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600/800XL Keyboard variants


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#76 flashjazzcat OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Sep 9, 2016 3:04 PM

Just desolder and replace switches. Nice easy fix providing you can find a donor board.



#77 spacecadet OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Sep 9, 2016 8:06 PM

Missed this thread previous times it's come up - had no idea there were different keyboards for the XL's. My 800XL has a Type I and I still don't like it. It might be just that it hasn't aged well; I'm not sure. The keys just have no "bounce"; you press them and they kind of glide back up, a lot slower than I'd like. I type fast enough that sometimes they're not fully "up" by the time I hit them a second time, and that's really a nasty feeling. It's basically always a problem on any key I have to hit twice in a row; I feel like the second press is a lot harder.

 

Maybe when new this keyboard would have had a snappier feel to it, but I think it's that slowness of return that's led me to describe XL keyboards as feeling "mushy" in general. Although now I realize they may not all be equally this way.



#78 Spanner OFFLINE  

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Posted Sat Sep 10, 2016 7:33 AM

is any key switches that i can use now that I can replace them with..?

 

how about theses..?  http://www.ebay.co.u...1cAAOSw~gRVivs7


Edited by Spanner, Sat Sep 10, 2016 7:35 AM.


#79 Spanner OFFLINE  

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Posted Sat Sep 10, 2016 8:47 AM

I posted about it in more detail here.. http://atariage.com/...board-keyboard/



#80 Defender II OFFLINE  

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Posted Mon Sep 19, 2016 3:40 PM

I have a Type 2, made by AWC (number 70166201) I think,and some of my key are not working properly,the keys are soldered on to the circuit board.anyway of fixing it..?

Do you have type 2 for sure or could it be type 2a?

 

I would be interested in it for parts either way if you don't fix it.



#81 GlowingGhoul OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Nov 11, 2016 10:14 AM

Are mylars for Type 4 (metal plate) keyboards available anywhere?



#82 tf_hh OFFLINE  

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Posted Mon Nov 14, 2016 3:32 AM

Are mylars for Type 4 (metal plate) keyboards available anywhere?

 

I think, nobody has them. BEST Electronics and myAtari (B&C) haven´t any mylar for that keyboard...

 

But you can fix it! All you need is some silver conductive paint and smooth hands. I suggest the following steps:

 

1. Use a very soft rubber (special for stencil-art for example) and clean all traces. You can remove a lot of the black, dirty parts from the traces.

2. Clean the whole mylar foil with hand-warm water and some dish liquid

3. Let it dry for 30 minutes

4. Use a stapler and mount the unfolded mylar to some soft wood or rubber or what you have and which is usable for staples. Of course use places for the staples at the outer corners of the mylar, where no traces etc. are. Without this step you will get mad for sure... :-D

5. Take a ruler, a very fine paintbrush and repaint all traces with the silver conductive paint. Start at the top, repaint all traces horizontally, let it dry 10 minutes, then all tarces diagonally, dry, then vertically. This way prevent you from blur out the conductive paint.

 

You will need 2-3 hours for the job. But in over 90% all cases I´ve done that the mylar is working again for years...

 

Jurgen

 

PS: Don´t be so lazy and fix only the traces you might see a broken trace... even if you fix it with success, a few months later another key(s) won´t work. I promise that... :mad:



#83 Kyle22 OFFLINE  

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Posted Mon Nov 14, 2016 8:50 PM

Does this include painting the round dots that are the actual contact points?  Would too much paint cause a thickness problem?

 

Edit: I assume this applies to the 1200XL Mitsumi keyboard as well.


Edited by Kyle22, Mon Nov 14, 2016 8:53 PM.


#84 tf_hh OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Nov 15, 2016 1:34 AM

Does this include painting the round dots that are the actual contact points?  Would too much paint cause a thickness problem?

 

Edit: I assume this applies to the 1200XL Mitsumi keyboard as well.

 

Yes, the same way could be used for the 1200XL keyboard. But in the most times the main problem with the 1200XL keyboard is the "handover" from the PCB´s gold plated contacts to the mylar. Most times it´s enough to repaint the contact traces of the mylar at this "handover" point. Then remove the black coal plating, clean the contacts with isopropanyl alcohol. Finally I use one or two small stripes of duct tape to rise the pressure at this "handover" point (sorry.. when I get my own 1200XL, I can shot some pictures, it´s easier to understand). Maybe here´s a thread anybody else shown it already...

 

The round dots I also always repaint. There´s no problem with the thickness, even if you repaint it twice. The clearance between single key mechanism and the mylar is wide enough.



#85 ApolloBoy OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Nov 15, 2016 9:14 AM

I recently snagged an 800XL with a Type 1 keyboard, looking forward to trying it out since the two previous 800XLs I've owned both had the Type 4 which I didn't care for.

#86 DrVenkman ONLINE  

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Posted Wed Apr 19, 2017 4:37 PM

This thread needs updating...
 

(SNIP)

 Type 4: Unknown - using "Hi-Tek/Stackpole-like" switches (incomplete! needs more detail!)

 

Bumping this thread due to an "parts machine" 800XL I just got today - it is a 33rd week of '84 production NTSC machine from Taiwan that, from the force it took to break friction on the case screws, has never been opened up. The keyboard has a nice feel - less force required than my other 800XL and 600XL machines and it has a sticker I've yet to see on any of the photos in this thread. All the keys work in my initial tests so I've no immediate plans to disassemble the keyboard assembly.

 

IMG_7612.JPG  

 

IMG_7627.JPG



#87 _The Doctor__ OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Apr 21, 2017 3:10 PM

Did not realize that was considered rare... I have had at least 5 800's with that kind of keyboard switch and at least two 800XL's over the years with the same copper leaf contact.... I always found the logo amusing.... look at the figure and the 'stacked pole' of the logo.... :o


Edited by _The Doctor__, Fri Apr 21, 2017 3:11 PM.


#88 kheller2 OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Apr 21, 2017 3:44 PM

Just some information from that Master Item List.  There does seem to be more types of keyboards than what is listed here, but some of that could be related to how a manufacture changed their own keyboard.

 

keyboard types.png



#89 Kyle22 OFFLINE  

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Posted Sat Apr 22, 2017 7:21 PM

I think the logo is intended to represent someone using a keyboard.

#90 Sugarland OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Apr 25, 2017 12:08 PM

 

Bumping this thread due to an "parts machine" 800XL I just got today - it is a 33rd week of '84 production NTSC machine from Taiwan that, from the force it took to break friction on the case screws, has never been opened up. The keyboard has a nice feel - less force required than my other 800XL and 600XL machines and it has a sticker I've yet to see on any of the photos in this thread. All the keys work in my initial tests so I've no immediate plans to disassemble the keyboard assembly.

 

I've been considering these as the type 4. Is there much of a difference? I don't like how the SCCO types. Stiff keys and the typing experience does not flow. The shift and control keys frequently stick unless pressed in the exact middle.  I have three of them. Slay burglars with them. That's what the guy in the logo is doing.

 

If you peel the logo off, on the underside of the label you can see a dead burglar with a C= shirt.  /s



#91 DrVenkman ONLINE  

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Posted Tue Apr 25, 2017 3:35 PM

 

I've been considering these as the type 4. Is there much of a difference? I don't like how the SCCO types. Stiff keys and the typing experience does not flow.

 

That's why I noted this one - none of the earlier photos showed an actual Stackpole label, just some discussion of an ink stamp on the metal plate. Further, this machine types a lot more nicely - less force and more "flow" as you put it - than my other two. 

 

That said, once I get one of my 1200XL machines running again, it's going to stay my main "daily driver" for a good while. :) 



#92 Sugarland OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Apr 25, 2017 11:09 PM

 

That's why I noted this one - none of the earlier photos showed an actual Stackpole label, just some discussion of an ink stamp on the metal plate. Further, this machine types a lot more nicely - less force and more "flow" as you put it - than my other two. 

 

That said, once I get one of my 1200XL machines running again, it's going to stay my main "daily driver" for a good while. :)

 

Wow good to know! If I saw that machine in an auction thumbnail I would have passed it. Great find! Yes my SCCO's don't have the Stackpole label. =(

 

There is some irony in that the SCCO's often have great function keys. As in your photo. They are lined up evenly, the resistance is great, they often aren't corroding, are at a perfect height to match the transparent window (I love the window!!!), etc etc.. However the Alps model function keys often have very weak resistance and have become recessed over time (makes it look heavily used).

 

Is it possible to move the function keys from an SCCO to an Alps? I haven't desoldered the Alps function keys off or removed them from the SCCO. I did look closely and they appear to be different underneath the function keys key caps.   Alternatively is there a way to fix the recessed function keys on the Alps?  Maybe it's just a spring replacement issue.



#93 mykgerard OFFLINE  

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Posted Mon Sep 4, 2017 8:14 AM

I was looking for a visible difference between 4 and 5 so I looked carefully at the keys and I noticed that the number 4 is styled differently between them so I figured I'd share.



#94 Level42 OFFLINE  

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Posted Mon Sep 4, 2017 9:13 AM

no, but the RF Modulator is probly socketed too!

;')

sloopy.

 

If only that were true.....it's a PITA to remove those bastards because they "eat up" all the heat of my soldering station......



#95 DrVenkman ONLINE  

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Posted Mon Sep 4, 2017 9:20 AM

 

If only that were true.....it's a PITA to remove those bastards because they "eat up" all the heat of my soldering station......

 

Once I saw Jon remove one in a YouTube video, it's easy if a bit time consuming. Don't actually remove the solder from the lugs and holes, just get it good and hot/soft, working a small flat blade screwdriver under the modulator can and pry very gently against the board as you heat the one or two lugs near the end of the board. It takes a few minutes but you can work the end of the can up and out of the mounting holes. Do the same for the ones on the side if it has any, and then the lug or lugs at the rear. You can clean out the holes or not as you choose after the can is gone. You my need to bend the mounting lugs straight as you heat up the solder if they were twisted during board assembly.



#96 Level42 OFFLINE  

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Posted Mon Sep 4, 2017 2:17 PM

Yeah, I get them off alright....I had a temperature controlled station which was great....until it broke down. Now using my antique Weller thermostat station. Need as hot and not as constant in temp, but at least it will still work when I won't anymore ;)



#97 kheller2 OFFLINE  

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Posted Yesterday, 5:00 PM

Is the spring stiffness different for the the silver keys HSSOR on the various keyboards?  I ask because all my 1200XL's have the same spring stiffness except the 1200XL PILOT unit. In that case the silver keys are softer than the regular keyboard and the Reset key is very stiff.  I wasn't sure if that was the way 800s were originally as well.






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