NTSC Rarity Guide - R10s

[homerwannabee]

In my opinion that is too minor of a label variation. If you look hard enough there are probably many minor label variations out there.

Edited April 19, 2007 by homerwannabee

[crunchysuperman]

Yes, there are. As picky as I am about label variations, there are some I don't bother with. For example, if two are identical in every way except the date, then I don't care.

 

I think this case is different. I'm probably in the vast minority here, but I go so far as to classify Atari Inc. & Atari Corp. as separate companies, as it decreases confusion in my listings. Therefore, this is the Atari Inc. picture label, as opposed to the Atari Corp. picture label.

[homerwannabee]

Yes, there are. As picky as I am about label variations, there are some I don't bother with. For example, if two are identical in every way except the date, then I don't care.

 

I think this case is different. I'm probably in the vast minority here, but I go so far as to classify Atari Inc. & Atari Corp. as separate companies, as it decreases confusion in my listings. Therefore, this is the Atari Inc. picture label, as opposed to the Atari Corp. picture label.

That would be like saying that WWF and WWE are 2 different companies.

[crunchysuperman]

Like I said, not many will likely agree with me. It's just an easier way for me to keep track of label variations.

[Shawn]

 

That would be like saying that WWF and WWE are 2 different companies.

 

Um, Yep, Vince Sr. VS Vince Jr.

[Dino]

In my opinion that is too minor of a label variation. If you look hard enough there are probably many minor label variations out there.

 

I agree. It breaches the first law that was set out previously - It has to be a different entity's cart to make it. Sears is a different entity from Atari and sold games presumably under a licence issued by Atari. The fact that Atari changed its legal standing between 1978 and 1986 does not make it a different company.

 

Its similar with Spectravision and Spectravideo. The fact that the company had to change its name for legal reasons, does not make it a different legal company. In my mind spectravision and spectravideo should be seen as one cart, with label variations.

[Christophero Sly]

In my opinion that is too minor of a label variation. If you look hard enough there are probably many minor label variations out there.

Your opinion reinforces my point that the distinctions being made are too arbitrary and too subjective.

 

It has to be a different entity's cart to make it... The fact that Atari changed its legal standing between 1978 and 1986 does not make it a different company.

The same situation applies to Gravitar, so why is it not disqualified? The visual differences that exist between Atari, Inc. and Atari, Corp. Flag Capture are, fundamentally, just as significant as those between Atari, Inc. and Atari, Corp. Gravitar. Moreover, it's not the rerelease Atari, Corp. variant of Flag Capture that I'm suggesting is worthy of inclusion. It's the original Atari, Inc. picture label that is rare. This fact alone makes the cartridge significant and worthy of inclusion on any meaningful rarity list. The fact that Atari reissued the game years later with a different label doesn't diminish the significance or rarity of the original Atari, Inc. cartridge. Edited May 3, 2007 by Christophero Sly

[Marco]

Maybe we should redefine R10 as being "less than 10 known to exist". The list would look something like this:

 

Air Raid

Birthday Mania

ECPC Cartridge

Gauntlet

Karate

Space Chase Monogrammed

 

These are the actual Holy Grails of Atari 2600 collecting, close to impossible to find.

 

 

Cheers,

Marco

[Rom Hunter]

Don't forget this one:

http://atarimania.com/detail_soft.php?MENU...ERSION_ID=15501

 

Not a cartridge, but the game is unique (although I think there are probably more than 10 consoles with this game floating around).

 

[Dino]

Maybe we should redefine R10 as being "less than 10 known to exist". The list would look something like this:

 

Air Raid

Birthday Mania

ECPC Cartridge

Gauntlet

Karate

Space Chase Monogrammed

 

These are the actual Holy Grails of Atari 2600 collecting, close to impossible to find.

 

 

Cheers,

Marco

 

Marco,

 

I actually agree with you. If people agree with Marco's suggestion, I'll update the R10s. Out of curiosity then Marco, what would your R9 list look like?

[Marco]

Well, you know my theory, everything else is rarity "not ultra rare"

 

If I had to make a list, it would look something like:

 

Atlantis II (Imagic)

BMX Airmaster (Atari)

Color Bar Generator (Videosoft)

Eli's Ladder (Simage)

Lochjaw (Apollo)

Magicard (Commavid)

Mangia (Spectravision)

Pepsi Invaders (Atari)

Sea Monster (Puzzy)

Space Tunnel (Puzzy)

Video Life (Commavid)

Xante cartridge (Xante)

 

 

Cheers,

Marco

[homerwannabee]

Maybe we should redefine R10 as being "less than 10 known to exist". The list would look something like this:

 

Air Raid

Birthday Mania

ECPC Cartridge

Gauntlet

Karate

Space Chase Monogrammed

 

These are the actual Holy Grails of Atari 2600 collecting, close to impossible to find.

 

 

Cheers,

Marco

I would argue to make it 50 known or less. Your list has left off some pretty highly regarded carts like Video Life and Atlantis II. Sides, as the years progress the more of even these carts will be found and almost no cart except maybe Birthday Mania will have less than 10.

[Marco]

Exactly, that's why we need to redefine the rarity values as time goes by!

 

It just doesn't feel right naming something a Holy Grail when more than 10 people own it.

 

Cheers,

Marco

[homerwannabee]

Exactly, that's why we need to redefine the rarity values as time goes by!

 

It just doesn't feel right naming something a Holy Grail when more than 10 people own it.

 

Cheers,

Marco

About 10 years ago you I think you would be right on the 10 or less thing. But one thing should be noted. This community is a lot larger than it was just 5 years ago. I decided to do some research on the member list here and I found something interesting.

During Jan 2003 when this site was around for over a year and a half. Fully enough time for most collectors to join there was 2,450 members

since then the membership has grown dramatically

Jan 2003 2,450 Members

Jan 2004 4,501 Members

Jan 2005 6,115 Members

Jan 2006 8,136 Members

Jan 2007 10,205 Members

Today 11,175 Members

So since 2003 the membership at this site at multiplied 4 and half times.

Because of this I think the number should be 25 or less. Which is basically 1 per 500 members. Not many if you think about it.

Edited May 18, 2007 by homerwannabee

[+Wonder007]

Exactly, that's why we need to redefine the rarity values as time goes by!

 

It just doesn't feel right naming something a Holy Grail when more than 10 people own it.

 

Cheers,

Marco

 

I agree with Marco. Another thing, in terms of what Homerwannabee was saying, it is true that the community has grown but so did the population in California during the Gold Rush in the 1800's yet there was no four fold increase in gold discovered in the region. Moreover, some of the new members in the community establish AtariAge accounts to promote their items on e-bay or just to talk about Atari, it does not mean the # of carts will grow. Sure the population has grown four fold but I have not seen as four fold increase in carts like the Romox ECPC cart or even Video Life (where there were five or six discovered in 2003, that means there would have to be 25 or so). Thus, I think Marco's holy grail list (rating 10) is correct and needs to be evaluated periodically.

Edited May 19, 2007 by Wonder007

[Crazy Climber]

Maybe we should redefine R10 as being "less than 10 known to exist". The list would look something like this:

 

Air Raid

Birthday Mania

ECPC Cartridge

Gauntlet

Karate

Space Chase Monogrammed

 

These are the actual Holy Grails of Atari 2600 collecting, close to impossible to find.

 

 

Cheers,

Marco

I would argue to make it 50 known or less. Your list has left off some pretty highly regarded carts like Video Life and Atlantis II. Sides, as the years progress the more of even these carts will be found and almost no cart except maybe Birthday Mania will have less than 10.

I think that list looks about right but there are a few boxed holy grails

Pepsi Invaders with box - True rarity 10

Music Machine CIB - True Rarity 10

And yes Homerwannabee Atlantis 2 but only with it's original box and all docs, shirt, scuba set, etc.. of course

[Marco]

I agree, but as long as we're talking loose games, I think the above list is about right. We should make a separate list for boxes / boxed games.

 

Cheers,

Marco

[homerwannabee]

I think you guys maybe the only people on the whole site that agree with Marco. Step back for a minute. Do you really think Video Life, Atlantis II, Eli's Ladder, Magic Card, Pepsi Invaders are rarity 9 games. No freakin way. These games are not rarity 9 games and this is an insult to anyone that actually has these games to label them as rarity 9.

 

Also, Crazy Climber noone has what you said in regards to Atlantis II. I have a feeling that even the mystery guy dumped out some of the letters sent to him. I think I personally have the most documentation for an Atlantis II out there. If you don't think thats a holy grail then I highly disagree with you.

Edited May 19, 2007 by homerwannabee

[Marco]

Relax man, this is not personal. I don't have any of the R10s per the new definition, so I should be insulted as well? Are you less of a man / collector because some of your games are R9 in stead of R10? Of course not.

 

The R10s as I defined them are the Atari 2600 games that at this moment are close to impossible to find. That does not go for Pepsi Invaders, Atlantis II, Magicard, Eli's ladder, and even Video Life. If you are willing to cough up the cash, you will get them.

 

Think about it: what's nicer, the having or the yearning? If there's nothing left to yearn for, then collecting will be boring as hell.

 

Cheers,

Marco

[homerwannabee]

Relax man, this is not personal. I don't have any of the R10s per the new definition, so I should be insulted as well? Are you less of a man / collector because some of your games are R9 in stead of R10? Of course not.

 

The R10s as I defined them are the Atari 2600 games that at this moment are close to impossible to find. That does not go for Pepsi Invaders, Atlantis II, Magicard, Eli's ladder, and even Video Life. If you are willing to cough up the cash, you will get them.

 

Think about it: what's nicer, the having or the yearning? If there's nothing left to yearn for, then collecting will be boring as hell.

 

Cheers,

Marco

I still think your definition is too strict. I feel that if there was need to seperate these game's then make them a rarity 11 instead of demoting the others. Also one thing about the list. I am not too sure Gauntlet has less than 10 carts. Also one more thing. This would be the strictest diffenition of any hobby out there. As you might know Action Comics #1 is the holy grail of Comic books. But the fact remains that there are 75 of these comic books in existence today. The same thing applies to the Baseball card industry. The Honus Wagner Baseball card has been recognized as a holy grail of this hobby. There are about 45 to 50 known to exist. Also, trust me, even your Holy Grail games can be gotten. Wonder007 is only 4 carts away from having a complete collection. If he were to make insane offers for the last 4 carts he would get them. For instance if he were to say, "I will pay $5,000 for a ECPC cart, Karate cart, and a Space Chase Monogrammed cart." He would be able to get those carts. Also Air Raid has been appearing atleast once a year as of late, and Wonder has 2 of these carts. Also if I am not mistaken, someone was trying to sell a Gauntlet cart for quite awhile without any takers. Fact is if you have the money the only cart that would seem to be off limits at the moment would be Birthday Mania, and that is because only 1 or 2 people are known to have this cart.

Edit: Also one more thing. The gold NWC championship cart for the NES has 12 carts known to exist in collectors hands. I would love to see someone try to proclaim that this cart was not a holy grail cart.

Edited May 19, 2007 by homerwannabee

[+Wonder007]

In terms of single carts, yes I agree with Marco. Furthermore, like Marco said, if you really want the Atlantis II's and the Video Life's of the world, you CAN get them for a price, and I am not talking about "potato chip" money here. For me, I still am missing four of the seven proposed new rating 10's- Birthday Mania, ECPC Cart, Space Chase Monogrammed and Xante carts. I completed the other carts (the proposed nines), Atlantis II, Video Life's long before this post was posted.

 

Let me say this, a loose Birthday Mania is far more valuable than a complete Atlantis II at this point.

 

And, I don't think the word "insult" is correct in this context, I think the word "disagree" is better. When somebody says something in the forums that I do not agree with, I don't think of it as an insult, it is more of a disagreement. These are just opinions, nobody will ever fully agree with everything; when something doesn't go my way, it is not an insult, I disagree with it and move on.....or just let people say what they want.....I could care less.....one just needs to be secured of ones self........just my two cents.

 

DISCLAIMER: Remember, the above is just an OPINION, if you found it to be an "INSULT", oh well.....I guess we just have to shut down all of the forums and become communists or something

[Marco]

Homer,

 

I don't know any of the other hobbies you quote. I do know this hobby though, been in it for some 20 years. That experience is what I base my rarity system on. It says nothing about baseball cards. comic books or NES carts. This is Atari 2600 collecting, and I don't care much about other hobbies' ratings.

 

I've always found that wanting to have something is much more exciting than actually having it. That's why I still don't understand why you're so bothered if games would go from an R10 to an R9. They'd still be just as hard to find as they are now (incredibly hard, that is).

 

Cheers,

Marco

[Crazy Climber]

Relax man, this is not personal. I don't have any of the R10s per the new definition, so I should be insulted as well? Are you less of a man / collector because some of your games are R9 in stead of R10? Of course not.

 

The R10s as I defined them are the Atari 2600 games that at this moment are close to impossible to find. That does not go for Pepsi Invaders, Atlantis II, Magicard, Eli's ladder, and even Video Life. If you are willing to cough up the cash, you will get them.

 

Think about it: what's nicer, the having or the yearning? If there's nothing left to yearn for, then collecting will be boring as hell.

 

Cheers,

Marco

I still think your definition is too strict. I feel that if there was need to seperate these game's then make them a rarity 11 instead of demoting the others. Also one thing about the list. I am not too sure Gauntlet has less than 10 carts. Also one more thing. This would be the strictest diffenition of any hobby out there. As you might know Action Comics #1 is the holy grail of Comic books. But the fact remains that there are 75 of these comic books in existence today. The same thing applies to the Baseball card industry. The Honus Wagner Baseball card has been recognized as a holy grail of this hobby. There are about 45 to 50 known to exist. Also, trust me, even your Holy Grail games can be gotten. Wonder007 is only 4 carts away from having a complete collection. If he were to make insane offers for the last 4 carts he would get them. For instance if he were to say, "I will pay $5,000 for a ECPC cart, Karate cart, and a Space Chase Monogrammed cart." He would be able to get those carts. Also Air Raid has been appearing atleast once a year as of late, and Wonder has 2 of these carts. Also if I am not mistaken, someone was trying to sell a Gauntlet cart for quite awhile without any takers. Fact is if you have the money the only cart that would seem to be off limits at the moment would be Birthday Mania, and that is because only 1 or 2 people are known to have this cart.

Edit: Also one more thing. The gold NWC championship cart for the NES has 12 carts known to exist in collectors hands. I would love to see someone try to proclaim that this cart was not a holy grail cart.

I am pretty sure that there are only 3 or so Gauntlets out there with a label, and maybe 1 with a box...Marco? The one you are talking about was a PVV release. Thats basicly just the PCB in a blank Imagic case which is not all that desireable by collectors, still cool but not worth what MattG/SNYPER2099 was asking and not a rarity 10. I think he ended up Ebaying it and it went for a little under $300 but my memory might be a little off. A Gauntlet with a label is a true rarity 10, you just can't buy one and if you found it for sale it would be 3k loose.

[homerwannabee]

Well, you know my theory, everything else is rarity "not ultra rare"

 

If I had to make a list, it would look something like:

 

Atlantis II (Imagic)

BMX Airmaster (Atari)

Color Bar Generator (Videosoft)

Eli's Ladder (Simage)

Lochjaw (Apollo)

Magicard (Commavid)

Mangia (Spectravision)

Pepsi Invaders (Atari)

Sea Monster (Puzzy)

Space Tunnel (Puzzy)

Video Life (Commavid)

Xante cartridge (Xante)

 

 

Cheers,

Marco

 

I take it this is your rarity 9 list.

Homer,

 

I don't know any of the other hobbies you quote. I do know this hobby though, been in it for some 20 years. That experience is what I base my rarity system on. It says nothing about baseball cards. comic books or NES carts. This is Atari 2600 collecting, and I don't care much about other hobbies' ratings.

 

I've always found that wanting to have something is much more exciting than actually having it. That's why I still don't understand why you're so bothered if games would go from an R10 to an R9. They'd still be just as hard to find as they are now (incredibly hard, that is).

 

Cheers,

Marco

Why am I bothered by this. Maybe because I have 16 carts that are currently rarity 9 or higher. After this little revisionment, I would have only 2 carts rarity 9 or higher. Because with this system even a rarity 9 game becomes unatainable for many people. If you look at what Atariage defines as a rarity 10 cart, it says that this often makes up the showcase of a person's collection. It does not say something like this is often the showcase cart for all collectors in a state or country of 10 million people. Because for some reason now that because a cart has a whopping total of 12 or 18 carts it's no longer a rarity 10 cart is something that is very hard for me to swallow. Also the fact that you and Wonder have such large collections seems to make you both a little more skewed to lower the rarities of most games. You guys are both super hardcore collectors. This is not a rarity guide for the super hardcore collectors. This is a rarity guide for the average joe sixpack. For instance, a super rich person person would view a mercedes, cadillac, and lexus as something that they would not be caught dead driving. But the average person would love to own one of these cars and would consider them as uper class cars. Both of you are the super rich guys of the Atari 2600. What you guys see as nothing special is something that 98 percent of us would love to own.

Edited May 19, 2007 by homerwannabee

[Crazy Climber]

Well, you know my theory, everything else is rarity "not ultra rare"

 

If I had to make a list, it would look something like:

 

Atlantis II (Imagic)

BMX Airmaster (Atari)

Color Bar Generator (Videosoft)

Eli's Ladder (Simage)

Lochjaw (Apollo)

Magicard (Commavid)

Mangia (Spectravision)

Pepsi Invaders (Atari)

Sea Monster (Puzzy)

Space Tunnel (Puzzy)

Video Life (Commavid)

Xante cartridge (Xante)

 

 

Cheers,

Marco

 

I take it this is your rarity 9 list.

Homer,

 

I don't know any of the other hobbies you quote. I do know this hobby though, been in it for some 20 years. That experience is what I base my rarity system on. It says nothing about baseball cards. comic books or NES carts. This is Atari 2600 collecting, and I don't care much about other hobbies' ratings.

 

I've always found that wanting to have something is much more exciting than actually having it. That's why I still don't understand why you're so bothered if games would go from an R10 to an R9. They'd still be just as hard to find as they are now (incredibly hard, that is).

 

Cheers,

Marco

Why am I bothered by this. Maybe because I have 16 carts that are currently rarity 9 or higher. After this little revisionment, I would have only 2 carts rarity 9 or higher. Because with this system even a rarity 9 game becomes unatainable for many people. If you look at what Atariage defines as a rarity 10 cart, it says that this often makes up the showcase of a person's collection. It does not say something like this is often the showcase cart for all collectors in a state or country of 10 million people. Because for some reason now that because a cart has a whopping total of 12 or 18 carts it's no longer a rarity 10 cart is something that is very hard for me to swallow. Also the fact that you and Wonder have such large collections seems to make you both a little more skewed to lower the rarities of most games. You guys are both super hardcore collectors. This is not a rarity guide for the super hardcore collectors. This is a rarity guide for the average joe sixpack. For instance, a super rich person person would view a mercedes, cadillac, and lexus as something that they would not be caught dead driving. But the average person would love to own one of these cars and would consider them as uper class cars. Both of you are the super rich guys of the Atari 2600. What you guys see as nothing special is something that 98 percent of us would love to own.

I agree with them and I have no money I think the rarity does need to be lowered for a few. I only own one rarity 9 and it is Stronghold CIB, a game that probably should be a rarity 8 in all honesty. Doesn't bother me at all.