators and resellers and many collectors reduced the number of copies purchased. Sure, Gyruss happened and it's a shame, but I think we've done a decent job of expressing our dissatisfaction with what happened. Some people from our community likely purchased a copy (though I haven't seen anyone from AtariAge actually verify it), but people are free to make their own choices and I don't see anyone glorifying it. The vibe I get is that, as a whole, we largely condemned that entire situation. That's a sign of a healthy community, not a deteriorating one.

 

The biggest headwind I see for the homebrew market moving forward is the aging fanbase. Younger, newer fans do enter the market, but I'm not sure they'll replenish us old, nostalgic fogies fast enough. I'm curious what effect the Amico will have on the collector community. Time will tell.

[+JasonlikesINTV]

Just a quick follow-up to my statement about a healthy community. I'm not suggesting in any way that the overall state of the community is "healthy" per se. Quite the contrary, actually. But with numerous therapy sessions I think we might eventually become contributing members of society...and maybe even get our own apartment someday

[+DZ-Jay]

Just a quick follow-up to my statement about a healthy community. I'm not suggesting in any way that the overall state of the community is "healthy" per se. Quite the contrary, actually. But with numerous therapy sessions I think we might eventually become contributing members of society...and maybe even get our own apartment someday

 

You take first turn at the couch!

[+Gunoz]

...Sure, Gyruss happened and it's a shame, but I think we've done a decent job of expressing our dissatisfaction with what happened. Some people from our community likely purchased a copy (though I haven't seen anyone from AtariAge actually verify it), but people are free to make their own choices and I don't see anyone glorifying it. The vibe I get is that, as a whole, we largely condemned that entire situation. That's a sign of a healthy community, not a deteriorating one.

 

Been trying to catch up on my collection (TL;DR OT story), and came across Gyruss earlier today. Thought maybe it was a double secret probation release, and went digging for info. So glad I saw the discussion here so I could make an informed decision not to purchase a copy.

[+the1hatman]

I've read everything that's been said on here.

 

If you had then you wouldn't have needed to ask "Look, you're for or against this, you can't be neutral. Which are you?" considering how clear I've obviously made that the last 6 months.

 

 

You've said that Gyruss is a problem, however it's not just one issue, it's yet another shady deal that's occurred here.

 

 

You directly asked, ""Look, you're for or against this, you can't be neutral. Which are you?" and I directly answered TEN times. Saying "it's not just one issue" is not going to erase your attempt to paint me as pro-code stealing because I do not agree with your crash assessment and being thoroughly shown how out of touch you were with the discussion. At least you've figured out I'm anti-Gyruss now that I've spelled it out for you.

 

And yes, there are shady deals across the entire spectrum of the collecting world. It's not good and it has to be rooted out by the various communities. Where we disagree is that your contingent wants to say it's happening at some kind of rapidly increasing pace based on one game with stolen code making it to market (and selling poorly) and some other game being released in secret. The evidence for the proposed onslaught of shady deals eroding the community is pretty thin. We do do agree that these practices are not good, as I have stated all along, but I do not believe it is leading to any kind of crash or that it is driving people away from the community. Simple as that.

 

 

It does represent if not the community, than at least where the community's heading. That is what you fail to acknowledge.

 

I don't acknowledge it because I outright disagree with that assessment. The community voiced it's opinion thoroughly enough that it stopped the initial sale of this game until it was at least re-coded to not look like Deep Zone. This happened to the point that the initial orders from 6 months ago were refunded. Now that the supposed "corrected" version has shown up on eBay it has sold a whopping 9 copies. That's the community's ACTUAL response to this kind of activity. Demanding accountability and turning away from an offering when no such accountability is shown. These are actual facts you can check in the links provided. Not hyperbole, not opinion, not made up statements, facts. That is what you fail to acknowledge.

 

 

Also, I'd prefer if we at least didn't sink low enough to resort to name calling.

 

You lost that consideration when you "sunk low enough" to attribute false statements to members here. If you can refrain from that going forward I'm willing to be more cordial.

[arcade124]

 

If you had then you wouldn't have needed to ask "Look, you're for or against this, you can't be neutral. Which are you?" considering how clear I've obviously made that the last 6 months.

 

 

 

 

You directly asked, ""Look, you're for or against this, you can't be neutral. Which are you?" and I directly answered TEN times. Saying "it's not just one issue" is not going to erase your attempt to paint me as pro-code stealing because I do not agree with your crash assessment and being thoroughly shown how out of touch you were with the discussion. At least you've figured out I'm anti-Gyruss now that I've spelled it out for you.

 

And yes, there are shady deals across the entire spectrum of the collecting world. It's not good and it has to be rooted out by the various communities. Where we disagree is that your contingent wants to say it's happening at some kind of rapidly increasing pace based on one game with stolen code making it to market (and selling poorly) and some other game being released in secret. The evidence for the proposed onslaught of shady deals eroding the community is pretty thin. We do do agree that these practices are not good, as I have stated all along, but I do not believe it is leading to any kind of crash or that it is driving people away from the community. Simple as that.

 

 

 

I don't acknowledge it because I outright disagree with that assessment. The community voiced it's opinion thoroughly enough that it stopped the initial sale of this game until it was at least re-coded to not look like Deep Zone. This happened to the point that the initial orders from 6 months ago were refunded. Now that the supposed "corrected" version has shown up on eBay it has sold a whopping 9 copies. That's the community's ACTUAL response to this kind of activity. Demanding accountability and turning away from an offering when no such accountability is shown. These are actual facts you can check in the links provided. Not hyperbole, not opinion, not made up statements, facts. That is what you fail to acknowledge.

 

 

 

You lost that consideration when you "sunk low enough" to attribute false statements to members here. If you can refrain from that going forward I'm willing to be more cordial.

It is happening at a rapidly increasing pace. Gyruss is just one instance of it, and nine copies is nine copies too much considering its price and the relative size of the community. It's driving people away from the community, if not long-time members then newcomers who see this and take it as a warning to stay away.

 

With you being anti-Gyruss, you should agree with the crash for reasons previously listed. You never even responded to all my reasoning and layouts for the falls of this community and the others, which I made almost a month ago after you asked me to.

 

I forgot to quote you a couple of times throughout this. When I did, you pointed it out, and I proceeded to put the quotes in my direct reply. Other than that, I misunderstood what intellivotion meant about not rare versus common, but you weren't even a part of that. I explained myself each time, while you just called everyone Captain Eyeroll and abject rookies. I do not have multi-quote set, so I can't quote you, but I just went and looked to find that those were your exact words.

 

But hey, if you want to maintain that maturity level, I can follow that. I will not right now, but keep that in mind for the future.

[+JasonlikesINTV]

 

Been trying to catch up on my collection (TL;DR OT story), and came across Gyruss earlier today. Thought maybe it was a double secret probation release, and went digging for info. So glad I saw the discussion here so I could make an informed decision not to purchase a copy.

I try to remain a neutral observer, so I'm not trying to speak for the community or guide anyone's decision to buy or not buy. That said, I'd strongly advise anyone considering Gyruss to read up on how it came to be. I personally chose not to purchase it due to its questionable origin. However, even if it was an unambiguously legit release, I'd probably still have opted out due to the steep price tag.

 

I think some folks will have some tough decisions to make as these guys market their future planned releases, especially if no code is stolen and if prices become more realistic.

[+the1hatman]

It is happening at a rapidly increasing pace.

 

What are the other instances of it here in the Intellivision community? Show your work, don't just base it on your feelings.

 

 

Gyruss is just one instance of it, and nine copies is nine copies too much considering its price and the relative size of the community.

 

I would say that even 1 copy is too much but the fact that it's taken a month and a half to move just 9 games puts a massive hole in your statement that "It is indicative of the community because its frequency is increasing, and people are supporting it." And whatever you think the "relative size of the community" is, 9 is not representative enough of the group to make such a claim. All of that is even assuming all 9 sales even went to people in this forum. There are plenty of Intellivision collectors on eBay that do not use AtariAge.

 

I guarantee Hotel Bunny moved more than 9 copies the first week that Rev had it available, much less the first month, and that game is generally viewed as one of the lesser homebrew titles. That's what this community supporting something looks like.

 

 

It's driving people away from the community, if not long-time members then newcomers who see this and take it as a warning to stay away.

 

Really, who exactly? You're new and yet still along for the ride aren't you? Again you make broad assumptions based on nothing more than your feelings. Discuss real numbers, examples, links, facts. Leave the hyperbole out of it or quit wasting your time. I can make up generic claims with no possible way to support them as well but that doesn't make for a compelling argument.

 

 

With you being anti-Gyruss, you should agree with the crash for reasons previously listed. You never even responded to all my reasoning and layouts for the falls of this community and the others, which I made almost a month ago after you asked me to.

 

I have been over exactly why Gyruss does not represent an imminent crash and am now tired of linking all the posts you never bothered to read. So, no I "should" not agree with anything I haven't already addressed in the discussion.

 

I do admit I had not seen your reply as I was not in the thread again until recently. Having read it I can say the majority of it is irrelevant since you went on and on about other system's groups rather than focusing on this community that you have labeled as "supporting" the kind of behavior shown with those who released Gyruss. You also continued to assign quotations to myself and others that have never once been stated here, such as "oh, it's just once, it's bad but not a big deal". At best that is intellectually dishonest and at worst is outright lying. You can pick which one you'd like to claim but your repeated reliance on this tactic leads me to believe it's the latter.

 

As for your predictions, I give you credit for having the guts to put it out there. We'll all just have to wait and see if any of us are still here by 2022 but considering there are threads that go back to 2008, I'm not worried about this group suddenly collapsing.

 

Again, the prices for original 125 items have ebbed and flowed for years. That it is currently a bear market is no indication of a crash as this has happened before and will again. Even if the prices for things like Tut and Cobra do tank to the point you believe (they won't) the European members here have already explained to you the background of those games and why their prices are in flux though you blew it off since it didn't mesh with your own view. What would they know anyway, right?

 

 

I forgot to quote you a couple of times throughout this. When I did, you pointed it out, and I proceeded to put the quotes in my direct reply.

 

 

Complete garbage. Multiple times you attributed completely made up statements to myself and others here. You posted exactly one actual quote of mine after getting called out on it which made so little sense to the discussion that I had to post TEN links of statements refuting what you were claiming I had said. You tried to make a strawman argument and presented falsehoods to back it up. Now you get to own it.

 

 

Other than that, I misunderstood what intellivotion meant about not rare versus common, but you weren't even a part of that.

 

Lies. You said both I and intellivotion had said, "it's just once, it's fine", among other false statements, when neither of us have. I don't know what other thing you misunderstood from him but that's not what I was referring and you know it. Again, you get to own this.

 

 

I explained myself each time, while you just called everyone Captain Eyeroll and abject rookies.

 

 

You have not even so much as apologized for the false statements much less explained anything. Captain Eyeroll long predates your presence here and if you don't want to be called an abject rookie then stop acting like one.

 

 

I do not have multi-quote set, so I can't quote you, but I just went and looked to find that those were your exact words.

 

You don't need multi anything. You can simply cut and paste someone actual words and put it in "quotations" if you really want to address their actual statement. But you were never concerned with what anyone actually said as you went about making up things that sounded better for your argument.

 

But hey, if you want to maintain that maturity level, I can follow that. I will not right now, but keep that in mind for the future.

 

Oh man this is going to be fun... wait for it..... BOOM!

 

I was wrong DZ, that is pretty fun!

[m-crew]

 

[+JasonlikesINTV]

I just had this crazy dream where I bought Gyruss...

Edited December 16, 2018 by JasonlikesINTV

[+the1hatman]

I just had this crazy dream where I bought Gyruss...

 

I feel compelled to inform you that you are normalizing this behavior and are another example of how this is indicative of the community supporting the kind of nefarious actions which will lead to Intellivision crashing out of the retro gaming community within the next 4 years.

 

[wolfy62]

I love this place because a lot of you guys are hilarious!!!

[+DZ-Jay]

 

I just had this crazy dream where I bought Gyruss...

 

 

 

 

I feel compelled to inform you that you are normalizing this behavior and are another example of how this is indicative of the community supporting the kind of nefarious actions which will lead to Intellivision crashing out of the retro gaming community within the next 4 years.

 

 

 

Ready ... set ... go!

 

 

[m-crew]

 

This guy will take 2 please and thank you !!!

[m-crew]

 

much better after that hit.....

[m-crew]

Take a dream on a sunday

Take a life, take a holiday

Take a lie, take a dreamer

Dream, dream, dream, dream, dream, dream, dream, dream along

Dreamer, dream and dream along

C'mon and dream, dream along (come along)

(C'mon and dream, dream along)

[+intellivotion]

 

I feel compelled to inform you that you are normalizing this behavior and are another example of how this is indicative of the community supporting the kind of nefarious actions which will lead to Intellivision crashing out of the retro gaming community within the next 4 years hours.

 

FTFY

[m-crew]

Call it what you will, a Crash maybe not but it sure is a Supply and Demand thing from homebrews to the original releases and farkles.... Prices have dropped on almost all of the semi rare games.. from Dracula to worm whomper.. just go on ebay and see for your self.. Like I have mentioned before

Too may hands in to few pockets, Supply and Demand... Slowly it will be a producer market(or people with deep pockets) just trading off products and $$$$$

So many have jumped on the bandwagon with products for the right or wrong reasons doesn't really matter ... It is and has affected pricing and has opened the Pandora's box for this kind of Shit Show .. Even after all that went on people are still willing to support crap like this(Gyruss to name one)... what will be that next hit for the addiction... ... ;P

yup ,

[arcade124]

I will be replying to you in multiple posts, likely throughout the day as I will have to see what all posts I need to quote you from and when all I have time to do so.

This is bad but not indicative of the community in general.

There, you did say that this was bad but not that bad since this particular instance was just once. (Yes, I will be getting into these other instances in my other replies per your request, but I have other quotes of yours to find first.)

[arcade124]

don't look at the open auctions or listings.

 

The lists of the sold games will tell you another story:

Super Cobra UK: https://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_sacat=0&_nkw=intellivision%20super%20cobra&LH_Complete=1&LH_Sold=1&rt=nc&_trksid=p2045573.m1684

Tutankham UK: https://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_sacat=0&_nkw=intellivision%20tutankham&LH_Complete=1&LH_Sold=1&rt=nc&_trksid=p2045573.m1684

Super Cobra France:https://www.ebay.fr/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_sacat=0&_nkw=intellivision+super+cobra&LH_Complete=1&LH_Sold=1&rt=nc

Tutankham France: https://www.ebay.fr/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_sacat=0&_nkw=intellivision+tutankham&LH_Complete=1&LH_Sold=1&rt=nc

 

By the way I never said they are common in France and UK. I said they are not rare, that is different

 

 

Well, even so, it doesn't detract from the numerous other reasons I explained as to why a crash is coming.

The latter was my reply to the former. His argument did not make sense to me at first, but it did after he brought up the sold games and explained he meant not rare as opposed to common. That is why I have stopped using Tutankham and Super Cobra as part of my argument: he, unlike you, was able to debunk it. (Though I will point out that, not that this detracts from his argument any, but since you seem to think I do not trust European members, I clearly do but also he lives in Italy as opposed to France and the UK where he was speaking of. Yes, Tutankham and Super Cobra were released there, but in that case he was not speaking of experiences with his own country.)